Luka Doncic

[jrob23]

Even tho I share some of your skepticism, I think you really underrate what Doncic is capable of. 17 year old being one of the best players on a top 5 Euro team is pretty unprecedented, his skills are so advanced for his age is crazy. Americans his age are still in highschool for hell sake, and I can guarantee you than no other 17 year in the world right now, couldn't do the things Doncic does in the Euroleague. Other Euros like Hartenstein, Bender, Hezonja couldn't sniff any playing time on worse Euroleague teams, and they still were (or will) high lotto picks. Doncic is not only promising, he is outplaying top Euro competition at age 17.

I think one of the big problems with this kind of thinking some American NBA fans have about EuroLegaue, is all the endless fake hype and marketing schemes USA media and NBA do about some European players. I mean, they endlessly bragged about Rubio being the best player in Europe as a teenager (actually, at 19-20 he was the worst rotation player on his team), they endlessly claimed Saric was the best player in Europe, before and after he got drafted (reality - he was never even one of the best fours in EuroLeague), they claimed someone like Hezonja was a superstar in Europe (when actually he was barely able to stay in his team's rotation), there are many, many more such similar examples.

Ones that are far more egregious also. USA media and NBA marketing love to claim that guys drafted from Europe, that were playing in youth leagues, or minor leagues were "stars in Europe". They also love to claim almost every guy that ever played in Europe and came to the NBA was some kind of "EuroLeague MVP"....I swear, a player could have been the MVP of the Hungarian league, and the in game NBA announcers would call him "a former EuroLeague MVP".

In game announcers and US sports media said it so many times that Luis Scola was EuroLeague MVP (untrue), Nikola Mirotic was a EuroLeague MVP (untrue), etc., etc. that it causes a real distortion of how American NBA fans that never have seen the EuroLeague view it.

It seems to be a general opinion among most American NBA fans that truly every European player that gets drafted was some kind of EuroLeague star, when actually most of them are playing in youth levels or minor leagues, and the ones playing in EuroLeague are almost all role players, and none of them are "stars".

It's like they view EuroLeague the same as NCAA college basketball - if you were drafted, you must have been "a star". But it's nothing like that at all.

I think this is why so many American NBA fans see someone like Doncic playing in a rotation in a big EuroLeague team as the age of a high school senior, and having decent numbers, and they just take that as totally unimpressive, something that has been done numerous times, something any top level college player or even US high school player could do, and something that Rubio and blah blah blah did before.

They just take USA sports media, NBA in game announcers, and NBA marketing talking points about the game in Europe as their basis of fact, without realizing none of that stuff is actually true. You can see it every time a discussion about EuroLeague comes up. A lot of NBA fans just don't take anything about EuroLeague seriously, and view it as some kind of a joke minor league, where the best NCAA teams would always win the championship, or where your average D-League player would be a "EuroLeague star".

With these kind of totally fake preconceived notions and without ever actually watching EuroLeague, it's never going to be seen as anything worthy or legit, that any player ever does in EuroLeague. It comes up all the time in EuroLeague discussions, where plenty of people make claims about how the worst players in the NBA, good D-League players, top NCAA players would all be EuroLeague MVP, EuroLeague Top Scorer, EuroLeague final MVP, EuroLeague champion, etc. (that's actually pretty much a zero percent chance in reality, as it's never actually happened before)......but so many NBA fans judge anything done in EuroLeague through this point of view.

Does he even have to be a volume scorer? If he is truly 6'8-6'9 tall or ends up at that height can't he be a Hedo Turkoglu type of guy who can shoot, pass, handle the ball and plays a point forward role on his team? Hedo wasn't the most athletic guy and he had some nice years next to Dwight in Orlando.

I think Hedo was listed as 6'10 but there is no way he was that tall. At best he was 6'9 in shoes as he always looked slightly shorter/smaller than Ersan on our national team who was listed as 6'7,75 without at the NBA pre draft camp in 2005.

Let's please not start the 6-9 or over height thing again. His team says he 6-6 3/4 without shoes and 6-8 with shoes. He looks no taller than that, and he actually looks shorter than his teammate Othello Hunter, who the NBA listed at 6-8. He's maybe 6-8 in shoes right now, he's absolutely for sure not 6-9. We can't keep arguing about his height being that tall, when it clearly isn't.

