Future draft classes

[Marcus]

so while making the rounds to get to know what the future holds for NBA talent I came upon a prospect i hadn't previously seen before.

I've always felt that the Julius Randle/Z-Bo comparison was a bit of a reach, outside of them both being left-handed and playing the same position i didn't really see it to much. Yeah "bully ball" is the thing everybody wants to point to but Z-Bo presents counters and some finesse in his game as well and as we saw down the stretch of this past season Julius looks a bit more comfy facing and going from a little further out.

If the Z-Bo esque player is what you want. look no further than Caleb Swanigan

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQT9VRj0uy8[/youtube]

I'm new to the kid hadn't seen much of him till recently. First thing i thought was Z-Bo though. plays below the rim, scores over size, rebounds like a beast even though far less athletic than most of his counterparts, good counters, carves space, setshot jumper. Looking at older vids seems like he slimmed down and toned up some if he continues with that i think we might be able to add another name to the new generation of bigs hitting the league over the next few years.

share thoughts if you got um

[ManualRam]

i can see the comparison a little bit, but i think what made z-bo so unique was his bulk/bully style combined with his agile feet. he had really nimble feet for a guy 260+. i don't quite see the dancing bear feet with swanigan.

[Marcus]

i can see the comparison a little bit, but i think what made z-bo so unique was his bulk/bully style combined with his agile feet. he had really nimble feet for a guy 260+. i don't quite see the dancing bear feet with swanigan.

Out of the elite bigs in high school right now how many do you project to be NBA players?

I wanna say that the "bigman" talent in the league is going to get some much needed depth over the next few years. From Okafor, to Rabb, to Azuibuike, etc etc. Not saying all will be all-star or superstar talents but do you think its realistic to say somewhere between 5-10 bigs could be the catalyst to the remergence of the traditional 4 and 5 position in the league?

[ManualRam]

i can see the comparison a little bit, but i think what made z-bo so unique was his bulk/bully style combined with his agile feet. he had really nimble feet for a guy 260+. i don't quite see the dancing bear feet with swanigan.

Out of the elite bigs in high school right now how many do you project to be NBA players?

I wanna say that the "bigman" talent in the league is going to get some much needed depth over the next few years. From Okafor, to Rabb, to Azuibuike, etc etc. Not saying all will be all-star or superstar talents but do you think its realistic to say somewhere between 5-10 bigs could be the catalyst to the remergence of the traditional 4 and 5 position in the league?

i'm not sure what you're asking here. elite bigs in HS are pretty much already NBA prospects.
i think nba frontcourts are fine and aren't in need of a reemergence.
in 2015, as far as nba prospects there are guys already discussed like the names you named, diamond stone, cheick diallo, zimmerman, jeter, ellenson, maker etc.

besides the prospects already talked about in this thread i like:
deyonta davis- springy, good athlete, runs the floor very well. could be the best shooter among the bigs in this class.
daniel giddens- long, physical. future C frame. one of the best big man defenders in the class both in the post and in terms of shot blocking. not much offense, but shows a good feel passing and finishing.
de'ron davis-has one of the most versatile offensive games in either '15 or '16. runs the floor well, can post with very good footwork or take his game to the perimeter.

[Marcus]

i'm not sure what you're asking here. elite bigs in HS are pretty much already NBA prospects.
i think nba frontcourts are fine and aren't in need of a reemergence.
in 2015, as far as nba prospects there are guys already discussed like the names you named, diamond stone, cheick diallo, zimmerman, jeter, ellenson, maker etc.

besides the prospects already talked about in this thread i like:
deyonta davis- springy, good athlete, runs the floor very well. could be the best shooter among the bigs in this class.
daniel giddens- long, physical. future C frame. one of the best big man defenders in the class both in the post and in terms of shot blocking. not much offense, but shows a good feel passing and finishing.
de'ron davis-has one of the most versatile offensive games in either '15 or '16. runs the floor well, can post with very good footwork or take his game to the perimeter.

to me, guys like Okafor and Rabb look like franchise bigs and guys to build around.

