Moderators: Marcus, Duke4life831
CoreyVillains wrote:Just dropped the latest two film sessions I filmed with a couple of potential second round prospects.
HiDef wrote:Final top 10-
1. Wemby
2. Scoot Henderson
3. Mouhammed Gueye
4. Keyonte George
5. Amen Thompson
6. Cam Whitmore
7. Kobe Bufkin
8. Dereck Lively
9. Bilal Coulibaly
10. GG Jackson
Like Clyde said, **** trying to evaluate the Thompson twins.
Last player I had to get away from was Taylor Hendricks. Just a bit suspicious about his shot and his ability to contribute in the halfcourt.
Gueye is my guy. Future all-star and a next-level positionless freak.
DevinVassell wrote:Terrific, indepth article "Top 100 NBA Draft prospects for 2023: Tiers, final rankings and Big Board" from Sam Vecenie.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/theathletic.com/4606741/2023/06/14/nba-draft-2023-top-100-prospects-guide/%3famp=1
Please don't read if you are already a self proclaimed wannabe draft stormtrooping expert or are extremely worried about not thinking for yourself.
Password: Dr@ft2023
Big J wrote:HiDef wrote:Final top 10-
1. Wemby
2. Scoot Henderson
3. Mouhammed Gueye
4. Keyonte George
5. Amen Thompson
6. Cam Whitmore
7. Kobe Bufkin
8. Dereck Lively
9. Bilal Coulibaly
10. GG Jackson
Like Clyde said, **** trying to evaluate the Thompson twins.
Last player I had to get away from was Taylor Hendricks. Just a bit suspicious about his shot and his ability to contribute in the halfcourt.
Gueye is my guy. Future all-star and a next-level positionless freak.
Love that you didn’t just go chalk. When you look at how actual drafts pan out it looks a lot more like your list than most chalk big boards.
Duke4life831 wrote:I will drop a full loto board at some point before the draft. But right now my top 10 is
1. Wemby
2. Scoot
3. Black
4. Hendricks
5. Cam
6. Thompson twin #1
7. Thompson twin #2
(Ive been vocal about not liking the OTE comp/style of play at all. But I do think these guys are freakish athletes and have a hell of an athletic profile. If I was sitting at 6 or 7 I would take either one just based off of athletic profile alone. Just like how I was very high on Kuminga for the same reason. Truly freakish athletic profiles).
8. George
9. Walker
10. Bilal (mostly highlights but I like the athletic profile a lot).
I like to make little adjustments to my boards each year. Ive been pretty vocal about no longer including the raw athletic big men in my top 10s. So that is why there is no Lively. And the other thing Im doing is no longer putting up a prospect highish on my board just because of a consensus out there on him, even if I really dislike his game (looking back at guys like Culver who I was never high on at all, but I still put him like top 5 on my boards because of the high consensus for him).
Im off on the Miller train, finally went back on the old DVR and started to watch his games full. Im not sold he can be a consistent player in the NBA. I think he is going to struggle getting his shot off against NBA wings. Throw in his lack of athleticism and not a standout defender or facilitator. Ya I wouldnt spend a top 10 pick on him. I would spend a top 10 pick on a guy like Bilal over Miller, or at least trade down to get a guy like Bilal at 10, instead of spending a top 3-4 pick on Miller.
CptCrunch wrote:Duke4life831 wrote:I will drop a full loto board at some point before the draft. But right now my top 10 is
1. Wemby
2. Scoot
3. Black
4. Hendricks
5. Cam
6. Thompson twin #1
7. Thompson twin #2
(Ive been vocal about not liking the OTE comp/style of play at all. But I do think these guys are freakish athletes and have a hell of an athletic profile. If I was sitting at 6 or 7 I would take either one just based off of athletic profile alone. Just like how I was very high on Kuminga for the same reason. Truly freakish athletic profiles).
8. George
9. Walker
10. Bilal (mostly highlights but I like the athletic profile a lot).
I like to make little adjustments to my boards each year. Ive been pretty vocal about no longer including the raw athletic big men in my top 10s. So that is why there is no Lively. And the other thing Im doing is no longer putting up a prospect highish on my board just because of a consensus out there on him, even if I really dislike his game (looking back at guys like Culver who I was never high on at all, but I still put him like top 5 on my boards because of the high consensus for him).