I think maybe you are projecting or have some inferiority complex. While I do hear that nonsense from some layman in the media (this prospect must be a star over there) the knowledgeable fans who enter into these discussions don't think that way. It's pretty obvious to most of us that Euroleagues are made up mostly of highly skilled grown men and even the best kids like Doncic aren't going to be played over them. Coaches over there aren't going to piss off a veteran they'll have for the next few seasons so they can play a kid who'll leave for the NBA after a year. We get it.

What we do do is look at whatever tape is available, read all available scouting reports, and use the eye test to try and project them to the NBA. At this point, in most cases, it's obvious that we're talking about mostly very skilled but mostly athletically challenged white guys. While they might have quickness and hops for Europe, compared to guys in the NBA (the best athletes in the world) they simply do not have the requisite athleticism to compete. Standing reach, vertical jump, lateral quickness, wingspan, etc aren't made up American slang. These are very real and necessary attributes that really do affect performance in the NBA. High school and college over here is littered with amazing players that highly skilled that don't stand a chance in the NBA because of it. You watch them play, like you watch your top guys play over there, and can't believe how good they are. Well, after years and years, decades even, of watching these types of players wash out of the NBA you start to recognize why.

Let's use Nik Stauskas and Luke Kennard as examples. Stauskas was a SG with great size and has a very NBA ready skill with his .44% 3t shooting in college. His wingspan is 6'7" which isn't impressive given his height and he lacked lateral quickness. Some of the dumber scouts and G.M. viewed him favorably, while the other guys who live in reality and have seen guys like him from colleges and Europe wash out endlessly in the NBA did not. He was selected 8th overall by one of the worst run franchises the Kings. He's hot garbage. He cannot get his shot off nor defend other quicker more athletic SG. That brings us to Kennard. He's another supposed SG with good size and great all around game and shot. The stupid scouts and draft sites have him in the first round. At least they have him in the 20s lol. He's going to have the same exact issues as Stauskas except he's even slower. So as you can see...this thought process about how less than stellar athleticism not transferring to the NBA isn't a European prospect thing. It's strictly based on athleticism and measurables.

That brings us to Doncic. While a good athlete and obviously very skilled, at 6'7" with shoes, the athlete he is now, he is going to struggle. Hayward is a great comparison for him both in size and athletic ability. Hayward busted his butt to make himself an NBA level athlete. He did it little by little and by his 3rd year he had made it and by 4th year he was a really well rounded NBA player. Now he's a bonafide star in the 2nd tier of NBA SFs. He was an appropriate #20 overall. It's appropriate because when drafted he wasn't going to be ready or at full potential, if ever, for a few seasons and only through an incredible amount of work on his body. That's why it's funny to me that you Euro guys and these draft sites have him so high. His will be a several year journey of putting on 20lbs of muscle while lowering body fat in order to see the minutes necessary to then hone his skills and realize his potential. I'm sure there's a stupid team, like the Kings when they took Stauskas #8, who will never learn the lessons the NBA draft has taught us all over the years, that will overdraft Donic. By the time Donic realizes his potential, again, if ever, that G.M. will maybe already be fired and usually deservedly so.

But like I said, if Doncic grows a couple more inches and can either have elite size at SF or keep his skill set and be a stretch four, that will change everything. He's still young so there's potential. Kurucs on the other hand, so to show you it's not a blanket statement about all European prospects being unathletic, I find to have the necessary athleticism that could translate faster to the NBA. He'll have to get stronger too but the eye test tells me he'll be able to get his shot off and defend at the NBA level, at least sooner than Doncic. He seems quicker, especially laterally, and has great body control plus hops. I don't know for certain but it looks like he has NBA length and is taller than Doncic. His athleticism is translatable to the NBA. Why is Doncic considered so much higher a prospect in your circles than Kurucs? Are you guys basing it on projecting to the NBA or like you claim American media does, on Euro hype?

[UcanUwill]

What do guys think about this comparison. Evan Turner with a better shot?

That actually sounds like a nice comparison. Better passing also, though. And the above-mentioned little things, although Turner is decent at that also.

