RJ Barrett

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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#261 » by King Ken » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:14 am

BobThunder wrote:
King Ken wrote:I feel some of the shots being thrown at R.J. just isn't right. R.J. was beating his man off of the dribble, he just couldn't do adjust to the help defense. None of them could. They are just freshmen. Early into the season freshmen as well.

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He was? :-?
Yes, he was. He was getting in the paint everytime. He finished his dunks, just missed layups. In the NBA where there is no junk traffic, he would have been fine.

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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#262 » by King Ken » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:16 am

peZt wrote:
Knickstape1214 wrote:
King Ken wrote:I feel some of the shots being thrown at R.J. just isn't right. R.J. was beating his man off of the dribble, he just couldn't do adjust to the help defense. None of them could. They are just freshmen. Early into the season freshmen as well.

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They're fully right. He has major warts that some people want to dismiss...but they shouldn't be. He has limited shot versatility, is a bad shooter overall, doesn't have burst on offense getting by man (needs screen), limited athleticism in space without head of steam, and can't finish in traffic...all that in addition to being too shot happy. He's been this way at every level he's played at.


Yeah. He suffers from the same issues as previously hyped HS SF's like Shabazz, Harrison Barnes and Wiggins. Straight line driver, no wiggle and shake to his game, bad handles, average acceleration and thus struggling heavily in the half court setting. On top of that he can't shoot, the only area where he's excelling rn is in the open court and when he's just bullying his way through weaker defenders. The latter won't work against NBA guys.
And he can't defend
And he's selfish
And he's inefficient
There's red flags all over the place.

We should learn of prior examples like the ones mentioned above and not be blinded by HS hype and dominating performances against 16 year olds. Would RJ be in the top 5 rn if he didn't have such hype coming out of High School?
Those guys weren't getting to the paint in college. Barrett is and consistency. Just because you want to say one thing doesn't mean I agree.

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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#263 » by The-Power » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:23 am

King Ken wrote:
BobThunder wrote:
King Ken wrote:I feel some of the shots being thrown at R.J. just isn't right. R.J. was beating his man off of the dribble, he just couldn't do adjust to the help defense. None of them could. They are just freshmen. Early into the season freshmen as well.

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He was? :-?
Yes, he was. He was getting in the paint everytime. He finished his dunks, just missed layups. In the NBA where there is no junk traffic, he would have been fine.

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Sorry, but that's just a weird view in my eyes. In the NBA, the size, length and athleticism of his defenders and the size around the rim would have caused him even more problems. NBA defenses are extremely underrated because of the narrative going on – there's a reason perimeter players tend to struggle to be efficient in the NBA at first, and that's because NBA defenses are a completely different animal compared to college.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#264 » by doordoor123 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:12 am

azcatz11 wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:
azcatz11 wrote:
Not trying to derail but thoughts on Rui? Do you think he’s a worthy top 10 pick.


He’s not. People are just riding wave.[/quote

Would you have him 1st rnd or do you think he’s just all hype?


I think he can definitely go in the lottery, but not a top 10 pick. But I think this is a weak draft. In a normal draft I’d have him somewhere between 15-22. He’s more likely going to be 10-15 in this draft.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#265 » by King Ken » Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:20 am

The-Power wrote:
King Ken wrote:
BobThunder wrote:He was? :-?
Yes, he was. He was getting in the paint everytime. He finished his dunks, just missed layups. In the NBA where there is no junk traffic, he would have been fine.

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Sorry, but that's just a weird view in my eyes. In the NBA, the size, length and athleticism of his defenders and the size around the rim would have caused him even more problems. NBA defenses are extremely underrated because of the narrative going on – there's a reason perimeter players tend to struggle to be efficient in the NBA at first, and that's because NBA defenses are a completely different animal compared to college.
I clearly view Barrett differently. He looks just fine to me. I watch a lot of college Basketball. I haven't seen a wing as skilled since Beal as a true Freshman and he didn't have the size or athletic ability of Barrett. I really think a lot of guys doing the talking in this thread are guys who usually don't watch College Basketball and never watch Freshman prospects, especially elite ones play

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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#266 » by NBA Fan 1234 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:27 am

King Ken wrote:
The-Power wrote:
King Ken wrote:Yes, he was. He was getting in the paint everytime. He finished his dunks, just missed layups. In the NBA where there is no junk traffic, he would have been fine.