Im off on the Miller train, finally went back on the old DVR and started to watch his games full. Im not sold he can be a consistent player in the NBA. I think he is going to struggle getting his shot off against NBA wings. Throw in his lack of athleticism and not a standout defender or facilitator. Ya I wouldnt spend a top 10 pick on him. I would spend a top 10 pick on a guy like Bilal over Miller, or at least trade down to get a guy like Bilal at 10, instead of spending a top 3-4 pick on Miller.
It's a bold take on Miller. And recall that KOC is the only who first championed the Miller agenda. And now ESPN is running some kind of interference for Miller over Scoot to drive views
You are right so if you don't fantasize about Miller becoming some Danny Granger/Paul George clone, then he offers little. Average athelete, +1 year aged, maybe an average defender, signifcant decrease in performance in the second half season. Don't mind me posting this OC showing how declined Miller's shooting was near the end of the season, give credence to the possibility that his mid-season shooting was some hot mirage.
azcatz11 wrote:Big J wrote:HiDef wrote:Final top 10-
1. Wemby
2. Scoot Henderson
3. Mouhammed Gueye
4. Keyonte George
5. Amen Thompson
6. Cam Whitmore
7. Kobe Bufkin
8. Dereck Lively
9. Bilal Coulibaly
10. GG Jackson
Like Clyde said, **** trying to evaluate the Thompson twins.
Last player I had to get away from was Taylor Hendricks. Just a bit suspicious about his shot and his ability to contribute in the halfcourt.
Gueye is my guy. Future all-star and a next-level positionless freak.
Love that you didn’t just go chalk. When you look at how actual drafts pan out it looks a lot more like your list than most chalk big boards.
Just curious but did you release your big board or is that not allowed given your position?
GSWFan1994 wrote:I'm not posting a big board or a mock this year as well. Too busy with work and other stuff.
However, I'd like to say a couple of things:
1. This draft seems really weak. Besides Wemby and Scoot, no other player has caught my eye. Of course some of those guys will develop over time and surprise us, but as of now, I don't see high end potential with the majority of the guys mocked in the lottery range. This might be the year I barely cared about following/studying/researching about the draft (as a whole, not only the top prospects) since I started following the NBA back in 1991.
2. Cam Whitmore seems to me like the one player with the higher probability of being a bust IMO. Besides his height which doesn't look to be 6'7'' (I know, we've had this discussion before...), like Mathurin before him, I see a wing who's very poor in passing and playmaking. This will limit his ceiling. A player with fantastic physical tools, good slasher skills and so so shooting, but with basically nothing else to offer... I don't know, he has to improve a lot to be able to contribute regularly to a winning team. I always say that if you want to be an elite wing in this league, you'd need to have above average ballhandling, passing and playmaking. The other aspects, the vast majority of the guys have in this level of competition. I understand that comes over time. I just think Whitmore is strongly behind his age range in this aspect. So I don't know, I'm really not impressed by what I've seen from him.
Chuck Everett wrote:Whitmore also has small hands. He could easily be another Justise Winslow. Some teams might wanna take a guy like Jordan Walsh, even though his ceiling is way lower, his floor is better.
GSWFan1994 wrote:I'm not posting a big board or a mock this year as well. Too busy with work and other stuff.
However, I'd like to say a couple of things:
1. This draft seems really weak. Besides Wemby and Scoot, no other player has caught my eye. Of course some of those guys will develop over time and surprise us, but as of now, I don't see high end potential with the majority of the guys mocked in the lottery range. This might be the year I barely cared about following/studying/researching about the draft (as a whole, not only the top prospects) since I started following the NBA back in 1991.
2. Cam Whitmore seems to me like the one player with the higher probability of being a bust IMO. Besides his height which doesn't look to be 6'7'' (I know, we've had this discussion before...), like Mathurin before him, I see a wing who's very poor in passing and playmaking. This will limit his ceiling. A player with fantastic physical tools, good slasher skills and so so shooting, but with basically nothing else to offer... I don't know, he has to improve a lot to be able to contribute regularly to a winning team. I always say that if you want to be an elite wing in this league, you'd need to have above average ballhandling, passing and playmaking. The other aspects, the vast majority of the guys have in this level of competition. I understand that comes over time. I just think Whitmore is strongly behind his age range in this aspect. So I don't know, I'm really not impressed by what I've seen from him.