I wouldn't go that far and say hes a better passer. Turner is really good passer, was dominant in college, and I guarantee he would have been very good in Europe at young age, if he was an Euro. Thats what scares me, cause to be fair, Turner is a bust. His athleticism was more than enough to dominate lesser competition, and he was skilled enough to have ball in his hands all the time, and thats when he thrives. In the NBA his athletic limitations obviously limited him. And Doncic falls to same category, he is tall for a playmaker, but not very athletic (for the NBA), and is not as dominant scorer, which will probably limit his time with the ball.

I really afraid, I think Doncic can bust Turner style, still good enough to stick in the league, but nothing special. His shot could be a difference maker, if he develops his shot and becomes lethal shooter, that might separate him from guys like Evan Turner.

[SportsGuy8]

What do guys think about this comparison. Evan Turner with a better shot?

That actually sounds like a nice comparison. Better passing also, though. And the above-mentioned little things, although Turner is decent at that also.

I wouldn't go that far and say hes a better passer. Turner is really good passer, was dominant in college, and I guarantee he would have been very good in Europe at young age, if he was an Euro. Thats what scares me, cause to be fair, Turner is a bust. His athleticism was more than enough to dominate lesser competition, and he was skilled enough to have ball in his hands all the time, and thats when he thrives. In the NBA his athletic limitations obviously limited him. And Doncic falls to same category, he is tall for a playmaker, but not very athletic (for the NBA), and is not as dominant scorer, which will probably limit his time with the ball.

I really afraid, I think Doncic can bust Turner style, still good enough to stick in the league, but nothing special. His shot could be a difference maker, if he develops his shot and becomes lethal shooter, that might separate him from guys like Evan Turner.

I agree that Turner is also a very good passer. I don't think his college career really compares, though. First year of college, when he was 19, he was quite mediocre, it was later, in his 2nd and mostly his 3rd year, at 21, when he truly became "dominant" as you say.

It's obviously hard to guess but I have a hard time believing he would even be able to make Real Madrid's senior team at 17, probably not even having a vital role at 19.

Now let's reverse the situations. Doncic is close to 16 7 7 per 36 minutes this year, playing on a powerhouse with adult men vs. adult men. Is it crazy to think he could be able to average a triple-double on most NCAA teams right now, at 17?

Btw., here's Doncic playing with more freedom (youth selections):

Watch on YouTube

It's not so much about flashiness, but his vision and ability/creativity to somehow get the ball to his target.

[UcanUwill]

I agree that Turner is also a very good passer. I don't think his college career really compares, though. First year of college, when he was 19, he was quite mediocre, it was later, in his 2nd and mostly his 3rd year, at 21, when he truly became "dominant" as you say.

It's obviously hard to guess but I have a hard time believing he would even be able to make Real Madrid's senior team at 17, probably not even having a vital role at 19.

Now let's reverse the situations. Doncic is close to 16 7 7 per 36 minutes this year, playing on a powerhouse with adult men vs. adult men. Is it crazy to think he could be able to average a triple-double on most NCAA teams right now, at 17?

I completely agree Turner would not have made Real Madrid roster at age 17, not even close, but my comparison still stands. Doncic is far ahead of the curve, but that doesn't guarantee you nothing. I have hard time imagining how Doncic could elevate his game to another level. He looks like a guy who can steadily improve his game, but I fail to see this major potential. Even with guy like Hartenstein, who I not very high on, and who is much worse than Doncic currently, I still see more potential there.

I am a big fan of Doncic as an Euroleague fan, and I hope he turns into a superstar, but as NBA fan, I have serious doubts.

[Sports Geek]

What do guys think about this comparison. Evan Turner with a better shot?

Physically he could be something like that. But he is a PG, a family size PG , so I think we should mention a big pass-first PG if we want to find the perfect comparison. I would say (don't freak out) Magic Johnson. You know what I mean, we can't say he is going to be that good (too young yet to know exactly how far he can go), but Magic was a big pass-first PG, with great court awareness and able to help a lot in rebounding.

In terms of athleticism and size (leaving aside position and skills), I would say Andrés Nocioni. Elite athlete for FIBA basketball, average for NBA standards. Strong, intense, all around players. I think Luka could end up being a little bit taller though.

