Frank Ntilikina

Curmudgeon · Post #281 » by **Curmudgeon** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:46 pm

Fischella wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:

He is super impressive to me, can't quite remember a perimeter player his age with this tools and upside coming from Europe honestly.

Doncic. Different tools, though.

damecurry · Post #282 » by **damecurry** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:11 pm

I mean, what does George Hil have that Frank N. doesn't? Answer that for me. Is he really that much quicker/more athletic? I know he's sort of a bulldog but latest accounts are Frank's really developing that mentality as well so I don't see why he doesn't become a bigger G. Hill. That seems like a very obvious comp I haven't really heard. Frank's extra heigth and length make that role a lot more viable too because he can just play straight 2 if that's what you want from him and be an above-average creator at that spot. And I'd be very happy with that around 8-10, maybe even a bit higher. But I would never take him over DSJ who is being criminally underrated because of a crappy situation.

Curmudgeon · Post #283 » by **Curmudgeon** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:40 pm

DSJ is being underrated because he loafs on defense. Fultz ought to be rated lower for the same reason, but he isn't and I'm not sure why.

As for Ball, his lack of lateral mobility will be exposed in the NBA. He's no Jason Kidd at the defensive end, that's for sure.

MotownMadness · Post #284 » by **MotownMadness** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:04 pm

damecurry wrote:I mean, what does George Hil have that Frank N. doesn't? Answer that for me. Is he really that much quicker/more athletic? I know he's sort of a bulldog but latest accounts are Frank's really developing that mentality as well so I don't see why he doesn't become a bigger G. Hill. That seems like a very obvious comp I haven't really heard. Frank's extra heigth and length make that role a lot more viable too because he can just play straight 2 if that's what you want from him and be an above-average creator at that spot. And I'd be very happy with that around 8-10, maybe even a bit higher. But I would never take him over DSJ who is being criminally underrated because of a crappy situation.

I think that's a good comparison. Can beat you with high IQ instead of blowing by guys. I really like Ntilikina though. Defense is my thing and wingspan. Lots of players are capable of defending but very few fully embrace that side and he seems too.

Curmudgeon · Post #285 » by **Curmudgeon** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:37 pm

Geez, Ntilikina blew by every player in Europe when he was playing against guys his own age. If you just base your projection on physical tools, the sky is the limit with this kid. The issue is maturation, that's all.

Mirotic12 · Post #286 » by **Mirotic12** » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:17 am

Curmudgeon wrote:Geez, Ntilikina blew by every player in Europe when he was playing against guys his own age. If you just base your projection on physical tools, the sky is the limit with this kid. The issue is maturation, that's all.

He averaged like 5 points a game, and while French Pro A and BCL are solid European leagues, they are both far from the level of the EuroLeague.

He didn't play well at all in the season, other than a good game every once and then, here and there. He's only 18, so that's perfectly normal for anyone that age playing at that level of competition.

But let's not pretend that he's some sure fire pick that is going to produce going forward. He has talent, but he hasn't even shown enough yet to prove he would even be a good EuroLeague player. Maturation is not the only issue with him. He's a gamble and a project, like any other 18 year old kid.

Curmudgeon · Post #287 » by **Curmudgeon** » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:18 pm

The guys at the top of this draft are almost all teenagers with a year of college ball. I guess Jackson and Ball are 20 but the others are younger. Ntilikina is no more of a project than most of the others. As for his numbers, the fact that youngsters are not showcased by European teams has been discussed here ad nauseum.

The-Power · Post #288 » by **The-Power** » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:00 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Geez, Ntilikina blew by every player in Europe when he was playing against guys his own age.

He did not. At least not in FIBA U18.

