Alperen Şengün

[Charm]

I don't think he'll replicate it; I agree that AK was a GOAT-tier defensive wing, so Franz could fall short of that and still be really good. I just think he's a similar type of player. A big, lanky wing who goes all-out on defense and fills a high-IQ glue guy sort of role on offense.

I don't get the AK comp then... AK's rim-protection is his defining characteristic and Franz ain't got it. It's like comparing Steph to a non-shooter, all the rest may kinda make sense in the abstract, but without the key element the whole package is completely different.

If the comp is - big (I wouldn't describe Franz as lanky) wing who plays good defense and plugs holes on offense then AK shouldn't be the guy.

You don't think Franz is a rim protector? Again, not saying he's AK level, but his shot blocking is one of his defining traits in my mind (compared to e.g. Barnes who plays much more like a pure guard defensively and doesn't think like a rim protector at all). I thought Franz filled that role admirably when Dickinson was on the bench, and in general I was impressed with his ability to adapt and provide whatever Michigan needed on defense.

That's a big selling point for him relative to Mitchell, another roleplayer type who's also a good defender in specific matchups but is fairly limited in what he can do. Franz can plug in and make virtually any lineup a better defensive lineup.

EDIT: Maybe I should abandon the (poor man's) AK comp...having trouble coming up with a better one though. Considered Otto Porter, but Wagner's just so much bouncier and more energetic on D.

[Mirotic12]

Official measurements:

Nikola Jokic

Height: 6-10 1/2 barefoot
Wingspan: 7-3

Andrei Kirilenko
Height: 6-9 barefoot
Wingspan: 7-6

Kevin Love
Height: 6-8 barefoot
Wingspan: 6-11

Alperen Sengun
Height: 6-10 barefoot
Wingspan: 7-0

[EvanZ]

You don't think Franz is a rim protector? Again, not saying he's AK level, but his shot blocking is one of his defining traits in my mind (compared to e.g. Barnes who plays much more like a pure guard defensively and doesn't think like a rim protector at all). I thought Franz filled that role admirably when Dickinson was on the bench, and in general I was impressed with his ability to adapt and provide whatever Michigan needed on defense.

How is a guy who averaged 1 block per game *in college* going to be a rim protector in the NBA? It just doesn't work that way.

[EvanZ]

Getting back to Sengun, another comp for him is Scola.

[Charm]

You don't think Franz is a rim protector? Again, not saying he's AK level, but his shot blocking is one of his defining traits in my mind (compared to e.g. Barnes who plays much more like a pure guard defensively and doesn't think like a rim protector at all). I thought Franz filled that role admirably when Dickinson was on the bench, and in general I was impressed with his ability to adapt and provide whatever Michigan needed on defense.

How is a guy who averaged 1 block per game *in college* going to be a rim protector in the NBA? It just doesn't work that way.

In the modern NBA, wings end up in situations where they have to protect the rim just as often as bigs end up in situations where they have to move their feet on the perimeter.

There are less versatile wings who're next to useless if they're put in a position to defend the rim, and there are more versatile wings like Wagner who will reliably wall up and block or alter the shot.

[VanWest82]

I like the Scola comparison in terms of craftiness around the basket but it doesn't hold up defensively. Sengun averaged 2.1 blocks and 1.7 steals per 36 this year. Scola never had block numbers like that anywhere in his career. Sengun's timing and anticipation defensively is on another level.

[Mirotic12]

Scola and Sengun are just about the same size,

Sengun

Height: 6-10 barefoot
Wingspan: 7-0
Weight: 243

Scola

Height: 6-9 1/2 barefoot
Wingspan: 7-0
Weight: 245

and they also have the same position (PF/C), but I really don't see all that much in similarities beyond that.

Sengun is better on defense, and he's much more athletic.

While Scola is light years a better natural scorer.

