Top 5 Prospects for 2012 NBA Draft

[SWedd523]

more like they got their hands on the ball despite the pass. if a player throws an off-target pass, the blame is more on him over the player who could not catch the off-target pass. they were bad passes and harrison barnes needs to improve on his passing, period.

strickland will be back and he will be starting. out of he, hairston and bullock, he is the best 2ndary ball-handler and will be the best slasher on the team. rarely do you see players go from starting as a soph and junior to not starting as a senior. hairston and bullock are more suited to play the college 3 than mcadoo, as is tokoto in a back up capacity. the only size they will have next yr will be mcadoo and 2 raw, 4 star freshman.

I don't see how a pass that hits a target in both hands can be labelled off-target. But whatever works for you. Not really worth arguing over.

And I don't remember saying Strickland won't be starting. I simply stated that he shouldn't be. His only role on the team is to guard the other team's best perimeter player because Butter is a weak on ball defender. The sole reason anybody would consider Strickland the best secondary ball handler is due to the lack of a backup PG (other than Stillman). I would say Hairston is better with the ball in his hands, but Roy isn't going to give Strickland's spot to anybody else unless he keeps playing uninspired ball.

Also, while Bullock has the size to move over to SF, Hairston is a pure SG.

As for the size. You seem to be forgetting both Hubert and Simmons. Those two plus Brice and Joel James give Carolina plenty of size to where McAdoo isn't forced to play PF. He'll continue to play that tweener Marvin Williams role both this year and next (if he stays).

[Ruzious]

take guys off the dribble via what? advanced ball-handling skills (maybe pierce to a certain degree. but he's more of a clever, strong, triple threat guy who knows how to use his body) or explosive first step?
no. via the threat of the shot and knowing how to play out of the triple threat.

i think you guys are overselling his inability to put the ball on the floor. he's not just some stiff, station to station spot up shooter. he's improved his handle and is obviously making a concerted effort to put the ball on the floor, not settling for jumpers. will he ever be a player who'll dance with the ball and take his man off the bounce in that manner? no, probably never. there's too many of those type of players anyways, but i think he will be able to put the ball on the deck in at least the same manner that guys like deng, beasley and granger do.

Maybe we have a semantics issue here, because I agree with you that he'll likely be able to score in the same manner that Deng and Granger do. But... Deng and Granger are not good 1 on 1 players. They do not create their own offense. They need someone to set them up. A good 1 on 1 player can score when the offense breaks down - ala Kobe, MJ, etc. Those guys mentioned before don't do that - they need help from their teammates to score.

[ManualRam]

more like they got their hands on the ball despite the pass. if a player throws an off-target pass, the blame is more on him over the player who could not catch the off-target pass. they were bad passes and harrison barnes needs to improve on his passing, period.

strickland will be back and he will be starting. out of he, hairston and bullock, he is the best 2ndary ball-handler and will be the best slasher on the team. rarely do you see players go from starting as a soph and junior to not starting as a senior. hairston and bullock are more suited to play the college 3 than mcadoo, as is tokoto in a back up capacity. the only size they will have next yr will be mcadoo and 2 raw, 4 star freshman.

I don't see how a pass that hits a target in both hands can be labelled off-target. But whatever works for you. Not really worth arguing over.

And I don't remember saying Strickland won't be starting. I simply stated that he shouldn't be. His only role on the team is to guard the other team's best perimeter player because Butter is a weak on ball defender. The sole reason anybody would consider Strickland the best secondary ball handler is due to the lack of a backup PG (other than Stillman). I would say Hairston is better with the ball in his hands, but Roy isn't going to give Strickland's spot to anybody else unless he keeps playing uninspired ball.

Also, while Bullock has the size to move over to SF, Hairston is a pure SG.

As for the size. You seem to be forgetting both Hubert and Simmons. Those two plus Brice and Joel James give Carolina plenty of size to where McAdoo isn't forced to play PF. He'll continue to play that tweener Marvin Williams role both this year and next (if he stays).

just because the ball hits a player's hands doesnt mean it was on target. the pass on the fast break was behind and low. the post pass was a bad angle pass that pulled henson off the block. bottom line, they were bad passes and are an example of why harrison needs to improve his passing.

if kendall leaves, which is a possibility, and marcus paige is the starting PG, out of bullock, hairston, mcdonald and strickland, who is the best ball-handler? strickland.
hairston is not a good ball-handler. all he can do is straight line drives.
hairston at the college level is not a pure SG. he is a wing who has the strength and size to check college SFs. in order to be a backcourt mate in college, you have to be a better ball-handler than hairston is.

and no im not forgetting hubert and simmons. who knows if hubert will be physically ready to play college ball by next yr? he might be able to play at his size if he had some skill, but he has none. i see him as more of a 9th-10th, minimal minute guy. simmons isnt even worth mentioning.