Anyway, we are comparing a high school kid with grown up players already, so that's a good sign for him. We will see how he physically evolutes, it is too soon to say if he will be a Magic Johnson or just an Andrés Nocioni type of body. Same about athleticism.

[Sports Geek]

Why is Doncic considered so much higher a prospect in your circles than Kurucs? Are you guys basing it on projecting to the NBA or like you claim American media does, on Euro hype?

Because Josean Querejeta (Baskonia's GM) would give his right testicle and Kurucs on a trade for Doncic. Man, Kurucs wasn't even able to help his team. Doncic is winning Euroleague games on his own. Doncic is on the opposite team scouting reports. De Colo talks about Real Madrid and say: "we have to take care of Llull and Doncic". It was before yesterday's game.

[Mirotic12]

Let's please try to keep this realistic, truthful, and accurate in this discussion here.

Doncic is in no way close to being the best player of Real Madrid. He's not even close to the level of Llull, and Randolph is also better. Rudy, even though his game has fallen off since his athleticism dropped, he's still without any doubt a better all around player than Doncic right now.

So he's more like the 4th best player of Real, and let's be serious here, there is barely any difference from the 3rd best player of Real to the 10th best player. They are all more or less at similar levels, other than Llull and Rudy.

Also, Doncic is not an elite athlete for FIBA (I assume that is meant as EuroLeague). He's literally miles from being that. He's probably one of the least athletic players on his team.

Yes, he's a very good player already at 17 in EuroLeague. Yes, he's the best 1999 born in Europe for sure........however, let's please not start with the over the board stuff. Calling him an elite athlete for the competitions he is playing in is basically the same thing as calling Kyle Korver an elite athlete for NBA.

If I had to name the top 100 guys athletically (out of 16 teams) in EuroLeague - Doncic would not make the top 100.

[Apollo64]

Highlights against CSKA

Watch on YouTube

[Goon]

What do guys think about this comparison. Evan Turner with a better shot?

That actually sounds like a nice comparison. Better passing also, though. And the above-mentioned little things, although Turner is decent at that also.

I wouldn't go that far and say hes a better passer. Turner is really good passer, was dominant in college, and I guarantee he would have been very good in Europe at young age, if he was an Euro. Thats what scares me, cause to be fair, Turner is a bust. His athleticism was more than enough to dominate lesser competition, and he was skilled enough to have ball in his hands all the time, and thats when he thrives. In the NBA his athletic limitations obviously limited him. And Doncic falls to same category, he is tall for a playmaker, but not very athletic (for the NBA), and is not as dominant scorer, which will probably limit his time with the ball.

I really afraid, I think Doncic can bust Turner style, still good enough to stick in the league, but nothing special. His shot could be a difference maker, if he develops his shot and becomes lethal shooter, that might separate him from guys like Evan Turner.

Doncic is a MUCH better shooter and his BBIQ is without a doubt higher. Outside of their size at the PG spot I fail to see much similarities between the two.

[Sports Geek]

Let's please try to keep this realistic, truthful, and accurate in this discussion here.

Doncic is in no way close to being the best player of Real Madrid. He's not even close to the level of Llull, and Randolph is also better. Rudy, even though his game has fallen off since his athleticism dropped, he's still without any doubt a better all around player than Doncic right now.

So he's more like the 4th best player of Real, and let's be serious here, there is barely any difference from the 3rd best player of Real to the 10th best player. They are all more or less at similar levels, other than Llull and Rudy.

Also, Doncic is not an elite athlete for FIBA (I assume that is meant as EuroLeague). He's literally miles from being that. He's probably one of the least athletic players on his team.

Yes, he's a very good player already at 17 in EuroLeague. Yes, he's the best 1999 born in Europe for sure........however, let's please not start with the over the board stuff. Calling him an elite athlete for the competitions he is playing in is basically the same thing as calling Kyle Korver an elite athlete for NBA.

If I had to name the top 100 guys athletically (out of 16 teams) in EuroLeague - Doncic would not make the top 100.

Yeah, let's keep this realistic. Reality is that if you say that Randolph is better than Doncic right now... You haven't watched too many Real Madrid games this year, ah? Randolph hasn't played a good game since the win over FC Barcelona and that was almost 2 months ago. He is incredibly talented (if you leave aside that if you defend his left hand, Randolph is done) but right now he is doing awful.

