Lonzo Ball

[Duke4life831]

this is what we've been saying all year.

I think people are sleeping on Fox. I get because he can't shoot he isn't in the discussion with those 3, but I like his play making ability just as much as DSJ and he has lighting speed. I think even if you back off him in the NBA he'll still be able to beat his man and create. In transition he'll be a nightmare. He'll have top 3 speed from day 1 with play making ability. If he learns to hit open 3's he could be trouble at the next level.

Being Lonzo ball's biggest fan my #1 worry is ball's ability to get into the paint at the next level. That is not an issue at all with Fox and usually guys like this who are lighting fast aren't the best playmakers, fox is. Like I said, if he can learn to hit open 3's look out.

Does anyone know how bad a shooter Fox is? is he Rondo bad?

Fox does tend to get lost in the shuffle. Not sure what the deal is with his jumper. Shoots it with confidence, good form, just bad results.

Ya its a real good looking jumper. I think his jumper has like a Brandon Jennings type ceiling. I don't toss Fox in there because there is just too many question marks when it comes to the half court on offense for him. His jumper has terrible results, his handle isn't all that great especially with his off hand. Hes improved finishing around the rim I just question how good of a finisher he is going to be at the next level, not the greatest touch and not the most creative in his scoring at the rim.

[jrob23]

I don't know but I'm completely sold on Ball. It all just depends on what type of PG you want. Im going to bring up another old timer as a comparison and thats Stockton. Im not talking style of game but I kind of am. I bring up Stockton because of this, I think Ball is going to be extremely efficient shooting the ball, he doesn't take bad shots just like Stockton (for the era Stockton played in, his TS% is pretty ridiculous). Now I think they do it in a different way but I think Stockton ran that Utah offense to perfection, he did it by always making the smart pass every time and rarely making mistakes, the dude has like a 4/1 career Act/TO ratio which is crazy for his assist volume. I think Ball is going to be the same way, run his offense super efficiently without making that many mistakes. I also think both guys play the game with such a calm demeanor and aren't afraid to make the simple easy play, that their simplistic style kind of doesn't do them justice. Stockton also would've racked up probably 5 1st team all defense if it wasn't for playing the same time as Gary Payton, hes very underrated on that side of the ball. I don't think Ball is going to be that good defensively but I think hes going to be pretty good.

So if you're looking for like a Kyrie or Lillard type scorer that can take over the game scoring go with Fultz. If you're looking for a PnR maestro go with DSJ. If you're looking for the ultimate floor general and a guy you don't need to count on being you're leading scorer go with Ball. Thats why I think the Suns is such a great fit for him, they got a lot of young guys that look really promising scoring the ball.

great post. In today's NBA, seems like the fan wants flash. Ball still give it to you in the form of fast breaks, passing and deep 3s. But he isn't above the rim, flashy dribble and breaking ankles. G.M. s probably like him more than fans do, especially younger fans. Because of his height he could be better defensively than Stockton which I disagree with you on. He's very disruptive and blocks shots. I'm not sure I ever saw that from Stockton. That's why I think Kidd is a better comparison for both offense and defense. If you look at KIdd's freshmen numbers they are similar. Kidd was quicker with double the steals, but Ball blocks over a shot per game and shoots threes at an elite rate.

[Duke4life831]

I don't know but I'm completely sold on Ball. It all just depends on what type of PG you want. Im going to bring up another old timer as a comparison and thats Stockton. Im not talking style of game but I kind of am. I bring up Stockton because of this, I think Ball is going to be extremely efficient shooting the ball, he doesn't take bad shots just like Stockton (for the era Stockton played in, his TS% is pretty ridiculous). Now I think they do it in a different way but I think Stockton ran that Utah offense to perfection, he did it by always making the smart pass every time and rarely making mistakes, the dude has like a 4/1 career Act/TO ratio which is crazy for his assist volume. I think Ball is going to be the same way, run his offense super efficiently without making that many mistakes. I also think both guys play the game with such a calm demeanor and aren't afraid to make the simple easy play, that their simplistic style kind of doesn't do them justice. Stockton also would've racked up probably 5 1st team all defense if it wasn't for playing the same time as Gary Payton, hes very underrated on that side of the ball. I don't think Ball is going to be that good defensively but I think hes going to be pretty good.