Guys like Diallo, Zimm, and Jeter look like good additions to a NBA team but not cornerstone guys.

Azubuike's growth, both physically and with his game could land him in either bracket.

Towns and Turner depending on how their inside games develop could also be lumped in there.

I guess its more of where do guys land in the bigman hieracrchy in the NBA, 5-6 years from now are we talking 1 to 2 guys holding the crown for best big in the league or will it be arguable between a couple handfulls because the talent at the position has grown so much.

sidenote: haven't seen either one of the davis' you mentioned in here, still gotta check them out. Giddens sounds like he's got a Tyson Chandler outlook going for him.

[EricAnderson]

i think nba frontcourts are fine and aren't in need of a reemergence.
.[/quote]

Id disagree in terms of the dominant back tothe basket big man which we dont currently have

[Marcus]

de'ron davis-has one of the most versatile offensive games in either '15 or '16. runs the floor well, can post with very good footwork or take his game to the perimeter.

reminds me of Al Horford with the way he moves. but yeah looks like a pretty versatile game he plays. Looks bigger than his listed 230 though. First couple post ups i saw looked like bully ball but then i saw the baseline spin which was pretty with the setup and I thought the space he created before his jump hook was textbook. Looked more fluid in the second vid than he did in the first vid.

I'll keep an eye on him.

sidenote: was watching some clips from the 100 camp and Perry Dozier was mixed in there his ball handling on the break looked so smooth and fluid then he dropped this beautiful no look to De'Aaron Fox. The reports are he can play anything from 1 to 3 and I think you mentioned that 2 would be his long term position. From what i've seen I think going forward kid needs to stay on the ball and play the 1. He gives me that Penny vibe.

[ManualRam]

i think nba frontcourts are fine and aren't in need of a reemergence.
.

Id disagree in terms of the dominant back tothe basket big man which we dont currently have

that's not the direction the game is going and hasn't been for a while. having one is a bonus, but not a necessity.

[EricAnderson]

i think nba frontcourts are fine and aren't in need of a reemergence.
.

Id disagree in terms of the dominant back tothe basket big man which we dont currently have

that's not the direction the game is going and hasn't been for a while. having one is a bonus, but not a necessity.

ehh i dont think the game is going away from it its moreso that there are no great ones currently if there where theyd be just as dominant..

It wasnt that long ago when Shaq and Duncan were ruling in the early and mid 2000's that people said you couldnt win without a great big man now people are saying the opposite neither is true if you get a dominant generational player at almost any positon hes gonna win titles well except maybe pg lol

[ManualRam]

Id disagree in terms of the dominant back tothe basket big man which we dont currently have

that's not the direction the game is going and hasn't been for a while. having one is a bonus, but not a necessity.

ehh i dont think the game is going away from it its moreso that there are no great ones currently if there where theyd be just as dominant..

It wasnt that long ago when Shaq and Duncan were ruling in the early and mid 2000's that people said you couldnt win without a great big man now people are saying the opposite neither is true if you get a dominant generational player at almost any positon hes gonna win titles well except maybe pg lol

nobody's saying the opposite is true, just that a post presence isn't a necessity. a perimeter player who can consistently get into the paint and collapse the defense or effective PnR play is just as good as an inside out game. just look at the evolution of the spurs offense. TDs still good enough to throw the ball down to and run offense through, but the spurs aren't an amazing offensive machine because of that. they didn't become an offensive juggernaut until pop opened up the paint, made it a less TD-centric offense, allowed them to push the ball looking for quick hitters and drive and kicks.
also, defensive philosophies have changed, even since the prime shaq era. defenses are much quicker to bring the doubles and force offenses into scramble mode.
the younger generation sees how the game is played and develop accordingly. that's why a physical, once in a generation physical beast like drummond idolized and wanted to play like KD.
the j.okafor's of the world are a rare bird.

[Marcus]

ray smith out of vegas who imo is a better player than dorsey as well.

been watching more of Ray Smith and I'm expecting him to make huge strides this year. Like his length and athleticism and the way he gets his own shot.