And Rudy... come on... he is kind of like Randolph right now. He is unable to make 3s when he is wide open, he makes bad decissions and slows the team's play too much. He needs to accept he will never be the same player he used to and let the game come to him instead of forcing idiotic plays and shots. Derrick Rose has the same problem and he has been killing his teams in the last seasons too. Better all around player? Just take a look at the numbers. Rudy is 8'5-3'1-3'7 in 26 minutes (37% 2s, 32'5% 3s, 83'3 FT). Doncic is 8'1-3'4-3'4 in just 18 minutes (52'8% 2s, 41'7% 3s, 83'8 FT). Plus Doncic was the one defending De Colo (Euroleague's last MVP and 2nd scorer this season) while they were together on the court. I think Laso knows a bit more than you and me combined about his defensive skills.

I will buy the Llull thing. In the end he is the best player and the leader inside and outside the court. But he has too many ups and downs. But yeah, when he is physically OK and confident, he is maybe the best player in Euroleague. He has being fighting against some knee issues and he wasn't at his best. That's why I said the Doncic thing. Luka was the leader when Llull didn't play or was half speed.

And about athleticism... In the same De Colo interview I mentioned yesterday, he said he had never seen something like that in Europe, maybe Ricky Rubio, but Ricky was more creative and Doncic more athletic. In his own words. The guy defending him and being defended by him.

PS: I don't mean FIBA. I mean Euroleague. You want to be accurate, so say Euroleague. LeBron James plays FIBA competitions too, don't forget that. And Uruguayan league is FIBA too. But we are talking about Euroleague standards, not Lebron or Uruguayans' (I don't mean to disrespect them). So Euroleague is a better term.

PS2: I am a Real Madrid season pass holder. It is easy to talk about players when you only watch the game of the week, ah. You don't need to watch every game to have an opinion and I respect all other users' ones, but you are like the Pope, everything you say is not an opinion, it is the only truth. BTW I am sick of Randolph and Rudy. They are classy enough to turn the tide and I think they will. Right now, they are annoying more than helping. That's why Real Madrid got to a terrible streak (and Carroll). We went 3-2 in Spanish league and 3-3 in Euroleague. Doncic and Maciulis stepping up were the only good news.

[SportsGuy8]

To be fair, though, it's hard to watch many games of other teams when you're so busy jerking off to mommy's little bitch Spanoulis.

I agree that Turner is also a very good passer. I don't think his college career really compares, though. First year of college, when he was 19, he was quite mediocre, it was later, in his 2nd and mostly his 3rd year, at 21, when he truly became "dominant" as you say.

It's obviously hard to guess but I have a hard time believing he would even be able to make Real Madrid's senior team at 17, probably not even having a vital role at 19.

Now let's reverse the situations. Doncic is close to 16 7 7 per 36 minutes this year, playing on a powerhouse with adult men vs. adult men. Is it crazy to think he could be able to average a triple-double on most NCAA teams right now, at 17?

I completely agree Turner would not have made Real Madrid roster at age 17, not even close, but my comparison still stands. Doncic is far ahead of the curve, but that doesn't guarantee you nothing. I have hard time imagining how Doncic could elevate his game to another level. He looks like a guy who can steadily improve his game, but I fail to see this major potential. Even with guy like Hartenstein, who I not very high on, and who is much worse than Doncic currently, I still see more potential there.

I am a big fan of Doncic as an Euroleague fan, and I hope he turns into a superstar, but as NBA fan, I have serious doubts.

I also have serious doubts about Doncic every being close to superstar level, but there's quite a gap between a superstar and Turner.

My main point is that what Turner did in NCAA didn't guarantee anything, but what Doncic is doing on Real Madrid right now should actually be extremely transferable to the NBA, especially these days when European teams are also filled with great athletes and many physically strong players. It's not like NBA teams are full of athletic freaks like Antetokounmpo, there's really not that much difference.

Doncic's teammates and competition is basically:
- Former NCAA stars that were in some cases even lottery NBA picks, but didn't quite make it in the NBA for various reasons and headed to Europe.
- Former NCAA stars that weren't drafted, headed to Europe, continued to improve year after year to climb from lower leagues to Euroleague teams.
- Former NBA players.
- European players who never had much interest in going to the NBA, although they could, if they really wanted.
- Other European veterans.