So if you're looking for like a Kyrie or Lillard type scorer that can take over the game scoring go with Fultz. If you're looking for a PnR maestro go with DSJ. If you're looking for the ultimate floor general and a guy you don't need to count on being you're leading scorer go with Ball. Thats why I think the Suns is such a great fit for him, they got a lot of young guys that look really promising scoring the ball.

great post. In today's NBA, seems like the fan wants flash. Ball still give it to you in the form of fast breaks, passing and deep 3s. But he isn't above the rim, flashy dribble and breaking ankles. G.M. s probably like him more than fans do, especially younger fans. Because of his height he could be better defensively than Stockton which I disagree with you on. He's very disruptive and blocks shots. I'm not sure I ever saw that from Stockton. That's why I think Kidd is a better comparison for both offense and defense. If you look at KIdd's freshmen numbers they are similar. Kidd was quicker with double the steals, but Ball blocks over a shot per game and shoots threes at an elite rate.

Again I didn't bring up Stockton because I thought they had very similar looking games. Super smart and efficient player that always plays within himself and because of that they aren't the flashiest player which I think then ends up them being underrated by many fans who don't watch them game in game out to see the actual impact they have on their team. Ball is bigger more athletic and will disrupt shots like Stockton couldn't, Ball probably won't be running the PnR all the time like Stockton did with Malone. I just brought him up as another example of a PG that isn't high scoring or super flashy, just really smart and super efficient. I also think Stockton was tremendous on ball defender and read passing lanes like no one else.

[jrob23]

So if you're looking for like a Kyrie or Lillard type scorer that can take over the game scoring go with Fultz. If you're looking for a PnR maestro go with DSJ. If you're looking for the ultimate floor general and a guy you don't need to count on being you're leading scorer go with Ball. Thats why I think the Suns is such a great fit for him, they got a lot of young guys that look really promising scoring the ball.

this is what we've been saying all year.

I think people are sleeping on Fox. I get because he can't shoot he isn't in the discussion with those 3, but I like his play making ability just as much as DSJ and he has lighting speed. I think even if you back off him in the NBA he'll still be able to beat his man and create. In transition he'll be a nightmare. He'll have top 3 speed from day 1 with play making ability. If he learns to hit open 3's he could be trouble at the next level.

Being Lonzo ball's biggest fan my #1 worry is ball's ability to get into the paint at the next level. That is not an issue at all with Fox and usually guys like this who are lighting fast aren't the best playmakers, fox is. Like I said, if he can learn to hit open 3's look out.

Does anyone know how bad a shooter Fox is? is he Rondo bad?

I don't think they're sleeping on him so much as people expect PGs to be able to shoot the 3. He is terrible. Ignoring 3s, he's the fastest and most disruptive defender of the bunch. He is crafty, an excellent passer and can dribble penetrate and finish. If he did shoot threes well he'd be almost perfect. He has good form but needs a couple thousand reps. He can't get that now but between the season and draft workouts, about 3 months, he can get them. Once he gains confidence and incorporates that in his game he's every bit the player the others are. Every one of them has a major flaw and that's a big one for sure. Fultz has the least amount of flaws which I'm guessing is why he's considered, at this point, the #1 PG. He and Ball have the highest floor but all 4 PGs have similar ceilings.