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Sorry, but that's just a weird view in my eyes. In the NBA, the size, length and athleticism of his defenders and the size around the rim would have caused him even more problems. NBA defenses are extremely underrated because of the narrative going on – there's a reason perimeter players tend to struggle to be efficient in the NBA at first, and that's because NBA defenses are a completely different animal compared to college.
I clearly view Barrett differently. He looks just fine to me. I watch a lot of college Basketball. I haven't seen a wing as skilled since Beal as a true Freshman and he didn't have the size or athletic ability of Barrett. I really think a lot of guys doing the talking in this thread are guys who usually don't watch College Basketball and never watch Freshman prospects, especially elite ones play

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So you're basically dismissing other people's opinions and saying they don't know what they talking about because they disagree with what you're saying? I guarantee you watch less college basketball than myself (and don't have access to the same tools myself and others have) and guarantee you don't have the history scouting or actual work experience in an actual front office that I have, so can I dismiss what you're saying? (No, I just disagree vehemently.)

I'm not sure how you can maintain your position on RJ and in the same breath dismiss other people's opinions on RJ because they're not as high on him as you are. That's incredibly bizarre.

**Also, funny you bring up Beal. He actually had 1) athleticism and more shot creation/wiggle than RJ has 2) had way better shot selection c) was a better shooter and d) finished better around the paint. If we're talking archetype and baseline skills you have coming into the NBA, Beal checked more boxes than RJ does.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#267 » by King Ken » Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:00 am

Knickstape1214 wrote:
King Ken wrote:
The-Power wrote:Sorry, but that's just a weird view in my eyes. In the NBA, the size, length and athleticism of his defenders and the size around the rim would have caused him even more problems. NBA defenses are extremely underrated because of the narrative going on – there's a reason perimeter players tend to struggle to be efficient in the NBA at first, and that's because NBA defenses are a completely different animal compared to college.
I clearly view Barrett differently. He looks just fine to me. I watch a lot of college Basketball. I haven't seen a wing as skilled since Beal as a true Freshman and he didn't have the size or athletic ability of Barrett. I really think a lot of guys doing the talking in this thread are guys who usually don't watch College Basketball and never watch Freshman prospects, especially elite ones play

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So you're basically dismissing other people's opinions and saying they don't know what they talking about because they disagree with what you're saying? I guarantee you watch less college basketball than myself (and don't have access to the same tools myself and others have) and guarantee you don't have the history scouting or actual work experience in an actual front office that I have, so can I dismiss what you're saying? (No, I just disagree vehemently.)

I'm not sure how you can maintain your position on RJ and in the same breath dismiss other people's opinions on RJ because they're not as high on him as you are. That's incredibly bizarre.

**Also, funny you bring up Beal. He actually had 1) athleticism and more shot creation/wiggle than RJ has 2) had way better shot selection c) was a better shooter and d) finished better around the paint. If we're talking archetype and baseline skills you have coming into the NBA, Beal checked more boxes than RJ does.
Of course I am dismissing your opinion, the same way you are dismissing mines. I think what you wrote is nonsense. Of course I know I watch a ton of Basketball, college and pro and of course I feel like you saying you guarantee you do that and this is a hyperbole.

You think highly of your opinion and I think highly of my opinion. You want a cookie.

Back to Barrett. He has tremendous skill for his age and stage. He has gotten to the hole at will. Does he always finish and or handle in traffic well, no but for his age. He's advanced. I've watched a lot of Basketball, how many true freshman wings have been as skilled and talented as Barrett? Not many. Considering he has played one of the toughest schedules I've seen a true freshman play within his first 6 games, he has done extremely well for a wing prospect. Especially one with a inconsistent 3pt shot in the NCAAs.

His first step looks good.
His 2nd step looks great.
Good footwork in traffic.
Struggles at being crafty in traffic, lacks wiggle at this stage.
Best at attacking with momentum.
Quick explosiveness while slashing.
Can attack with either hand unlike Zion and Cam.
Inconsistent shooter.
Struggles with a hand in his face and far too often wants to attack when he has pressure for better or worse.
Slows the game down on the ball.
Gets tunnel vision when he wants to score.
Does move off the ball well but is always demanding for the ball and doesn't always let the game come to him.
Gets a lot of Westbrook/Kobe assists.
Good at passing in traffic when he wants to
Doesn't play within the system as much as he should.
Can be selfish but can be extremely selfish.
Handles lack an advance feel which is expected at his age for his size and position.
More polished than his teammates
Decision making might be an issue he may not overcome in his career.
Smart player but clearly has a lot to learn about team concepts, especially offensively.
The most advanced team defender on his team as a freshman with Jones. Zion and Cam are not advanced defensively. They play defense like freshmen. Jones and Barrett defend like they have fundamentals but both look like freshman too just more advanced.

Overall, I am very impressed with Barrett. Saying he is not a top 10 pick is trash to be honest. Makes me question your Basketball intellect. If you watch anywhere near as much as you claim, you would know freshman wings who are NBA prospects are generally far less advanced than this. He looks like Kobe if he came to Duke out of Lower Merion.