[ManualRam]

take guys off the dribble via what? advanced ball-handling skills (maybe pierce to a certain degree. but he's more of a clever, strong, triple threat guy who knows how to use his body) or explosive first step?
no. via the threat of the shot and knowing how to play out of the triple threat.

i think you guys are overselling his inability to put the ball on the floor. he's not just some stiff, station to station spot up shooter. he's improved his handle and is obviously making a concerted effort to put the ball on the floor, not settling for jumpers. will he ever be a player who'll dance with the ball and take his man off the bounce in that manner? no, probably never. there's too many of those type of players anyways, but i think he will be able to put the ball on the deck in at least the same manner that guys like deng, beasley and granger do.

Maybe we have a semantics issue here, because I agree with you that he'll likely be able to score in the same manner that Deng and Granger do. But... Deng and Granger are not good 1 on 1 players. They do not create their own offense. They need someone to set them up. A good 1 on 1 player can score when the offense breaks down - ala Kobe, MJ, etc. Those guys mentioned before don't do that - they need help from their teammates to score.

granger actually does, deng not so much. you need 1 on 1 ability to score from the mid post extended. it's not like wade or kobe getting the ball 3 pt line extended and going to work, but scoring from the face up, triple threat position is an aspect of 1 on 1 scoring.

[Ruzious]

Maybe we have a semantics issue here, because I agree with you that he'll likely be able to score in the same manner that Deng and Granger do. But... Deng and Granger are not good 1 on 1 players. They do not create their own offense. They need someone to set them up. A good 1 on 1 player can score when the offense breaks down - ala Kobe, MJ, etc. Those guys mentioned before don't do that - they need help from their teammates to score.

granger actually does, deng not so much. you need 1 on 1 ability to score from the mid post extended. it's not like wade or kobe getting the ball 3 pt line extended and going to work, but scoring from the face up, triple threat position is an aspect of 1 on 1 scoring.

Ultimately in the NBA, if you can't drive, you're not going to be an efficient scorer from the triple threat position. As with pretty much every rule, there may be an exception or 2.

[ManualRam]

Maybe we have a semantics issue here, because I agree with you that he'll likely be able to score in the same manner that Deng and Granger do. But... Deng and Granger are not good 1 on 1 players. They do not create their own offense. They need someone to set them up. A good 1 on 1 player can score when the offense breaks down - ala Kobe, MJ, etc. Those guys mentioned before don't do that - they need help from their teammates to score.

granger actually does, deng not so much. you need 1 on 1 ability to score from the mid post extended. it's not like wade or kobe getting the ball 3 pt line extended and going to work, but scoring from the face up, triple threat position is an aspect of 1 on 1 scoring.

Ultimately in the NBA, if you can't drive, you're not going to be an efficient scorer from the triple threat position. As with pretty much every rule, there may be an exception or 2.

how so? when a player scores from the mid-post extended from the triple threat, it's not about the ability to handle the ball. its about creating space, footwork, utilizing fakes, the threat of the shot to get the defender off-balance and the ability to get your shot over shot contests. think about old jordan when he came back. kobe now that he's lost a step. larry bird or KD from the mid post, bernard king, alex english, paul pierce...lesser names like glenn robinson, michael finley, peja, kiki vandeweghe, sam cassell were killers from that area without being great off the bounce or having great first steps.

again, 1 on 1 play isnt just about taking someone off the dribble 30 feet extended. i'll stop right there though since this isnt even about barnes anymore.

[boogie-reke]

I really like this Quincy Miller kid, first time I see him play.

Can def see why he's ranked so high, that kid got a crazy high NBA potential if he works his ass off.

He didn't show too much in this game so far granted, but at a first glance you can immidietly see why theres hype around this kids potential.

[Kaner]

Not sure if it's just me or not, but Miller's lateral quickness on wing defense looks pretty poor.

[Jazzfan12]

What's impressed me is how smart Miller is. He constantly helping the helper on defense and finding open guys and has a sense for where rebounds are going.

[boogie-reke]

What I liked the most frankly is his attitude and feistiness on the court. ofcourse it needs to be kept under controll and not be too much - but this kid WANTS to win.. thats the most crystal clear thing I could take from him, even after 5 minutes of play.

I assume that attitude and will translates and drives him while training too, which is what I was hyped up the most frankly.

I mean theres alot of talented guys out there. it's the attitude, mentality and will that seperates them - and to be so far in this game it's crystal clear he has that star mentality down the line having that desire to win.

[DetroitPistons]

I love quincy miller. he is very smart and has very few holes in his game. his passing has been way better than advertised and hes making the right play every time he touches the ball. baylor needs to give him the green light because hes probably already their best player.

