Who's better: Josh Jackson or Andrew Wiggins?

[Duke4life831]

So now we're comparing a prototypical generational talent in KAT to Wiggins?

Yes, Jackson does do more things better. But he's also more than a year older at the same stage as Wiggins was. It's huge. I thought the discussion was who was the better prospect coming out of college. Meaning, who is going to have more success in their prime years from 24-32 y/o and be a better pro, is how I tackled it. I think Wiggins will which is why I feel he was a better prospect. Maybe I confused the question. Jackson was the better player coming out of college but imo not the better prospect if that makes sense. It's similar to the Brown or Jackson question. Jackson is the better player coming out but I think it'll be very close who is the better prospect and believe they'll have extremely close NBA careers as far as production.

Lets just assume Wiggins stayed another year at KU. I dont get why you automatically think Wiggins would show to be the same level of a defender/rebounder/facilitator and as efficient of a scorer from the field as Jackson showed this past year. Wiggins has never showed ever to be a good defender/rebounder or facilitator, so I dont get why you just assume he all of a sudden would be good at those things. Jackson has always shown to be a really good defender/rebounder and facilitator, those aspects have always been apart of his game.

This is why people like myself, I believe Marcus and others thought Jackson was the better prospect even before this season started. We have already seen enough of Jackson to know he had such a more well rounded game than Wiggins at the same age.

it's recency (or just plain) bias. Wiggins was a very good defender in college. You're just plain wrong. Maybe stop spreading nonsense like that as it doesn't help you.

Per 40 Jackson:
rpg apg spg bpg to pf ppg
9.6 3.9 2.2 1.4 3.6 3.9 21.2

Per 40 Wiggins:
rpg apg spg bpg to pf ppg
7.1 1.9 1.4 1.2 2.8 3.3 20.8

this is with Wiggins being a year younger. So you feel there wouldn't have been any improvement for Wiggins? He's not even far off as it was. Even a modicum of improvement pushes him to equal or past Jackson. And he still has more upside due to length and athleticism.

I dont know what assists, ppg, rebounds and TOs have to do with a perimeter players defense. Wiggins was an average defender in college that had streaks of being good (mainly due to his size and athleticism advantage) and streaks of being bad. Its no secret that many people questioned if he had the mentality to be a good defender. I mean that was one of his biggest question marks coming out of college. Does he have enough dog in him to be a great defender because he didnt show it in college.

Josh Jackson was a really good defender all season. He had a few ups and downs, but for the majority of the season he was a far superior defender over what Wiggins showed while at KU. Jackson's DBPM was 5.7 and his DRTG was 96. Wiggins DBPM was 3 and his DRTG was 102.8.

Now do I put Jackson on the same level as a defender coming out of college as say MKG, Winslow and RHJ? No. I thought those guys were special defenders in college and would be close to elite defenders in the NBA from day 1. I think Jackson was a really good defender and will be a good solid defender from day 1 in the NBA but not elite. I do think he has the potential to become a really good to elite defender later on though.

And you dont even need to look at stats because I still dont buy advanced defensive stats as being the end all be all. I still think the best way to judge defense is by the eye test and I saw almost every minute of Jackson and Wiggins at KU, there was a big difference on the impact they had on defense. If you think differently thats perfectly fine, we will see what type of impact Jackson will have defensively next year. If Jackson comes close to even having a net neutral impact defensively, he will already be a better defender than Wiggins.

I also dont get why you think I have a bias towards one or the other. Theyre both forwards from Kansas. Its not like I'm showing my Duke bias for one of them. Theyre both guys from KU, I actually like KU and like both of the players. I just think Jackson is the better overall prospect. There is no bias there.

[Duke4life831]

it's recency (or just plain) bias. Wiggins was a very good defender in college. You're just plain wrong. Maybe stop spreading nonsense like that as it doesn't help you.

Per 40 Jackson:
rpg apg spg bpg to pf ppg
9.6 3.9 2.2 1.4 3.6 3.9 21.2

Per 40 Wiggins:
rpg apg spg bpg to pf ppg
7.1 1.9 1.4 1.2 2.8 3.3 20.8

this is with Wiggins being a year younger. So you feel there wouldn't have been any improvement for Wiggins? He's not even far off as it was. Even a modicum of improvement pushes him to equal or past Jackson. And he still has more upside due to length and athleticism.

And that's with Jackson being the third option with two ball dominant guards and playing out of position.

Yup. I think you could make the argument Jackson was the 2nd option, he did put up the 2nd most shots on the team. But he was definitely 3rd when it came to handling the ball. Wiggins was by far the #1 option on the team, he took over a 100 more shots than Perry Ellis who was 2nd on the team.