BostonCouchGM wrote:uh oh, you're going to ruffle some feathers. I agree, Cam barely looks 6'5". He had a very disappointing season considering the hype entering the season. He could be closer to Okoro than Brown and that's why he can't be high lottery imho.
GSWFan1994 wrote:BostonCouchGM wrote:uh oh, you're going to ruffle some feathers. I agree, Cam barely looks 6'5". He had a very disappointing season considering the hype entering the season. He could be closer to Okoro than Brown and that's why he can't be high lottery imho.
Yes, the Okoro comp is valid and fits very well... Okoro has been really underwhelming so far. He barely improved so far.
He averages a 9.7 PER in 3 seasons in the NBA. Single digit PER for a former 5th pick. Can we label him a bust yet?
Now look at that: if you go to Okoro's page in College BBallRef, he's listed at 6'6''. Link.
But if you go to his NBA's page on BBallRef, he's listed at 6'5''. Link.
How about that? Which one should we trust? I'd rather trust my eyes, sir. Same thing with Whitmore, Mathurin and countless others.
clyde21 wrote:people comping Whitmore to Okoro like Okoro was a 2nd rounder or something...Okoro went 5th overall in his class (which he shouldn't have, I had him 12th iirc).
Whitmore is just in a different tier as an athlete compared to Okoro, also projects as a better shooter...these two things alone make him a much more valuable proposition than what Okoro was who was pushed up his class because it was a weak draft (same with Patrick Williams who also shouldn't have gone anywhere near the top 5).
GSWFan1994 wrote:Chuck Everett wrote:Whitmore also has small hands. He could easily be another Justise Winslow. Some teams might wanna take a guy like Jordan Walsh, even though his ceiling is way lower, his floor is better.
Winslow at least fooled at lot of people coming in from college because he shot 42% on 3s (along with 64% FT, which obviously was a red flag and translated to the NBA)...
... and was a legit 6'7'' guy who defended reasonably well and could even defend lots of 4s in the NBA.
Whitmore has had none of that (34% 3s, 70% FT). Ok, he was injured and improved throughout the college season, but still...
Plus, Whitmore had 19 assists in 709 minutes.
Is that a historically low number for wings picked in the lottery? How's the success rate for players in this scenario?
76ciology wrote:My final mock, ranked not based on how I think the draft will go BUT ranked on how good they’ll be in the league
06/18/23
1 Wembayama (once in a lifetime prospect)
2 Brandon Miller (likely star wing)
3 Brice Sensabaugh (superb 3 level scorer)
4 Scoot (likely star guard but cant shoot)
5 Brandin Podziemski (tyler herro to jalen brunson upside)
6 Taylor Hendricks (borderline star scorer with defense)
7 Kobe Bufkin (playmaking and shooting upside)
8 Jarace Walker (reminds me of Jerami Grant)
9 Bilal Coulilbaly (versatile wing who can shoot and play defense; could be higher if i got more sample size)
10 Jordan Hawkins (borderline star off ball scorer) defender potential.
11 Cam Whitmore (good foundation on offense with multi position .7apg is a redflag tho)
12 Gradey Dick (reliable 3&d with high IQ)
13 Amen Thompson (im not a fan of poor shooter)
14 Ausar Thompason (im not a fan of poor shooter)
15 Marcus Sasser (high production guard on both ends)
16 Leonard Miller (2 way forward)
17 Jaime Jacquez (versatile guard on both ends)
18 Keyonte George (scorer but inefficient)
19 Jett Howard (scorer + size)
20 Cason Wallace (not a fan of non scoring guards)
21 Trayce (reminds me of John Collins)
22 Kobe Brown (shooting + upside as multi position defender)
23 Adama Sagono (reminds me of big Al)
24 Kris Murray (twin of Keegan and he’s also productive)
25 Dereck Lively (upside as a starting big)
26 Noah Clowney (upside as a starting PF)
27 Terquavion Smith (i like his style of play but he needs to clean up his efficiency)
28 Anthony Black (not a fan, i dont like poor shooters or non scoring guard. I think he’s a forward masks as a guard)
29 Colby Jones (productive role playing backup guard)
30 Nick Smith Jr (upside)
deeps6x wrote:I guarantee you that (Jaylen) Brown and (Kris) Dunn are drafted OUT of the top 5.
