Luka Doncic

[XTraderXL]

Llull will apparently play tonight but in the last game on Tuesday vs Baskonia it was obvious that injury is still bothering him...

[reanimator]

Are people confident Doncic can be a volume scorer in the NBA? I'm not which is why I see a high end utility guy until he gets bigger or more explosive.

[SportsGuy8]

Are people confident Doncic can be a volume scorer in the NBA? I'm not which is why I see a high end utility guy until he gets bigger or more explosive.

Even if he reaches that level physically (I doubt that also), I don't think he has the mentality for it in the first place. You need to be a special type of person to jack up that many shots. I assume that for "volume scorer" you mean getting close to 20 shots per game.

It's really too early to tell, though, because he's still holding back a bit at Real Madrid. Being a 17-year-old kid playing on a top team full of veterans ... he simply has to pick his spots. Maybe if he keeps progressing we're going to see him unleashed next year, although unlikely, especially with Llull on the team.

Even with his passing he's holding back ever since he was promoted to Real Madrid's A team, understandably so. Limiting turnovers/mistakes is the key in such situation, established veterans have much more leeway.

He obviously has his (physical) limits, though, probably preventing him from ever being a truly sick scorer. If he's going to end up being a star, his game is going to have to be extremely well-rounded. He does have special passing and surprisingly even rebounding abilities, already making him very well-rounded.

[DaddyCool19]

Does he even have to be a volume scorer? If he is truly 6'8-6'9 tall or ends up at that height can't he be a Hedo Turkoglu type of guy who can shoot, pass, handle the ball and plays a point forward role on his team? Hedo wasn't the most athletic guy and he had some nice years next to Dwight in Orlando.

I think Hedo was listed as 6'10 but there is no way he was that tall. At best he was 6'9 in shoes as he always looked slightly shorter/smaller than Ersan on our national team who was listed as 6'7,75 without at the NBA pre draft camp in 2005.

[UcanUwill]

amongst all Euroleague-ers

40th. in points per 36 minutes - 16.5 (first is Keith Langford with 25.3, Llull is second with 22.1)
12th. in assists per 36 minutes - 6.9 (first is Teodosic with 9.2, second is Spanoulis with 8.6)
32nd. in rebounds per 36 minutes - 7.3 (the only non frontcourt player that is better is 6'9 K. Papanikolaou with 7.7)
21st. in TS% - 64.8% (better than guys like Khem Birch, Kyle Hines, Milos Teodosic or Paulius Jankunas)
24th. in PER - 20.0 (first is Artsiom Parakhouski with 25.4, Llull is 18th. with 20.4)

[No-Man]

He is the de-facto 2nd banana for Llull already.

[Mirotic12]

Draft sites are notoriously laughable. If you are actually admitting that you are getting your information and basing opinion off of their mocks than you sir are not worth my time from here on out. They have Isaac above Giles? Euro stiffs above Rabb, Adebayo, and Ferguson? OMG. I promise you...if Doncis measures at 6'7" and his growth plates do not indicate he'll reach 6'9" plus...he will not sniff the top 3. I would say I'll remind you of your folly come draft night but again..draftexpress quoter..not worth my time. Good day to you sir

He's supposedly 6-6 3/4 barefoot, and 6-8 with shoes on. But the idea that he would somehow be higher or lower in the draft based on being 6-7 or 6-8 is ridiculous. Whether he is 6-7 or 6-8 is totally meaningless, based on what position he will play and what kind of game he has. It means absolutely zero and nothing, whether he is 6-7 in shoes or 6-8 in shoes to his draft status.

Now, the claims he was 6-9 to 6-11, that just wan't serious (he's clearly nowhere at that height), so he's in no way ever going to be a PF or anything like that. 6-7 or 6-8 will mean absolutely zero to his draft status.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2018/
upadate 5.1.2017: draftexpress has him at no.2 and at 6'8'' (203cm)

I don't know about the height being for sure right (he looks to 6-7 to 6-8 in shoes), or the draft position (#2), but I for sure guarantee you that draftexpress.com is ridiculously off and in almost an absurd error to have him listed at 185 pounds....

As usual, these kinds of ridiculous mistakes by draftexpress with European players make then seem so amateurish when it comes to non American players.

Anyone can see that Doncic is like 35-40 pounds heavier than that.