If anything that shows how talented of a scorer Jackson can be without really needing the ball all that much. That was the thing that impressed me the most with Jackson this past year, his movement and cutting without the ball. Very Iggy like.

[MC3]

Jackson will be amazing. I take him over Fultz and Ball. He will be better than Wiggins. Basically everything what Wiggins was supposed to be.

[The Skyhook]

I have him ahead of Ball in my rankings. I would absolutely love him on the Lakers. While his shooting is a weakness in his game I believe he will eventually become a relible shooter. His skills on defense are exactly what the Lakers need especially on the perimeter. Jackson and Ingram would raise hell on the defensive end.

I know there are a lot of fans that want to see the Lakers draft a point guard and slide Russell over to the two but Jackson's playmaking ability can free Russell up to play off the ball more. Luke's offense doesn't require a traditional point guard when you have guys like Russell, Jackson, Ingram, and Randle who can all handle the rock and make plays.

[DraftGuru]

I have him ahead of Ball in my rankings. I would absolutely love him on the Lakers. While his shooting is a weakness in his game I believe he will eventually become a relible shooter. His skills on defense are exactly what the Lakers need especially on the perimeter. Jackson and Ingram would raise hell on the defensive end.

I know there are a lot of fans that want to see the Lakers draft a point guard and slide Russell over to the two but Jackson's playmaking ability can free Russell up to play off the ball more. Luke's offense doesn't require a traditional point guard when you have guys like Russell, Jackson, Ingram, and Randle who can all handle the rock and make plays.

with Jackson at the 2 and Ingram at the 3 especially. If Jackson is there for the Lakers he's going to be their pick because I can't see them taking a point guard.

[Duke4life831]

I have him ahead of Ball in my rankings. I would absolutely love him on the Lakers. While his shooting is a weakness in his game I believe he will eventually become a relible shooter. His skills on defense are exactly what the Lakers need especially on the perimeter. Jackson and Ingram would raise hell on the defensive end.

I know there are a lot of fans that want to see the Lakers draft a point guard and slide Russell over to the two but Jackson's playmaking ability can free Russell up to play off the ball more. Luke's offense doesn't require a traditional point guard when you have guys like Russell, Jackson, Ingram, and Randle who can all handle the rock and make plays.

That would be some size and versatility coming from your wings for sure. Jackson and Ingram both have plus vision and passing for their size and ya in a few years they could definitely cause some havoc defensively. If they both get their shots down, that would be scary.

[rockmanslim]

Watching summer league highlights.

In regards to ball handling skill, it's not even close, Jackson by a mile.

[Damkac]

Wiggins better scorer. Jackson better at everything else.

[crazy_me_87]

Wiggins better scorer. Jackson better at everything else.

I am not even that sure if he is a worse scorer at the same Stage(Rookie year). I think Josh has a very important quallity Andrew seems to lack to this day... an Alpha Dog Mindset and aggressiveness. If Wiggins really wanted he could easilly lead the League in Scoring.. he is simply not guardable 1v1. Too Fast.. too Athletic and a good Post Game. And a solid Mid Range and 3pt Game now...

Josh has all that too. maybe a notch below Wiggins.. But his agressiveness and high motor easilly make up for that little less raw athletism and Post Game.. Then add that he is a far superior Ball Handler wich also can make scoring easier.

With Phoenix likely moving on from Bledsoe he could easilly be the No2 Option behind Booker from day 1. I think he could suprise people and have a 16-17 PPG rookie Season simillar to Wiggins. All that while blowing him out of the Water everywhere else with 6+ Rebounds and 2.5-3.5 APG and propably 1.5 steals and maybe 0.7 or more Blocks.

Wiggins now is of course the better Scorer but i think as Rookies they are really comparable Scoring wise.

Oh and lets not even start with that Josh looks like he actually will be the defender everybody thought Wiggins would be..

[CptCrunch]

Wiggins is passive and coasts at times. Jackson is aggressive and has that lead player mentality.

Jackson is likely a plus defender. Wiggins is still a bottom of the league defender (bottom 5 in DRPM at SF) by the end of his third season.

Wiggins has poor basketball IQ and doesn't fill the spreadsheets (aside from average efficiency volume scoring), Jackson is a stat sheet stuffer.

Jackson will be the better player down the line unless his shooting doesn't develop at all.

[thamadkant]

Wiggins has a better jumpshot and shooting mechanics, but Jackson will be better everywhere else.