Pinkyring · Post #289 » by **Pinkyring** » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:12 pm

13 points 5 for 9 shooting 4 bds 3 asst today

cedric76 · Post #290 » by **cedric76** » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:02 pm

Another good game from frank in a very close game

http://www.lnb.fr/fr/Pro-A/200009/Resultat-match/12219/Chalon-Saone-Strasbourg

Série 1-1

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sportscrazy · Post #291 » by **sportscrazy** » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:43 pm

I have been saying for a while now that the top 6 seems to be set already with Markelle Fultz, Lonzo Ball, Josh Jackson and De'Aaron Fox all going top 5 100% then Jonathan Isaac or Jayson Tatum being the fifth player in the top 5 and Orlando taking whichever of those two drops to 6th Overall.

However, the draft never goes just as every one expects. It's very rare to see that happen at least. I could see one of the big surprises from this draft being Orlando seeing a run on point guards and taking Frank Ntilikina at 6th Overall.

Curmudgeon · Post #292 » by **Curmudgeon** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:46 am

The-Power wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Geez, Ntilikina blew by every player in Europe when he was playing against guys his own age.

He did not. At least not in FIBA U18.

Did you watch the championship game? It's available in its entirety on Youtube, or at least it was. There was absolutely no doubt as to who was the best player on the floor.

The-Power · Post #293 » by **The-Power** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:54 am

Curmudgeon wrote:
The-Power wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Geez, Ntilikina blew by every player in Europe when he was playing against guys his own age.

He did not. At least not in FIBA U18.

Did you watch the championship game? It's available in its entirety on Youtube, or at least it was. There was absolutely no doubt as to who was the best player on the floor.

I'm extremely high on Frank and watched all the available footage I have access to. I love him as a prospect but blowing past players and then getting to and finishing at the rim are areas he must improve on because that has been relatively underwhelming even when he was the primary ballhandler. You can see that he's much more comfortable resorting to his jumpshot at this point.

edit: I've already written quite a bit about him a couple months ago, but here's one of the takes I had on him in this thread.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=53777647#p53777647

Spoiler:

I can only speak about Ntilikina but there are some things about Frank that stand out besides his length. Well, length must be mentioned explicitly when talking about Ntilikina because he has crazy long arms - he's not just long, he's very long.

So, when talking about Frank's potential we're talking about the full package.

1) Defense. Ntilikina is extremely disruptive on defense both man-to-man and in the lanes (although he could improve in this regard). Down the road he's going to be able to check 1's, 2's and most 3's. His defensive versatility combined with the tools (and mindset) to be elite in each task assigned to him makes him so intriguing on that end.

2) Shooting/Off-ball play. Ntilikina has shown that he can play off the ball in a reduced role as well as a primary ballhandler in the FIBA U18 tournament. In both roles he's shown good signs as a shooter. He can not only pull up as the ballhandler, he's also a capable catch-and-shoot player who - and this can't be understated - really understands to get into the spots where he can catch and shoot with off-ball movement. He's not someone who runs through screens á la Redick, Korver, Thompson etc. but he moves smartly.

3) PnR-potential. Arguably the most understated aspect of his game. He's really a cerebral playmaker in the PnR who plays under control and finds the rolling bigs, shooters at the perimeter or pulls up himself. Not a great game manager but he should definitely be able to run the PnR at the next level and that's very valuable in today's NBA.

Of course he has to work on a lot of things. He needs to tighten up his handles and he must work on finishing around the rim if he wants to be a PG or 15+PPG scorer in the NBA. Without that he can't break down defenses and will struggle to get to the rim and/or get good looks there. He's quick but doesn't have an overwhelming first step. His shooting ability will help him to find room for penetration but right now he can't exploit it. Also his motor could be higher despite him being a good defender. He plays on both ends in that he'll do what's asked of him consistently but he often doesn't find the next gear great players usually display frequently during games.

Ntilikina should be at the very least a good 3&D player at the wing with smart playmaking and good but not elite shooting - that's a great baseline. Considering his age and potential in all areas his ceiling is obviously higher. Could be great as one of two primary playmakers on the floor and a high-level combo guard on both ends of the floor.

rygar · Post #294 » by **rygar** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:54 am

LOL playing for the team full of sub d-league talent like AJ Slaughter and Erik Murphy, and still not their best player. I'm not very high on this dude.