[E-Balla]

I don't know but I'm completely sold on Ball. It all just depends on what type of PG you want. Im going to bring up another old timer as a comparison and thats Stockton. Im not talking style of game but I kind of am. I bring up Stockton because of this, I think Ball is going to be extremely efficient shooting the ball, he doesn't take bad shots just like Stockton (for the era Stockton played in, his TS% is pretty ridiculous). Now I think they do it in a different way but I think Stockton ran that Utah offense to perfection, he did it by always making the smart pass every time and rarely making mistakes, the dude has like a 4/1 career Act/TO ratio which is crazy for his assist volume. I think Ball is going to be the same way, run his offense super efficiently without making that many mistakes. I also think both guys play the game with such a calm demeanor and aren't afraid to make the simple easy play, that their simplistic style kind of doesn't do them justice. Stockton also would've racked up probably 5 1st team all defense if it wasn't for playing the same time as Gary Payton, hes very underrated on that side of the ball. I don't think Ball is going to be that good defensively but I think hes going to be pretty good.

So if you're looking for like a Kyrie or Lillard type scorer that can take over the game scoring go with Fultz. If you're looking for a PnR maestro go with DSJ. If you're looking for the ultimate floor general and a guy you don't need to count on being you're leading scorer go with Ball. Thats why I think the Suns is such a great fit for him, they got a lot of young guys that look really promising scoring the ball.

great post. In today's NBA, seems like the fan wants flash. Ball still give it to you in the form of fast breaks, passing and deep 3s. But he isn't above the rim, flashy dribble and breaking ankles. G.M. s probably like him more than fans do, especially younger fans. Because of his height he could be better defensively than Stockton which I disagree with you on. He's very disruptive and blocks shots. I'm not sure I ever saw that from Stockton. That's why I think Kidd is a better comparison for both offense and defense. If you look at KIdd's freshmen numbers they are similar. Kidd was quicker with double the steals, but Ball blocks over a shot per game and shoots threes at an elite rate.

Stock is way tougher than Lonzo defensively. Grit goes a long way.

[Kolkmania]

I don't know but I'm completely sold on Ball. It all just depends on what type of PG you want. Im going to bring up another old timer as a comparison and thats Stockton. Im not talking style of game but I kind of am. I bring up Stockton because of this, I think Ball is going to be extremely efficient shooting the ball, he doesn't take bad shots just like Stockton (for the era Stockton played in, his TS% is pretty ridiculous). Now I think they do it in a different way but I think Stockton ran that Utah offense to perfection, he did it by always making the smart pass every time and rarely making mistakes, the dude has like a 4/1 career Act/TO ratio which is crazy for his assist volume. I think Ball is going to be the same way, run his offense super efficiently without making that many mistakes. I also think both guys play the game with such a calm demeanor and aren't afraid to make the simple easy play, that their simplistic style kind of doesn't do them justice. Stockton also would've racked up probably 5 1st team all defense if it wasn't for playing the same time as Gary Payton, hes very underrated on that side of the ball. I don't think Ball is going to be that good defensively but I think hes going to be pretty good.

So if you're looking for like a Kyrie or Lillard type scorer that can take over the game scoring go with Fultz. If you're looking for a PnR maestro go with DSJ. If you're looking for the ultimate floor general and a guy you don't need to count on being you're leading scorer go with Ball. Thats why I think the Suns is such a great fit for him, they got a lot of young guys that look really promising scoring the ball.

great post. In today's NBA, seems like the fan wants flash. Ball still give it to you in the form of fast breaks, passing and deep 3s. But he isn't above the rim, flashy dribble and breaking ankles. G.M. s probably like him more than fans do, especially younger fans. Because of his height he could be better defensively than Stockton which I disagree with you on. He's very disruptive and blocks shots. I'm not sure I ever saw that from Stockton. That's why I think Kidd is a better comparison for both offense and defense. If you look at KIdd's freshmen numbers they are similar. Kidd was quicker with double the steals, but Ball blocks over a shot per game and shoots threes at an elite rate.