Bottom line, Doncic's teammates and competition is already basically on an NBA level, or extremely close to it, while a guy like Turner played with and against kids with undeveloped bodies, with major talent spread throughout MANY NCAA teams and quite frankly with the whole NCAA having extremely limited strategic concepts, both offensively and defensively.

[SportsGuy8]

Oh and one more thing. If you go through lottery Euro picks that ended up being busts, I don't remember anyone who actually had a serious role on a serious team before going to the NBA. The only one that somehow comes to mind is maybe Jan Vesely, but he wasn't that good and Partizan is far from being a top team. Besides, Vesely is a special case because scouts fell in love with his athleticism, disregarding other aspects, something that's a common trend with most NCAA busts also.

On the other hand, I don't remember anyone who was already very impressive in Europe before being drafted in the lottery, who ended up as an NBA bust. Can anyone help me here?

[CalL]

Oh and one more thing. If you go through lottery Euro picks that ended up being busts, I don't remember anyone who actually had a serious role on a serious team before going to the NBA. The only one that somehow comes to mind is maybe Jan Vesely, but he wasn't that good and Partizan is far from being a top team. Besides, Vesely is a special case because scouts fell in love with his athleticism, disregarding other aspects, something that's a common trend with most NCAA busts also.

On the other hand, I don't remember anyone who was already very impressive in Europe before being drafted in the lottery, who ended up as an NBA bust. Can anyone help me here?

I think no one here really thinks that Doncic will be a bust. Even if he doesnt keep improving, he can still be a solid role player/6th man in the NBA. I think there isnt anyone who wouldnt draft Doncic top 10, the question is whether he should be top 5 or even top 3. A top 5 pick should have the potential to be a franchise player and i think most people who criticize Doncic just dont see that kind of potential in him. I think Doncic would be great for teams like San Antonio/GSW/Cleveland and so on (teams that dont need a rebuild), but i am not sure whether he would be the best pick for teams who need a rebuild, because i dont think he is on the same level as Ayton/Bamba/Diallo/Sexton potential-wise. If a team wants a player who can help them immediately, then they should probably pick him, if they look for a future franchise player, then they might want to pick someone else.

Considering how many good guards we will have in the next draft, many teams might rather look for big men in 2018, which might lead to Doncic being drafted outside the top 5.

In the end we should all remember that it will be more than 16 months before Doncic will be drafted (assuming that he will declare as early as possible), so he has a lot of time to improve and grow. If he ends up 6'10 or 6'11, this will be a completely different discussion after all.

[SportsGuy8]

Oh and one more thing. If you go through lottery Euro picks that ended up being busts, I don't remember anyone who actually had a serious role on a serious team before going to the NBA. The only one that somehow comes to mind is maybe Jan Vesely, but he wasn't that good and Partizan is far from being a top team. Besides, Vesely is a special case because scouts fell in love with his athleticism, disregarding other aspects, something that's a common trend with most NCAA busts also.

On the other hand, I don't remember anyone who was already very impressive in Europe before being drafted in the lottery, who ended up as an NBA bust. Can anyone help me here?

I think no one here really thinks that Doncic will be a bust. Even if he doesnt keep improving, he can still be a solid role player/6th man in the NBA. I think there isnt anyone who wouldnt draft Doncic top 10, the question is whether he should be top 5 or even top 3. A top 5 pick should have the potential to be a franchise player and i think most people who criticize Doncic just dont see that kind of potential in him. I think Doncic would be great for teams like San Antonio/GSW/Cleveland and so on (teams that dont need a rebuild), but i am not sure whether he would be the best pick for teams who need a rebuild, because i dont think he is on the same level as Ayton/Bamba/Diallo/Sexton potential-wise. If a team wants a player who can help them immediately, then they should probably pick him, if they look for a future franchise player, then they might want to pick someone else.

Considering how many good guards we will have in the next draft, many teams might rather look for big men in 2018, which might lead to Doncic being drafted outside the top 5.

In the end we should all remember that it will be more than 16 months before Doncic will be drafted (assuming that he will declare as early as possible), so he has a lot of time to improve and grow. If he ends up 6'10 or 6'11, this will be a completely different discussion after all.