UcanUwill · Post #295 » by **UcanUwill** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:23 am

Curmudgeon wrote:
The-Power wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Geez, Ntilikina blew by every player in Europe when he was playing against guys his own age.

He did not. At least not in FIBA U18.

Did you watch the championship game? It's available in its entirety on Youtube, or at least it was. There was absolutely no doubt as to who was the best player on the floor.

He had great semifinal against Italy, and final against Lithuania, but in prior matches he struggled. I am also very high on him, I am just saying.

Mirotic12 · Post #296 » by **Mirotic12** » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:29 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:The guys at the top of this draft are almost all teenagers with a year of college ball. I guess Jackson and Ball are 20 but the others are younger. Ntilikina is no more of a project than most of the others. As for his numbers, the fact that youngsters are not showcased by European teams has been discussed here ad nauseum.

It has been shown ad nauseum that's a myth created by NBA fans that never watch any European basketball.

It's proven again as a myth, with Ntilikina having very good playing time all season long, and it being implied here he didn't get good playing time, even though he did.

It's been said here over and over and over...the best players in Europe usually get about 25 minutes of playing time a game on average. Yet somehow 18 year old kids getting 20 minutes a game, "are benched for no reason in Europe because they never let any young players play there"......

They are not "not showcased", even though when at high school age, they are playing in the main rotation of a senior men's professional club team....while if they were in the USA, they would be playing in high school (evidently, playing in high school is "showcasing"...).

Yeah, it's a myth and totally untrue, and it has been shown to be that here ad nauseum.

rygar wrote:LOL playing for the team full of sub d-league talent like AJ Slaughter and Erik Murphy, and still not their best player. I'm not very high on this dude.

SIG would destroy every single D-League team that ever existed.

Post #297 » by **Klomp** » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:49 am

damecurry wrote:I mean, what does George Hil have that Frank N. doesn't? Answer that for me. Is he really that much quicker/more athletic? I know he's sort of a bulldog but latest accounts are Frank's really developing that mentality as well so I don't see why he doesn't become a bigger G. Hill. That seems like a very obvious comp I haven't really heard. Frank's extra heigth and length make that role a lot more viable too because he can just play straight 2 if that's what you want from him and be an above-average creator at that spot. And I'd be very happy with that around 8-10, maybe even a bit higher. But I would never take him over DSJ who is being criminally underrated because of a crappy situation.

As far as PG skillsets go, Hill is a pretty good comparison for Ntilikina. But at a couple inches taller with a wingspan that's four inches longer, Ntilikina has the versatility to play both guard positions, as you said.

His defensive ability and positional flexibility gives him a path to immediate playing time on the right team. That's without even developing much on offense. If that happens, a player like that can make a quick ascension to be one of the best in the league.

I honestly don't even think of Ntilikina as a PG. If that happens, that's just another step up he can take in his potential.

cedric76 · Post #298 » by **cedric76** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:35 am

Série is 2-2 . Game five is the 23rd so he won't be present at draft

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Post #299 » by **Klomp** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:27 pm

cedric76 wrote:Game five is the 23rd so he won't be present at draft

That's incorrect.

Read on Twitter

Game 5 is slated for Friday, the day after the draft, but Ntilikina may stay in New York. His French agent, Olivier Mazet, told The Post in recent days no decision has been made whether Ntilikina will make it back for Game 5 in France.

http://nypost.com/2017/06/19/knicks-pg-target-flying-to-draft-with-french-mission-unfinished/

doordoor123 · Post #300 » by **doordoor123** » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:30 pm

Klomp wrote:
cedric76 wrote:Game five is the 23rd so he won't be present at draft

That's incorrect.

Read on Twitter

Game 5 is slated for Friday, the day after the draft, but Ntilikina may stay in New York. His French agent, Olivier Mazet, told The Post in recent days no decision has been made whether Ntilikina will make it back for Game 5 in France.

http://nypost.com/2017/06/19/knicks-pg-target-flying-to-draft-with-french-mission-unfinished/

That sucks.