[reanimator]

Does he even have to be a volume scorer? If he is truly 6'8-6'9 tall or ends up at that height can't he be a Hedo Turkoglu type of guy who can shoot, pass, handle the ball and plays a point forward role on his team? Hedo wasn't the most athletic guy and he had some nice years next to Dwight in Orlando.

I think Hedo was listed as 6'10 but there is no way he was that tall. At best he was 6'9 in shoes as he always looked slightly shorter/smaller than Ersan on our national team who was listed as 6'7,75 without at the NBA pre draft camp in 2005.

Kind of what I am getting at though I think Doncic is a better athlete than Hedo and should be a starter level defender however.

[Mirotic12]

Even tho I share some of your skepticism, I think you really underrate what Doncic is capable of. 17 year old being one of the best players on a top 5 Euro team is pretty unprecedented, his skills are so advanced for his age is crazy. Americans his age are still in highschool for hell sake, and I can guarantee you than no other 17 year in the world right now, couldn't do the things Doncic does in the Euroleague. Other Euros like Hartenstein, Bender, Hezonja couldn't sniff any playing time on worse Euroleague teams, and they still were (or will) high lotto picks. Doncic is not only promising, he is outplaying top Euro competition at age 17.

I think one of the big problems with this kind of thinking some American NBA fans have about EuroLegaue, is all the endless fake hype and marketing schemes USA media and NBA do about some European players. I mean, they endlessly bragged about Rubio being the best player in Europe as a teenager (actually, at 19-20 he was the worst rotation player on his team), they endlessly claimed Saric was the best player in Europe, before and after he got drafted (reality - he was never even one of the best fours in EuroLeague), they claimed someone like Hezonja was a superstar in Europe (when actually he was barely able to stay in his team's rotation), there are many, many more such similar examples.

Ones that are far more egregious also. USA media and NBA marketing love to claim that guys drafted from Europe, that were playing in youth leagues, or minor leagues were "stars in Europe". They also love to claim almost every guy that ever played in Europe and came to the NBA was some kind of "EuroLeague MVP"....I swear, a player could have been the MVP of the Hungarian league, and the in game NBA announcers would call him "a former EuroLeague MVP".

In game announcers and US sports media said it so many times that Luis Scola was EuroLeague MVP (untrue), Nikola Mirotic was a EuroLeague MVP (untrue), etc., etc. that it causes a real distortion of how American NBA fans that never have seen the EuroLeague view it.

It seems to be a general opinion among most American NBA fans that truly every European player that gets drafted was some kind of EuroLeague star, when actually most of them are playing in youth levels or minor leagues, and the ones playing in EuroLeague are almost all role players, and none of them are "stars".

It's like they view EuroLeague the same as NCAA college basketball - if you were drafted, you must have been "a star". But it's nothing like that at all.

I think this is why so many American NBA fans see someone like Doncic playing in a rotation in a big EuroLeague team as the age of a high school senior, and having decent numbers, and they just take that as totally unimpressive, something that has been done numerous times, something any top level college player or even US high school player could do, and something that Rubio and blah blah blah did before.

They just take USA sports media, NBA in game announcers, and NBA marketing talking points about the game in Europe as their basis of fact, without realizing none of that stuff is actually true. You can see it every time a discussion about EuroLeague comes up. A lot of NBA fans just don't take anything about EuroLeague seriously, and view it as some kind of a joke minor league, where the best NCAA teams would always win the championship, or where your average D-League player would be a "EuroLeague star".

With these kind of totally fake preconceived notions and without ever actually watching EuroLeague, it's never going to be seen as anything worthy or legit, that any player ever does in EuroLeague. It comes up all the time in EuroLeague discussions, where plenty of people make claims about how the worst players in the NBA, good D-League players, top NCAA players would all be EuroLeague MVP, EuroLeague Top Scorer, EuroLeague final MVP, EuroLeague champion, etc. (that's actually pretty much a zero percent chance in reality, as it's never actually happened before)......but so many NBA fans judge anything done in EuroLeague through this point of view.

Does he even have to be a volume scorer? If he is truly 6'8-6'9 tall or ends up at that height can't he be a Hedo Turkoglu type of guy who can shoot, pass, handle the ball and plays a point forward role on his team? Hedo wasn't the most athletic guy and he had some nice years next to Dwight in Orlando.

