Andrew Wiggins is not a lock at #1?

ManualRam · Post #281 » by **ManualRam** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:06 pm

sikma42 wrote:
ManualRam wrote:wiggins' first step is not impressive. his 2nd or 3rd step is when he really explodes. that's when you see the burst or spin move.

there is one skill that wiggins is already elite at and that's his footwork in the open floor. his ability to knife through cracks with sidesteps and euro steps in transition is very pro level stuff.

This is my problem with the criticism of Wiggins. His second step or third step is better than his first step. But that doesnt his first is "not impressive." For instance it is quicker than Lebron's was at the same age.

i dont see that. lebron's first step was accentuated by his strength and ability to get low on his drives for his size (think shoulders down) . he could get that initial advantage via his quickness AND strength.

the quickness of wiggins' first step is not impressive and he doesn't have the strength or low center to consistently get leverage on that initial burst. he starts his drives upright.

Okada · Post #282 » by **Okada** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:01 am

Well then don't be surprised when Wiggins comes into the league next year and is good right away.

CBB_Fan · Post #283 » by **CBB_Fan** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:21 am

ManualRam wrote:wiggins' first step is not impressive. his 2nd or 3rd step is when he really explodes. that's when you see the burst or spin move.

there is one skill that wiggins is already elite at and that's his footwork in the open floor. his ability to knife through cracks with sidesteps and euro steps in transition is very pro level stuff.

I don't think his first step is unimpressive, I just think it is easy to gameplan around in the college game. He gets by his defender? Help defense. Gets in the lane? Another defender. Preferably play zone so that first help defender can easily get back to his man (or rotate another defender to cover him).

I think it is an interesting aspect of the information age. Ten years ago Wiggins would be a talented unknown. Now coaches have hours of videotape on him before he ever plays college ball. Doesn't affect Parker as much because he has a much bigger toolset (Wiggins really has about 4-5 moves that work really well, but needs to expand), doesn't Randle because he goes through defenders, not around them.

Hendrix · Post #284 » by **Hendrix** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:40 am

ManualRam wrote:wiggins' first step is not impressive. his 2nd or 3rd step is when he really explodes. that's when you see the burst or spin move.

there is one skill that wiggins is already elite at and that's his footwork in the open floor. his ability to knife through cracks with sidesteps and euro steps in transition is very pro level stuff.

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I disagree and agree. Ive been bringing up his lack of half court creation for years now.

A lot of the time he doesnt really explode off the dribble. He almost seems to 'probe'and test the waters before figuring out what to do next (spin move, pull up, etc...). However, there has been a couple plays that showed an elite first step when he tries to. I remember 1 play against duke that ended up wih a foul on the floor (so didnt make highlights or anything) but he exploded at an elite level with his 1st step and kinda showed me that he atleast had it in him. Hopefully he starts doing it more, but i think its there.

ManualRam · Post #285 » by **ManualRam** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:41 am

CBB_Fan wrote:
ManualRam wrote:wiggins' first step is not impressive. his 2nd or 3rd step is when he really explodes. that's when you see the burst or spin move.

there is one skill that wiggins is already elite at and that's his footwork in the open floor. his ability to knife through cracks with sidesteps and euro steps in transition is very pro level stuff.

I don't think his first step is unimpressive, I just think it is easy to gameplan around in the college game. He gets by his defender? Help defense. Gets in the lane? Another defender. Preferably play zone so that first help defender can easily get back to his man (or rotate another defender to cover him).

well to me his first step is unimpressive

Jaylee209 · Post #286 » by **Jaylee209** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:01 am

He can be a good player one day.

Okada · Post #287 » by **Okada** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:50 am

It just now occurred to me that Andrew Wiggins really, really reminds me of James Worthy.

miltk · Post #288 » by **miltk** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:19 am

didn't everyone settle on parker as the #1

Post #289 » by **DayofMourning** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:06 pm

snoopdogg88 wrote:This is the nature of the beast the NBA created when they pushed the age limit.

Now for a full year, the masses get to nitpick and overanalyze the heck out of the major prospects while they act as sacrificial lambs in college

I'm not saying some of it isn't fair criticism, but I have a funny feeling a year or two from people will look back and wonder why the heck they were sooo critical of guys like Wiggins and Parker.