[sipclip]

Quincy Miller looked tall out there today. He looks like a legit 6'10" in shoes to me. From an athletic standpoint I still don't think he has recovered from his knee injury but he is so big and skilled that he does not need to be a freak athlete to be a great player. I would say that he looks to be the exact same size as Kevin Durant right now but his frame can put on muscle a hell of a lot easier than Durant can.

[vincecarter4pres]

Not sure if it's just me or not, but Miller's lateral quickness on wing defense looks pretty poor.

Thought the same myself.

Al Harrington came to mind.

[boogie-reke]

Quincy Miller looked tall out there today. He looks like a legit 6'10" in shoes to me. From an athletic standpoint I still don't think he has recovered from his knee injury but he is so big and skilled that he does not need to be a freak athlete to be a great player. I would say that he looks to be the exact same size as Kevin Durant right now but his frame can put on muscle a hell of a lot easier than Durant can.

I got the exact same vibe, didn't wanna say him next to Durant - but he gave a Durant vibe in how he looked, with the wingspan and all.

[ManualRam]

quincy's got great footwork and really knows how to use fakes. that'll make up for his lack of foot speed and explosiveness on offense. on defense is another story. i think he'll be a turnstile on that end.


he's definitely worked on raising his release point as well. jumper looks good.

[7-Day Dray]

I still don't think Miller is fully recovered from his knee injury. I also noticed his poor lateral quickness, and he looked slow running the floor. Maybe he was always like that (never watched him in HS), but I don't think he was this slow before the injury. I think he'll look quicker and more explosive after the season.

[ManualRam]

miller was never known for his quickness or explosiveness.

[RipCity71252]

Only got to catch the first half but watching Quincy reminded me of current KG in just the way he moved around the floor.

He was limply slightly also. Despite what he might say, I think he clearly isn't 100%.

[Ruzious]

granger actually does, deng not so much. you need 1 on 1 ability to score from the mid post extended. it's not like wade or kobe getting the ball 3 pt line extended and going to work, but scoring from the face up, triple threat position is an aspect of 1 on 1 scoring.

Ultimately in the NBA, if you can't drive, you're not going to be an efficient scorer from the triple threat position. As with pretty much every rule, there may be an exception or 2.

how so? when a player scores from the mid-post extended from the triple threat, it's not about the ability to handle the ball. its about creating space, footwork, utilizing fakes, the threat of the shot to get the defender off-balance and the ability to get your shot over shot contests. think about old jordan when he came back. kobe now that he's lost a step. larry bird or KD from the mid post, bernard king, alex english, paul pierce...lesser names like glenn robinson, michael finley, peja, kiki vandeweghe, sam cassell were killers from that area without being great off the bounce or having great first steps.

again, 1 on 1 play isnt just about taking someone off the dribble 30 feet extended. i'll stop right there though since this isnt even about barnes anymore.

Ok, this is the last time I'll chime in on this, because obviously we're not going to agree. The triple threat position is called triple threat because there are 3 threats - shooting, passing, and driving. Without the threat of driving, you lose one of the 3 threats, and against top competition - generally speaking - you're not going to be efficient.

[ManualRam]

Ultimately in the NBA, if you can't drive, you're not going to be an efficient scorer from the triple threat position. As with pretty much every rule, there may be an exception or 2.

how so? when a player scores from the mid-post extended from the triple threat, it's not about the ability to handle the ball. its about creating space, footwork, utilizing fakes, the threat of the shot to get the defender off-balance and the ability to get your shot over shot contests. think about old jordan when he came back. kobe now that he's lost a step. larry bird or KD from the mid post, bernard king, alex english, paul pierce...lesser names like glenn robinson, michael finley, peja, kiki vandeweghe, sam cassell were killers from that area without being great off the bounce or having great first steps.

again, 1 on 1 play isnt just about taking someone off the dribble 30 feet extended. i'll stop right there though since this isnt even about barnes anymore.

Ok, this is the last time I'll chime in on this, because obviously we're not going to agree. The triple threat position is called triple threat because there are 3 threats - shooting, passing, and driving. Without the threat of driving, you lose one of the 3 threats, and against top competition - generally speaking - you're not going to be efficient.

the threat of the shot enables certain players (such as the players i've already mentioned, who lack great ball-handling ability and/or a great first step) to become better drivers than they really are, especially if the player is a good enough shooter to be played tight. you still need the knowledge to use fakes, jab steps and have the ability to raise up and shoot over the shot contest from that position.

take glenn robinson for example
scenario #1: shot clock is winding down and glenn chases the ball 3 pt line extended and he already starts his dribble.
scenario #2: shot clock is winding down and glenn receives the ball 18-20 ft from the hoop and is able to to work from the face up, triple threat position.

robinson would have a greater chance of scoring 1 on 1 in scenario #2 much more so than in scenario #1 because of his ability to score from the triple threat.