I think Hedo was listed as 6'10 but there is no way he was that tall. At best he was 6'9 in shoes as he always looked slightly shorter/smaller than Ersan on our national team who was listed as 6'7,75 without at the NBA pre draft camp in 2005.

Let's please not start the 6-9 or over height thing again. His team says he 6-6 3/4 without shoes and 6-8 with shoes. He looks no taller than that, and he actually looks shorter than his teammate Othello Hunter, who the NBA listed at 6-8. He's maybe 6-8 in shoes right now, he's absolutely for sure not 6-9. We can't keep arguing about his height being that tall, when it clearly isn't.

[UcanUwill]

Trust me Mirotic12, that pisses me off as well. US media is so ignorant about Euro hops its crazy. And it creates ignorant fans. Like that guy selfishplayer till this day probably believes D - league is the second strongest league in the world, cause Euro leagues can't buy Americans or smth LOL. I remember how shocked he was when he realized that Porzingis is not playing in Euroleague, but is competing in second tier Eurocup competition. The fact that hes not a Euroleague superstar probably blew his mind.

Media never even fact check which pisses me off. I remember when Barca beat Lakers, NBA.com was giving Barca credit, while calling them Spanish league champions at the same time, even tho they weren't even Spanish champions, Baskonia was. Its a very minor thing, but it shows their mindset as a whole. - Oh, that team is good, they got a game against NBA team, so they must be the champions. Oh, this Euro player got to the NBA, so that means he dominated Europe.

That being said though, you got to look from their perspective. They don't care who is good in Europe, its completely irrelevant to them, they only care who can play in the NBA. Ricky Rubio was pretty average player on Barcelona (I think he was better than you claim he was, but thats beside the point) playing Euro ball, but it was obvious he is more suited for NBA ball than most of his teammates. And that is what knowledgeable NBA media members are saying. They use wrong words most of the time, but thats what they really mean.
They also loves to turn every minor MVP trophy into ''Euroleague MVP''. I seriously question if some of these people in the NBA are even aware that Europe has more than one league...

[UcanUwill]

But whatever, these rants are not interesting to anyone. Real Madrid got a win. My Internet stopped working for some reason, so I missed the 4th quarter. Doncic had a nice statline, but I didn't come away that impressed this time. Game itself was great, very high level competition, I was watching Zalgiris prior to this, man what an upgrade from that.
So I am definitely impressed Doncic is capable of being productive at this level at all, but that being said, what he excels at? He just does things at ok level, but lacks that killer signature role/skill/whatever.

[Mirotic12]

They also loves to turn every minor MVP trophy into ''Euroleague MVP''. I seriously question if some of these people in the NBA are even aware that Europe has more than one league...

That's the funniest one to me....any player that ever won an MVP in any league in Europe, becomes a "former EuroLeague MVP" upon entering the NBA. Even guys that were MVP of youth tournaments, or friendly exhibition national team tournaments (not even real ones) will get called EuroLeague MVP.

You would think the announcers or media writers would at some point after so many years of saying this, start to wonder, like wait a minute, how can there be so many EuroLeague MVPs?

You would think they would start to wonder how the NBA could have like 15 or more "EuroLeague MVPs" at any given time. Simple logic should dictate that's impossible, but they just say it over and over.

The craziest one for me though was during the NBA Finals how they kept saying that stat that David Blatt was a 16 time EuroLeague champion.........evidently, they counted all national league titles, all national cups, all national super cups, regional league titles, national teams, whatever and added them together. Then claimed Blatt was a 16 time EuroLeague champion, as if the Israeli League or cup, or Russian league or cup, or whatever is just the same as EuroLeague.

So think about that for a second...American sports fans would be watching the finals and see "Blatt is a 16 time EuroLeague champion"....and then they would base their view on the level of EuroLeague from that. EuroLeague level = where a coach like David Blatt was a 16 time EuroLeague champion....oh, yeah minor rec league status confirmed.

In reality, David Blatt won a grant total of one EuroLeague championship. 1, not 16. But I honestly wonder if the people that claimed that during the finals were even aware of it, that they could even grasp as you said, that there are dozens of leagues in Europe. Instead they seem to think everything is "EuroLeague". It's really odd, when you consider that the US sports media has no problem getting all the football (soccer) league systems down pat.