This should have been imposed before Darius Miles, the savior of Clipperdom, was drafted.

OleSchool · Post #290 » by **OleSchool** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:59 pm

Ive been saying this for a while now, the problem isn't Wiggins or his talent. Its the damn medias fault who are CONSTANTLY looking for the next Jordan/James. They built this kid up and raised everyones expectations to see this "savior" and he isn't what the media made him out to be. Can he get there?? IDK but when I watch him I see a kid who is great defensively, an athlete, an unselfish player but a player who can really hit the J with consistency yet and a guy who handles aren't that great. Can he develop them? sure but how long will it take?

PaperLantern · Post #291 » by **PaperLantern** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:36 pm

miltk wrote:didn't everyone settle on parker as the #1

Way too early to settle imo.

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miltk · Post #292 » by **miltk** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:39 pm

OleSchool wrote:Ive been saying this for a while now, the problem isn't Wiggins or his talent. Its the damn medias fault who are CONSTANTLY looking for the next Jordan/James. They built this kid up and raised everyones expectations to see this "savior" and he isn't what the media made him out to be. Can he get there?? IDK but when I watch him I see a kid who is great defensively, an athlete, an unselfish player but a player who can really hit the J with consistency yet and a guy who handles aren't that great. Can he develop them? sure but how long will it take?

if you go by the law of averages, it's too early for "the next lebron", especially when lebron is still playing

.

that won't happen for another decade

Effercon · Post #293 » by **Effercon** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:49 am

At the moment (in my opinion):

1. Parker
2. Embiid
3. Wiggins
4. Randle
5. Exum
6. Smart

LUUUKE · Post #294 » by **LUUUKE** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:54 am

They did it to MJ too! I remember an all star game where they kept labeling kobe as the next MJ and MJ was in the damn game lol

EMG518 · Post #295 » by **EMG518** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:20 pm

There is just no way I could pass on a guy who is going to have the potential to be an elite 2 way player for an elite 1 way player. Parker defensively will never be close to Wiggins but Wiggins is so raw offensively, he can bridge the gap when his skills start to catch up to his athleticism.

rockmanslim · Post #296 » by **rockmanslim** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:35 am

In case you missed the New Mexico game:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4mByJgOhtA[/youtube]

Big_C_KU · Post #297 » by **Big_C_KU** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:59 pm

Wiggins struggled in the New Mexico game mostly with finishing and effort on defense. He got best several times playing to upright. On offense instead of trying to go through the opponent to the goal (with the new emphasis on contact you would always try to go through your opponent) he made shots more difficult moving away or to the side of the rim. He needs to play stronger than he does and he needs better touch around the rim.

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rockmanslim · Post #298 » by **rockmanslim** » Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:20 pm

Wiggins vs Georgetown:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhO43ElKp04[/youtube]

Ayt · Post #299 » by **Ayt** » Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:59 pm

sikma42 wrote:People are really going overboard. Wiggins has a bunch of gifts that the others don't have. The way he explodes by people and finishes is something you don't see much HISTORICALLY. right now, people are just being contrarian. Just wait and watch this kids talent develop...

He isn't particularly good at getting by his man off the bounce unless it is in a catch and slash situation where his defender is off balance or out of position. I'd also say that finishing at the rim is something he needs to improve on. He isn't good at finishing when contested in the paint.

I'd really be interested in seeing his iso stats so far this year. Hopefully DX puts together an updated scouting video with those stats.

Ayt · Post #300 » by **Ayt** » Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:12 pm

snoopdogg88 wrote:This is the nature of the beast the NBA created when they pushed the age limit.

Now for a full year, the masses get to nitpick and overanalyze the heck out of the major prospects while they act as sacrificial lambs in college

I'm not saying some of it isn't fair criticism, but I have a funny feeling a year or two from people will look back and wonder why the heck they were sooo critical of guys like Wiggins and Parker.

The rule was changed so scouts and GMs could better analyze the major prospects. In terms of having the ability to better evaluate prospects, it was a phenomenal change.