Cant wait to see how far he and Perry Dozier come along heading into their frosh college years.

[ManualRam]

kid didn't play much AAU, but he's killing all the camps. i think he's moving closer to top 10 status in a loaded class.
i'm hoping he goes to a school like michigan that knows how to develop points...not that other blue.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/EvanDaniels/status/484481134517309441[/tweet]

[ManualRam]

ray smith out of vegas who imo is a better player than dorsey as well.

been watching more of Ray Smith and I'm expecting him to make huge strides this year. Like his length and athleticism and the way he gets his own shot.

Cant wait to see how far he and Perry Dozier come along heading into their frosh college years.

as far as SFS go ( i consider simmons more of a tweener leaning towards PF) in the class of '15, i think it goes:
jaylen brown, ray smith and derrick jones. i haven't seen enough of ingram to rank him, but jones' tools are off the charts and his skill level is gradually improving.

another note on ray smith. i read that he released his top 9 schools and UNLV wasn't on it. i'm not sure if it is supposed to be a given that UNLV is in the mix because i'm sure he's made multiple visits to the campus, but i did not see him name UNLV. i'm thinking 'zona is the favorite.

[reanimator]

UK has jumped in the Ray Smith recruitment http://zagsblog.com/articles/ray-smith- ... luctuates/

[NO-KG-AI]

On the topic of "dominant, back to the basket bigs"... how many have their ever been? It's not really a "direction" that the league has ever been in. Everyone wanted or wants one, and very few teams in history ever get one.

[miltk]

...............

manualR.
what do you think of my bruins'
looney, welsh, bolden,,,,and in 2yrs lonzo ball?

[ManualRam]

...............

manualR.
what do you think of my bruins'
looney, welsh, bolden,,,,and in 2yrs lonzo ball?

i really like bolden. i think he has a ton of upside. thin as a rail, but i like his combination of iq, length, activity, shooting stroke and passing. sleeper potential, but he needs to bulk up.

looney will be good for your program. he looks more like a 2-3 yr player to me and i'm not sure which direction he wants to go position wise, but he's got 2 way potential. somewhat similar to mcadoo, but i think he has much better touch.

i haven't seen too much of welsh and what i have wasn't that impressive. skill-wise he has the basics, but i think he's a project physically. he's slow and unathletic, but he'll be a good core guy for UCLA.

lonzo is a very unique player. kinda hard to evaluate because he goes for a lot of home run, flashy plays. doesn't look like he should be able to shoot it well with that stroke, but from a stand still he's got deep range. very right handed and can be loose with the ball. he's got unique vision though. love seeing PGs who make hit ahead and skip passes which he does. i'd just like to see him tighten up his game a little bit, but it's obvious he has a mind for the game. he just needs to keep things simple.

you didn't mention aaron holiday, but i like his game as well. he's got similar tendencies to jrue in that he's a bulldog defensively. he's a little on the short side but he's got holiday arms. he's more athletic than jrue, has good body strength and is aggressive attacking the cup. he already knows how to draw fouls. i think he's underrated for his class.

[miltk]

...............

manualR.
what do you think of my bruins'
looney, welsh, bolden,,,,and in 2yrs lonzo ball?

i really like bolden. i think he has a ton of upside. thin as a rail, but i like his combination of iq, length, activity, shooting stroke and passing. sleeper potential, but he needs to bulk up.

looney will be good for your program. he looks more like a 2-3 yr player to me and i'm not sure which direction he wants to go position wise, but he's got 2 way potential. somewhat similar to mcadoo, but i think he has much better touch.

i haven't seen too much of welsh and what i have wasn't that impressive. skill-wise he has the basics, but i think he's a project physically. he's slow and unathletic, but he'll be a good core guy for UCLA.

lonzo is a very unique player. kinda hard to evaluate because he goes for a lot of home run, flashy plays. doesn't look like he should be able to shoot it well with that stroke, but from a stand still he's got deep range. very right handed and can be loose with the ball. he's got unique vision though. love seeing PGs who make hit ahead and skip passes which he does. i'd just like to see him tighten up his game a little bit, but it's obvious he has a mind for the game. he just needs to keep things simple.