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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#268 » by NBA Fan 1234 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:03 am

Where did I say RJ is not a top 10 talent...? (Hint - I didn’t.)

Spoiler:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1740293&start=240#p70408910


Anyways, I think I’m just going to stop responding to you and let you do you. Take care, man.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#269 » by King Ken » Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:09 am

Knickstape1214 wrote:Where did I say RJ is not a top 10 talent...? (Hint - I didn’t.)

Spoiler:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1740293&start=240#p70408910


Anyways, I think I’m just going to stop responding to you and let you do you. Take care, man.

I thought you were the poster above saying that. Tapatalk makes it difficult to see who said what. That's a good idea. :wink:
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#270 » by mattg » Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:10 am

RJ gives me Derozan vibes as a prospect. I just think he has more confidence than a young Demar did.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#271 » by SeattleJazzFan » Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:34 am

Barrett is good, but damn, he's a gunner. that's good to a point - you have to love and encourage the aggression, but at the same time, he has really good teammates and he needs to learn when to tone it down. currently shooting 40% FGs and 30% 3pt. 37% FGs in his last 4. not good.

Barrett killed Duke tonight with his insistence on taking it to the hoop and jacking it up despite nothing being there - Zags jumped on it and they were easy stops.

on the season, Barrett has taken 125 shots, next closest on the team is Zion at 75 shots. that's with Zion being significantly more efficient.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#272 » by B-Ball Freak » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:32 am

I'm a Barrett fan but he needs to ease up on the ball hogging, they will be a lot better if he learns how to share the ball

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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#273 » by bennjuiced34 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:41 am

SeattleJazzFan wrote:Barrett is good, but damn, he's a gunner. that's good to a point - you have to love and encourage the aggression, but at the same time, he has really good teammates and he needs to learn when to tone it down. currently shooting 40% FGs and 30% 3pt. 37% FGs in his last 4. not good.

Barrett killed Duke tonight with his insistence on taking it to the hoop and jacking it up despite nothing being there - Zags jumped on it and they were easy stops.

on the season, Barrett has taken 125 shots, next closest on the team is Zion at 75 shots. that's with Zion being significantly more efficient.
You learn a lot about these kids in moments like that. Duke is still a super team. **** is gonna be very easy for them most of the year.

We saw that vs Kentucky. And while Zion, Barrett and Reddish should be evaluated individually I think there needs to be a balance with the team too.

They signed up to play together. To win a National Title. Anything short of that for this squad is a major failure.

But it's also not just about losing. It's how losses happen. Barrett sank his team down the stretch with hero ball.

Zion and Reddish have checked their egos. They've adapted. Time for Barrett to do that. You can appreciate a kid wanting the rock, wanting the pressure, trying to take over.

But at some point, after the first 2 attempts didn't work. You'd think Barrett would adjust. Figure out another way.

Maybe it's me but it showed 'I'm gonna prove it,' an ego moment. Curious to see how Barrett responds. Does he learn or is it something consistent in his profile?

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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#274 » by Duke4life831 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:22 am

bennjuiced34 wrote:
SeattleJazzFan wrote:Barrett is good, but damn, he's a gunner. that's good to a point - you have to love and encourage the aggression, but at the same time, he has really good teammates and he needs to learn when to tone it down. currently shooting 40% FGs and 30% 3pt. 37% FGs in his last 4. not good.

Barrett killed Duke tonight with his insistence on taking it to the hoop and jacking it up despite nothing being there - Zags jumped on it and they were easy stops.

on the season, Barrett has taken 125 shots, next closest on the team is Zion at 75 shots. that's with Zion being significantly more efficient.
You learn a lot about these kids in moments like that. Duke is still a super team. **** is gonna be very easy for them most of the year.

We saw that vs Kentucky. And while Zion, Barrett and Reddish should be evaluated individually I think there needs to be a balance with the team too.

They signed up to play together. To win a National Title. Anything short of that for this squad is a major failure.

But it's also not just about losing. It's how losses happen. Barrett sank his team down the stretch with hero ball.

Zion and Reddish have checked their egos. They've adapted. Time for Barrett to do that. You can appreciate a kid wanting the rock, wanting the pressure, trying to take over.

But at some point, after the first 2 attempts didn't work. You'd think Barrett would adjust. Figure out another way.

Maybe it's me but it showed 'I'm gonna prove it,' an ego moment. Curious to see how Barrett responds. Does he learn or is it something consistent in his profile?

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You would think having arguably the greatest college coach of all time could've helped here. K failed Duke as much if not more than RJ today in those final possessions.