Wiggins is good and I've always drafted him in my fantasy teams, he is frustrating because he puts up good PPG, but nothing else. I thought he would be a 1.5-2 SPG player with maybe 6 RPG and 3-4 APG, basically a good scorer and overall game, but so far, he has just shown scoring instincts. Hopefully he improves.

But Jackson, he looks like Iguadala v2.0 or a more dynamic lesser of a shooter version of Batum, with hopefully an alpha attitude like Draymond Green, somewhere around 15ppg 6rpg 4apg 2spg and shutdown specialist task... which would be so IN-DEMAND with the current modern perimeter/offense focused NBA.

[Hoopz Afrik]

It's truly remarkable how underappreciated Andrew Wiggins has become on these boards.

[Marcus]

It's truly remarkable how underappreciated Andrew Wiggins has become on these boards.

How so? What's inaccurate about whats been said?

[HeartBreakKid]

It's truly remarkable how underappreciated Andrew Wiggins has become on these boards.

I mean the only thing he can do is score at this point, is that really a controversial statement?

[Duke4life831]

Wanted to see how everyone feels about this now one year has gone by. Has anyone changed their mind on who they picked? I chose Jackson and still feel pretty good about it.

[The-Power]

Both players will have to seriously adjust their game and change their approach in order to be able to contribute to good teams. Jackson has not been in the league for long and plays on an abysmal team, so I guess he's more likely to change. But I can't say I'm encouraged by the way he's been entering games with a score-first mentality, that's a horrible way for him to approach the NBA.

I picked Jackson when the comparison came up mainly for his motor and ability to contribute outside of scoring. Well, thus far he hasn't shown why I thought highly of his intensity, defensive impact, secondary playmaking and rim-oriented off-ball game. It looked like he had a winning mentality at Kansas but decided to do things differently for the Suns – a team that had a usage rate to fill. Not too late for him to turn the corner but I'm a bit worried.

[Marcus]

Wanted to see how everyone feels about this now one year has gone by. Has anyone changed their mind on who they picked? I chose Jackson and still feel pretty good about it.

Still onboard with Josh, still onboard with giving him the ball and letting him flourish. When they've done it he's been good. Up and down in terms of consistency, but he's looked the part for this 2nd half of the year.

[Marcus]

Both players will have to seriously adjust their game and change their approach in order to be able to contribute to good teams. Jackson has not been in the league for long and plays on an abysmal team, so I guess he's more likely to change. But I can't say I'm encouraged by the way he's been entering games with a score-first mentality, that's a horrible way for him to approach the NBA.

I picked Jackson when the comparison came up mainly for his motor and ability to contribute outside of scoring. Well, thus far he hasn't shown why I thought highly of his intensity, defensive impact, secondary playmaking and rim-oriented off-ball game. It looked like he had a winning mentality at Kansas but decided to do things differently for the Suns – a team that had a usage rate to fill. Not too late for him to turn the corner but I'm a bit worried.

I don't really like that Phoenix fit for him environment wise either. I think he needs something a little more solid just because of his temper and the way he plays. But I still hold hope for him to be an igniter in that turn-around.

[DirtyDez]

JJ’s jumpshot and an abomination but his motor is about as relentless as anyone I can remember. If his J never significantly improved i think he’ll be something similar to Iguodala b/c he can be an excellent ball handler and passer enentually. My issue with his J is it looks different every time. He’s yet to choose the right way to shoot and work on it. Maybe it’s because they’re just losing games and letting them play but he needs to identify the right shot mechanics and go from there.

[Marcus]

JJ’s jumpshot and an abomination but his motor is about as relentless as anyone I can remember. If his J never significantly improved i think he’ll be something similar to Iguodala b/c he can be an excellent ball handler and passer enentually. My issue with his J is it looks different every time. He’s yet to choose the right way to shoot and work on it. Maybe it’s because they’re just losing games and letting them play but he needs to identify the right shot mechanics and go from there.

yeah that was what I thought would be the case coming into the year. I'm guessing they gave it a shot to see how the shot plays out at this level, maybe they tweak or build the muscle memory and reps with the correct release and he takes off from there. He's pacing well, especially in the open floor, making better decisions and showing off his passing as well. Suns are running a lot of the action he ran at KU and he's attacking with confidence. Josh with confidence gets his jumper rolling and we are essentially off to the races with him at that point.

I need his j to find a steady home and his temperament to find a happy place (good balance of fire and ice). Think he also needs to find a happy medium as the Pippen to Booker's Jordan as in aggressively picking his spots as the 2nd scorer and not getting lost in Devin doing his thing. This draft will be big for you guys as well in terms of who you add and how everyone fits. Key for JJ this off-season in my eyes is balance, balance, balance. Finding a norm and a happy place for everything he does.