This last post that you quoted was meant in a general way, for all European players, and how certain Euro situations are extremely transferable to the NBA. My mistake for not being clear.

I do agree with basically everything you wrote, with the exception of the possibility of him still growing. I think that's highly unlikely at this point, even an inch seems unlikely. It's hard to know for sure, though, obviously ...

[jrob23]

Oh and one more thing. If you go through lottery Euro picks that ended up being busts, I don't remember anyone who actually had a serious role on a serious team before going to the NBA. The only one that somehow comes to mind is maybe Jan Vesely, but he wasn't that good and Partizan is far from being a top team. Besides, Vesely is a special case because scouts fell in love with his athleticism, disregarding other aspects, something that's a common trend with most NCAA busts also.

On the other hand, I don't remember anyone who was already very impressive in Europe before being drafted in the lottery, who ended up as an NBA bust. Can anyone help me here?

I think no one here really thinks that Doncic will be a bust. Even if he doesnt keep improving, he can still be a solid role player/6th man in the NBA. I think there isnt anyone who wouldnt draft Doncic top 10, the question is whether he should be top 5 or even top 3. A top 5 pick should have the potential to be a franchise player and i think most people who criticize Doncic just dont see that kind of potential in him. I think Doncic would be great for teams like San Antonio/GSW/Cleveland and so on (teams that dont need a rebuild), but i am not sure whether he would be the best pick for teams who need a rebuild, because i dont think he is on the same level as Ayton/Bamba/Diallo/Sexton potential-wise. If a team wants a player who can help them immediately, then they should probably pick him, if they look for a future franchise player, then they might want to pick someone else.

Considering how many good guards we will have in the next draft, many teams might rather look for big men in 2018, which might lead to Doncic being drafted outside the top 5.

In the end we should all remember that it will be more than 16 months before Doncic will be drafted (assuming that he will declare as early as possible), so he has a lot of time to improve and grow. If he ends up 6'10 or 6'11, this will be a completely different discussion after all.

well said. I've only been trying to keep Euro guys on here in check with their expectations. We've got laughable draft sites with him going #3 overall and the guys in this thread swearing he's the best player in the draft and it's over the top. The big men in next year's draft are elite. There are a handful of point guards, shooting guards, and wings after that who might not be as hyped as the big men but they will be as we see them in All American games and in college, who will be in the same discussion as Doncic. If Doncic keeps his current skill level and athleticism but also grows a few inches? That's a whole new ballgame. He'd then be a perfect stretch 4 prospect and that is something NBA teams covet big time. He'd basically be Toni Kukoc 2.0. But without growing a few inches, he'll need to hit that gym and pay his dues before he'll be given a starting job let alone dominate and become a star. Then..he has slightly above Gordon Hayward upside. Not too shabby. But I have a feeling guys in here think that is doing him a disservice and he's the next Grant Hill instead lol.

[Sports Geek]

Calling him an elite athlete for the competitions he is playing in is basically the same thing as calling Kyle Korver an elite athlete for NBA.

BTW this is Korver dunking:

Watch on YouTube

This is Doncic dunking 2 years ago, when he had just turned 16:

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Find the differences.

[a3r0d]

Calling him an elite athlete for the competitions he is playing in is basically the same thing as calling Kyle Korver an elite athlete for NBA.

BTW this is Korver dunking:

Watch on YouTube

This is Doncic dunking 2 years ago, when he had just turned 16:

Watch on YouTube

Find the differences.

Doncic murdered a kid?

[Mirotic12]

A claim was made here that Luka Doncic has elite athleticism for EuroLeague. A claim was also made here that Ricky Rubio has elite athleticism for EuroLeague.

Both of those are totally incorrect. Pretty much every single EuroLeague team has at least one guard (many with multiple guards) that are more athletic than either of them, and in many cases far more athletic than either of them.

Some of the hyperbole here needs to be pointed out, because people that don't watch EuroLeague might actually believe it's true, even though it clearly isn't.

[Sports Geek]

Some of the hyperbole here needs to be pointed out, because people that don't watch EuroLeague might actually believe it's true, even though it clearly isn't.

Or maybe we could let them build their own opinion based on what they see with their own eyes.

[saphan]

Watch on YouTube