Post seems a little bit contradicting to me. Ball makes the simple play on the offensive end, which is one of the hardest things to do. However on the defensive end you're point out his block rate, which is actually a flashy and overrated stat to me. Lonzo Ball is a tremendous team defender, but he's kind of allergic to screens and probably not quick enough to defend PG's in the NBA.

I haven't watched Stockton in his prime, so I can't compare him to Ball defensively. But Lonzo Ball would probably need a defensive minded guard next to him guarding the opponents ball handler.

[BillyKingGM]

yall would take DSJ or Fultz over JJ or Tatum starting a new team even though it's basically impossible to find wing players in the NBA? Why?

[LordCovington33]

this is what we've been saying all year.

I think people are sleeping on Fox. I get because he can't shoot he isn't in the discussion with those 3, but I like his play making ability just as much as DSJ and he has lighting speed. I think even if you back off him in the NBA he'll still be able to beat his man and create. In transition he'll be a nightmare. He'll have top 3 speed from day 1 with play making ability. If he learns to hit open 3's he could be trouble at the next level.

Being Lonzo ball's biggest fan my #1 worry is ball's ability to get into the paint at the next level. That is not an issue at all with Fox and usually guys like this who are lighting fast aren't the best playmakers, fox is. Like I said, if he can learn to hit open 3's look out.

Does anyone know how bad a shooter Fox is? is he Rondo bad?

Fox does tend to get lost in the shuffle. Not sure what the deal is with his jumper. Shoots it with confidence, good form, just bad results.

I am going to enjoy watching him make his opposing number's life a complete misery. He, along with Frank Ntilika, are going to be defensive gods.

[LordCovington33]

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So if you're looking for like a Kyrie or Lillard type scorer that can take over the game scoring go with Fultz. If you're looking for a PnR maestro go with DSJ. If you're looking for the ultimate floor general and a guy you don't need to count on being you're leading scorer go with Ball. Thats why I think the Suns is such a great fit for him, they got a lot of young guys that look really promising scoring the ball.

this is what we've been saying all year.

JJ, Ball and Fultz are my favourites, heck throw in Fox and Ntilika as well.
Do you think JJ is a good fit for the sixers?

[cellar-door]

yall would take DSJ or Fultz over JJ or Tatum starting a new team even though it's basically impossible to find wing players in the NBA? Why?

I'd take Fultz because I think he has the best chance to be a go-to star offensive player, basically like a poor man's Harden. Elite players are the hardest thing to find in the NBA, role players are easy to find at every position.

[GoodVibezin]

Lonzo Ball has a high IQ. Doesn't that count for anything?

Lonzo's A\T ratio is nearly 3.5 to 1. That's outrageous! How many PGs had an A\T ratio over 3 when drafted? And were they freshman?!!

Since conference play began, Fultz and DSJ have struggled. Lonzo has excelled.

Lonzo Ball knows how to win.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Kendall Marshall as a sophomore - 9.8 assists, 2.8 t/o.

[hcsilla]

Kendall Marshall as a sophomore - 9.8 assists, 2.8 t/o.

Ball is taller and much more athletic than Marshall. Total lack of athleticism was the primary reason why Marshall disappeared from the NBA. Ball is far away from being unathletic.

[Dr Positivity]

The combination of being most comfortable in transition and weird jumpshot (and mediocre FT%) is a concerning combination. Enough to go behind Fultz at least

[Vesper]

If the Celtics get the pick, I bet they go for Lonzo Ball if Fultz is taken.

[Notanoob]

A guy with as ugly a shot as Ball has will not be knocking down 3s in the NBA like he is now. That slow and low release isn't a problem right now since he's 6'5", but in the league guys will not struggle to contest him. Given his poor FT% I'd be stunned if he shoots even decently in the NBA.

Then I find out that more than half of his made shots at the rim are assisted. This guy basically can't create his own shot!