I was watching with my family and my father that doesn't watch basketball after the 3rd attempt from RJ went, "why do they keep going to this guy, why don't they use the big kid?". Then on that final possession when Tre passed RJ the ball my dad went, "again with this kid? Really?" Sometimes even the casual of the casual fan can spot the most obvious things.

I think that sums up the final 4 possessions really well. The fact that K kept wanting RJ to run the offense those final possessions and was more than okay with RJ icing out everyone else was beyond stupid.

So ya those last 4 possessions I think sum up all the warts of RJ's game (no separation in the half court, bad jumper, tunnel vision). But I put a lot more blame on K for not correcting this in game. Moments like this is exactly where K should shine.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#275 » by lambchop » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:10 pm

2 players were open on his last drive. Just has to dish that to his left and the game goes to overtime
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#276 » by Don7 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:23 pm

- Bad defence
- Underwhelming playmaking
- Inefficient scorer (shot evaluation is ugh)
- Bad shooter (31% for 3 , 62% FT)

When people talk more about "alpha mentality" then actually play , you know it's not going to well.

JUST 5 games ! i understand , so give him more time.My problem with him more then just poor numbers is eye test , even the shot he makes looks so forced and ugly even for college level , that's not great.You would think that on team this stacked his playmaking would shine , but why do that when you can take 20 shots for 22 points without playing D.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#277 » by Dr Positivity » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:19 pm

Canada is really letting you guys down with these prospects, sorry about that
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#278 » by baca » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:45 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:Canada is really letting you guys down with these prospects, sorry about that

No hurt feeling. RJ is the winner in the past year, in fact he might not lose one single official game in the past year except All star games. He thought what he did will work since it always work.

I won't do the witch hunt to his hero ball and shot selection on the last day of the game. It is 16 hours after Auburn game, extremely difficult to make adjustment from him and the staff.

But he definitely need listen and know how to share the ball and do the correct things. K said in the video he taught Kobe to share the ball and made the open shot in Dream team 2008 , and it worked. Hope RJ learned the same way. If he did the same inefficient hero ball in ACC conference game, that is the time we throw him under the train.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#279 » by Stillwater » Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:24 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
bennjuiced34 wrote:
SeattleJazzFan wrote:Barrett is good, but damn, he's a gunner. that's good to a point - you have to love and encourage the aggression, but at the same time, he has really good teammates and he needs to learn when to tone it down. currently shooting 40% FGs and 30% 3pt. 37% FGs in his last 4. not good.

Barrett killed Duke tonight with his insistence on taking it to the hoop and jacking it up despite nothing being there - Zags jumped on it and they were easy stops.

on the season, Barrett has taken 125 shots, next closest on the team is Zion at 75 shots. that's with Zion being significantly more efficient.
You learn a lot about these kids in moments like that. Duke is still a super team. **** is gonna be very easy for them most of the year.

We saw that vs Kentucky. And while Zion, Barrett and Reddish should be evaluated individually I think there needs to be a balance with the team too.

They signed up to play together. To win a National Title. Anything short of that for this squad is a major failure.

But it's also not just about losing. It's how losses happen. Barrett sank his team down the stretch with hero ball.

Zion and Reddish have checked their egos. They've adapted. Time for Barrett to do that. You can appreciate a kid wanting the rock, wanting the pressure, trying to take over.

But at some point, after the first 2 attempts didn't work. You'd think Barrett would adjust. Figure out another way.

Maybe it's me but it showed 'I'm gonna prove it,' an ego moment. Curious to see how Barrett responds. Does he learn or is it something consistent in his profile?

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You would think having arguably the greatest college coach of all time could've helped here. K failed Duke as much if not more than RJ today in those final possessions.

I was watching with my family and my father that doesn't watch basketball after the 3rd attempt from RJ went, "why do they keep going to this guy, why don't they use the big kid?". Then on that final possession when Tre passed RJ the ball my dad went, "again with this kid? Really?" Sometimes even the casual of the casual fan can spot the most obvious things.

I think that sums up the final 4 possessions really well. The fact that K kept wanting RJ to run the offense those final possessions and was more than okay with RJ icing out everyone else was beyond stupid.

So ya those last 4 possessions I think sum up all the warts of RJ's game (no separation in the half court, bad jumper, tunnel vision). But I put a lot more blame on K for not correcting this in game. Moments like this is exactly where K should shine.

Barrett will learn from that more than he would otherwise I'm guessing he is resistant to being coached and K actually made it easier to get him to listen to him going forward.
Barrett will get over himself or he won't be considered a tier 1 or 2 prospect much longer.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#280 » by CptCrunch » Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:33 pm

I actually don't mind RJ chucking.

Chucking as a young prospect is a major predictor of superstardom. I think he has been missing a lot of shots he usually makes recently, a cold streak if you want to call it.

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