But whatever, these rants are not interesting to anyone. Real Madrid got a win. My Internet stopped working for some reason, so I missed the 4th quarter. Doncic had a nice statline, but I didn't come away that impressed this time. Game itself was great, very high level competition, I was watching Zalgiris prior to this, man what an upgrade from that.
So I am definitely impressed Doncic is capable of being productive at this level at all, but that being said, what he excels at? He just does things at ok level, but lacks that killer signature role/skill/whatever.

I only watched the 2nd half of the Real - CSKA game. I was watching Olympiacos and Panathinaikos. Anyway, the 2nd half of the game was great. It was a really good game.

What I remember most -

Llull is once again taking way too many crazy shots for a team that wants to be serious about winning titles. He takes more heat checks in a game than most players do in a season.

Rudy had an air ball on a wide open 3 pointer that missed the backboard by like 5 feet. That was a bit crazy to see.

As far as Doncic goes...he basically belongs on the court, or fits in with any of the other rotation players of a Real or CSKA. Basically, yeah, at that level, he's just another average guy. But being just another average guy at that level is impressive, and for his age in the obvious way that most players in those teams would instantly be the best player in most EuroCup teams for example.

So it's certainly extremely hard to look like you fit in during such games, even if you are fairly average compared to the other players. I bet Doncic would get more hype if he was playing in EuroCup like Porzingis was, because he would most likely be the best player on a lot of EuroCup teams.

[a3r0d]

Guys this discussion is nice, but let's keep it about the player in these threads ok? Anyone saw the game today? I haven't managed to watch it, but it seems today he didn't start against CSKA. Still seems to have had a nice game, although the free throws being 3/6 are a bit out of the ordinary.

[Mirotic12]

Guys this discussion is nice, but let's keep it about the player in these threads ok? Anyone saw the game today? I haven't managed to watch it, but it seems today he didn't start against CSKA. Still seems to have had a nice game, although the free throws being 3/6 are a bit out of the ordinary.

As I have said here so many times, starting and coming off the bench is meaningless and irrelevant in European basketball. The worst player on the team can start every game, and the best player on the team can come off the bench all season. They simply don't care about a caste system of starters and bench. So it does not matter to Doncic, or any other player in Europe, whether they started a game or not.

[a3r0d]

But whatever, these rants are not interesting to anyone. Real Madrid got a win. My Internet stopped working for some reason, so I missed the 4th quarter. Doncic had a nice statline, but I didn't come away that impressed this time. Game itself was great, very high level competition, I was watching Zalgiris prior to this, man what an upgrade from that.
So I am definitely impressed Doncic is capable of being productive at this level at all, but that being said, what he excels at? He just does things at ok level, but lacks that killer signature role/skill/whatever.

Well the thing is, Real Madrids is is not in the business of showcasing Doncic's skills, they're in the business of winning games. And when Lull is healthy and can play, he is their nr.1 offensive option/ballhandler, thus Luka has to take a more passive approach, and that is totally ok, because it shows that he can contribute even when he doesn't have the ball in his hands all the time.
When Llull was missing and Doncic has been asked to produce more, he did produce more. In the games in the previous weeks he showcased his great shooting touch, passing, body control around the basket ( often seeks contact on the offensive end), great rebounding for a backcourt player and clutchness. His dribbling prowess is not by any means bad, but he can still improve that part of his game plenty. I guess his signature moves at this moment are his behind the back dribbles, his stepback threes. Also his defense is not bad at all, Laso likes to stick him on important defensive assignments.

[Mirotic12]

Well the thing is, Real Madrids is is not in the business of showcasing Doncic's skills, they're in the business of winning games. And when Lull is healthy and can play, he is their nr.1 offensive option/ballhandler, thus Luka has to take a more passive approach, and that is totally ok, because it shows that he can contribute even when he doesn't have the ball in his hands all the time.
When Llull was missing and Doncic has been asked to produce more, he did produce more. In the games in the previous weeks he showcased his great shooting touch, passing, body control around the basket ( often seeks contact on the offensive end), great rebounding for a backcourt player and clutchness . His dribbling prowess is not by any means bad, but he can still improve that part of his game plenty. I guess his signature moves at this moment are his behind the back dribbles, his stepback threes.