That's an obvious concern, and the reason that I'd put him behind Futlz right now, but his ability to run the offense is insane. Still, how many guards in this league do you know of who can't penetrate and are questionable shooters and are net-positives on offense? The only guy who basically fits that description is Ricky Rubio.

[Westbreezy]

A guy with as ugly a shot as Ball has will not be knocking down 3s in the NBA like he is now. That slow and low release isn't a problem right now since he's 6'5", but in the league guys will not struggle to contest him. Given his poor FT% I'd be stunned if he shoots even decently in the NBA.

Then I find out that more than half of his made shots at the rim are assisted. This guy basically can't create his own shot!

That's an obvious concern, and the reason that I'd put him behind Futlz right now, but his ability to run the offense is insane. Still, how many guards in this league do you know of who can't penetrate and are questionable shooters and are net-positives on offense? The only guy who basically fits that description is Ricky Rubio.

Not going to claim I'm an expert but he has a shot similar to Kevin Martin and he did pretty well in the NBA as a 3 point shooter?

[oddwolfhooligan]

A guy with as ugly a shot as Ball has will not be knocking down 3s in the NBA like he is now. That slow and low release isn't a problem right now since he's 6'5", but in the league guys will not struggle to contest him. Given his poor FT% I'd be stunned if he shoots even decently in the NBA.

Then I find out that more than half of his made shots at the rim are assisted. This guy basically can't create his own shot!

That's an obvious concern, and the reason that I'd put him behind Futlz right now, but his ability to run the offense is insane. Still, how many guards in this league do you know of who can't penetrate and are questionable shooters and are net-positives on offense? The only guy who basically fits that description is Ricky Rubio.

I agree that some matchups at the next level will give Ball trouble, but did you watch him yesterday against Arizona? He was guarded by 6'5 Kobi Simmons and was still able to get his shot off fairly effectively with minimal space. Kobi is a decently long and athletic guy too.


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[Duke4life831]

A guy with as ugly a shot as Ball has will not be knocking down 3s in the NBA like he is now. That slow and low release isn't a problem right now since he's 6'5", but in the league guys will not struggle to contest him. Given his poor FT% I'd be stunned if he shoots even decently in the NBA.

Then I find out that more than half of his made shots at the rim are assisted. This guy basically can't create his own shot!

That's an obvious concern, and the reason that I'd put him behind Futlz right now, but his ability to run the offense is insane. Still, how many guards in this league do you know of who can't penetrate and are questionable shooters and are net-positives on offense? The only guy who basically fits that description is Ricky Rubio.

A few things to point out, Ball has actually always been a good FT shooter, usually in the low 80s. Dont know whats up with him this year but its nothing that we havent seen before from good shooters. Reggie Miller as a freshman (small sample size) shot 64% and ended up being a 89% FT shooter. Ray Allen with a plenty big sample size shot 72% as a Soph, he ended up being a 90% FT shooter. Kevin Martin and Reggie Miller both had horrible looking jumpers but that didnt stop them from being good 3pt shooters. Also Ball has been known to be a great 3pt shooter since about his freshman-sophomore year. His shooting is actually what first put him on the map just like his brothers.

[Duke4life831]

Ive seen a lot of people say he has a slow and low release. Where exactly are you getting this from? His release is just as quick as DSJ or Fultz, its just as quick as Kevin Martin who had a kind of similar looking jumper. And when it comes to the release point im not seeing a low release point especially when hes contested. Here are a couple clean shots of his release point




Then lets take a look at video from his last game against Arizona.

Watch on YouTube

There are two good shots where you get to see his release point. His first jumper of the game, you see he has no problem getting his jumper over an athletic 6'5 Kobi Simmons. The best one is if you slow down and pause it at 3:48 you will see how high he gets off the floor, and how high he releases the ball. All of these show his release point being above his head, add in him being 6'5, Im not seeing a low release point. And again he is showing that he is getting his shot off against legit 6'4-6'5 athletic guards.