you didn't mention aaron holiday, but i like his game as well. he's got similar tendencies to jrue in that he's a bulldog defensively. he's a little on the short side but he's got holiday arms. he's more athletic than jrue, has good body strength and is aggressive attacking the cup. he already knows how to draw fouls. i think he's underrated for his class.

i don't know if you just do evaluative work with recruits, but do you also do recruiting rumors? if so, what was the deal with dorsey decommitting from zona? i've heard he's kind of a problem player. do you have an idea of where he's leaning?

thx

[Marcus]

as far as SFS go ( i consider simmons more of a tweener leaning towards PF) in the class of '15, i think it goes:
jaylen brown, ray smith and derrick jones. i haven't seen enough of ingram to rank him, but jones' tools are off the charts and his skill level is gradually improving.

another note on ray smith. i read that he released his top 9 schools and UNLV wasn't on it. i'm not sure if it is supposed to be a given that UNLV is in the mix because i'm sure he's made multiple visits to the campus, but i did not see him name UNLV. i'm thinking 'zona is the favorite.

hadn't seen much of Derrick Jones but long athletic lefty wing does bode well. we'll see how accurate your predictions turn out.

If Zona lands Rabb, Zimm, and Smith to go along with Simon it could get realllllll ugly reallllll soon.

[ManualRam]

manualR.
what do you think of my bruins'
looney, welsh, bolden,,,,and in 2yrs lonzo ball?

i really like bolden. i think he has a ton of upside. thin as a rail, but i like his combination of iq, length, activity, shooting stroke and passing. sleeper potential, but he needs to bulk up.

looney will be good for your program. he looks more like a 2-3 yr player to me and i'm not sure which direction he wants to go position wise, but he's got 2 way potential. somewhat similar to mcadoo, but i think he has much better touch.

i haven't seen too much of welsh and what i have wasn't that impressive. skill-wise he has the basics, but i think he's a project physically. he's slow and unathletic, but he'll be a good core guy for UCLA.

lonzo is a very unique player. kinda hard to evaluate because he goes for a lot of home run, flashy plays. doesn't look like he should be able to shoot it well with that stroke, but from a stand still he's got deep range. very right handed and can be loose with the ball. he's got unique vision though. love seeing PGs who make hit ahead and skip passes which he does. i'd just like to see him tighten up his game a little bit, but it's obvious he has a mind for the game. he just needs to keep things simple.

you didn't mention aaron holiday, but i like his game as well. he's got similar tendencies to jrue in that he's a bulldog defensively. he's a little on the short side but he's got holiday arms. he's more athletic than jrue, has good body strength and is aggressive attacking the cup. he already knows how to draw fouls. i think he's underrated for his class.

i don't know if you just do evaluative work with recruits, but do you also do recruiting rumors? if so, what was the deal with dorsey decommitting from zona? i've heard he's kind of a problem player. do you have an idea of where he's leaning?

thx

i follow recruiting rumors somewhat too. idk if dorsey is a problem player, but i do know that his teams in HS have underachieved despite being supremely talented (even his AAU team is a talented barely above .500 team). the main issue with dorsey though is that he wants to transition to the full-time point and has been doing so for the past yr or so. he wants the ball in his hands so if your school already has a PG in the fold that he deems as a real threat as justin simon was at 'zona, then that reduces the likelihood that he'll want to go there. i also heard that he's thinking 1 and done, so he wants a ton of minutes at the 1 ASAP.
last i heard, kansas is coming after him hard, but he'll likely run into an issue there too since frank mason is likely a 4 yr guy there and 5 yr prep devonte graham who could be the starter this yr. that being said, they seem like lesser obstacles than what he'd encounter at other schools.

i personally think he's overrated for his class and not that great of an NBA prospect, especially as a PG. good shooter, with a nice pull up game but i'm unsure if i'd want him on the ball because he has a tendency to hunt his own offense. i think the bruins are fine with holiday and ball in a couple of yrs should dorsey pass on them.