But the thing is, Real Madrid is the single most point guard dominant offensive system and team in all of European basketball. Doncic is in the absolute perfect situation of any team in Europe, as far as that goes. No other team in Europe is even remotely close to as point guard dominant as Real is. And it has nothing to do with Llull and Doncic. They always played like that ever since Laso became their coach, and regardless of who is at point guard.

As far as getting touches, handling the ball, being able to make decisions, useage...Doncic could not possibly be in a better situation. In some EuroLeague teams he would be asked to handle the ball a ton and without hardly any play making, or he would be asked to set screens, or he would be asked to dump the ball to the post a lot, or whatever.

In terms of being showcased while in a game, no good team in Europe (not even ones in lower levels) are going to showcase him as much as Real is. He's in the super super point guard friendly offense probably in the history of European club basketball.

CSKA would be the second most point guard dominant team in EuroLeague, and even their system isn't nearly as dependent on the point guard as Real's is.

[Sports Geek]

Let's point some facts out. I think some users should watch more games of him before making some comments, not just watching a couple highlights videos (he is not athletic enough, he can have a just decent career, Euroleague sucks,...).

- He is playing the PG position at 6'7" (without shoes).

- He is able to switch defenders with all 5 players at Euroleague level. He can defend smaller guards and bigger players. Pro veteran players. Tell me another player in Euroleague able to do so.

- He is playing for a team where losing two games in a row is a tragedy.

- He has been already MVP of the week in the Spanish league.

- He has been already MVP of the week in the Euroleague. Youngest player EVER to acomplish it.

- He has been the go to guy in several games. He was clutch and Real Madrid won games because of his leadership.

- As another user said, his Euroleague percentages are: 46'8% FG, 52'8% 2 pointers, 41'9% 3 pointers, 90'3% FT.

- Every game he plays, he seems to have improved a bit more. He is shooting faster and with more accuracy (specially after dribble, it is amazing how easy he can create shots for himself now), having less problems when the opposite teams puts pressure on him (in fact they don't do it anymore, no more full court pressure on him, it became useless) and has (undoubtfully) the best court awareness in his team. No need to mention he is able to control the tempo of the game.

- HE IS 17 Y.O.

Here comes my opinion:

- He is already the best player in Real Madrid. Not consistant enough, he still have "bad games", but the deeper we go into the season the rarer are the games he is not extremely important for Real Madrid.

- I have never seen something like this in Europe (that's why I opened this thread). Ricky Rubio was terrific too, but he had to improve his shooting motion (I thought he would and become a star, but he wasn't able). Doncic has nothing to improve so drastically.

- I think his ceiling is more on Petrovic, Sabonis, Gasol or Nowitzki level. I don't mean to disrespect Turkoglu, Mirotic or Gallinari's talent, but I think Luka will be closer to the other group. Time will tell.

PS: I watched every single game he played for Real Madrid.

Game tied with less than 2 minutes left in the 4th quarter. Doncic scores 8 points to beat Zalguiris Kaunas. Creating his own shots. In Euroleague. For Real Madrid. At 17:

Watch on YouTube

[UcanUwill]

What do guys think about this comparison. Evan Turner with a better shot?

[SportsGuy8]

... and has (undoubtfully) the best court awareness in his team. No need to mention he is able to control the tempo of the game.

...

- He is already the best player in Real Madrid. Not consistant enough, he still have "bad games", but the deeper we go into the season the rarer are the games he is not extremely important for Real Madrid.

...

This is the main reason why I'm high on him. There's just something special about him, something that's hard to describe. His feel for the game already seems off the charts, he already often appears to be the wisest player on the court, playing like a savvy veteran.

Llull, for example, is obviously a giant force, an amazing player, the better player right now, but Doncic already seems to be ahead of him when it comes to things like court awareness that you mentioned, the feel for the game, the little things ... Doncic simply seems to have an understanding for the game that's above most other players, even most stars.

He's basically the opposite of Hezonja in that regard. And many other athletically gifted players that ended up disappointing everyone.

What do guys think about this comparison. Evan Turner with a better shot?

That actually sounds like a nice comparison. Better passing also, though. And the above-mentioned little things, although Turner is decent at that also.

[Kentavicius]

Watch on YouTube

He guarded Teodosic and De Colo quite well. Very solid overall.