[Charm]

Scola and Sengun are just about the same size,

Sengun

Height: 6-10 barefoot
Wingspan: 7-0
Weight: 243

Scola

Height: 6-9 1/2 barefoot
Wingspan: 7-0
Weight: 245

and they also have the same position (PF/C), but I really don't see all that much in similarities beyond that.

Sengun is better on defense, and he's much more athletic.

While Scola is light years a better natural scorer.

Of course Scola at 22 was a better scorer than Sengun is at 18. But at the same age? nowhere close.

Scola's more similar to Garza as a prospect than to Sengun.

[Mirotic12]

Scola is much more of a natural born gifted scorer than Sengun is. That is not even remotely debatable.

[Charm]

Scola is much more of a natural born gifted scorer than Sengun is. That is not even remotely debatable.

I mean, when I think natural born gifted scorer, I probably think Gallinari (among Euro guys). Scola's a fantastically skilled post scorer in particular, but he's not an unusually gifted finisher or shooter or roll man. It took him til this season at age 40 to develop a reliable 3-point shot...Sengun will hope to figure it out a little bit sooner than that

[Mirotic12]

Scola is pretty much the best scoring power forward to ever play in any FIBA competition. He was a guy that during his entire career, if his team needed him to score 30-40 points, he could just do it. I am sorry, but Sengun is most definitely not that kind of scorer.

Scola was, in many cases, the first offensive option of Argentina's NT, while Manu was the second option. For example, in the 2004 Olympics gold medal game, their offense was absolutely being run through Scola. And that happened dozens of times.

[Charm]

Scola is pretty much the best scoring power forward to ever play in any FIBA competition. He was a guy that during his entire career, if his team needed him to score 30-40 points, he could just do it. I am sorry, but Sengun is most definitely not that kind of scorer.

Scola was, in many cases, the first offensive option of Argentina's NT, while Manu was the second option. For example, in the 2004 Olympics gold medal game, their offense was absolutely being run through Scola. And that happened dozens of times.

Mmm...remind me who was the first option against USA though?

Anyway, I don't think "can you run the offense through him in the post?" is a meaningful barometer for how good a scorer a frontcourt player is in 2021. Sengun's an exciting offensive big because he can go coast-to-coast and draw and and-1 in transition, or he can hit a step-back 3 at the end of the shot clock, or he can come out of nowhere for a putback dunk. That's what gives him an offensive ceiling that's much higher than Scola's offensive ceiling was.

[Mirotic12]

Mmm...remind me who was the first option against USA though?

Anyway, I don't think "can you run the offense through him in the post?" is a meaningful barometer for how good a scorer a frontcourt player is in 2021. Sengun's an exciting offensive big because he can go coast-to-coast and draw and and-1 in transition, or he can hit a step-back 3 at the end of the shot clock, or he can come out of nowhere for a putback dunk. That's what gives him an offensive ceiling that's much higher than Scola's offensive ceiling was.

Well, in the 2002 game, in which Argentina first beat USA, If I remember correctly, their first option was pick and roll or pick and pop with Montechia and their big men.

I am talking about pure scoring ability. There are few natural pure scorers, that can just get a basket at any time, in any situation, against any defense, whenever it is needed. That was Scola during his whole career. In high level basketball, there are usually like around 10 or so of those players in the world, at a any given time.

I really like Sengun's offensive skills, but in no games I have watched him play did he ever show that he is a pure natural born instinctual scorer and bucket maker, like Scola was.

Sengun probably has the potential to be a better all around player than Scola. But pure scoring-wise, it's not even near the same level. The Scola comparison just doesn't make any sense. Sengun is an all around offensive big and player in general. Scola was a machine gun level scorer, that had the offense go directly through him in one to ones, a very good rebounder, a good passer for a big, and he didn't do much on defense. Offensively, in an overall sense, he didn't do much other than just try to take his man.

They just are not that similar of players at all, other than their size, position, and that they played in Europe.

[Ruzious]

I think they're even less similar than you do - which makes me wonder why Scola is being mentioned so frequently in this thread.

[NO-KG-AI]

Honestly, this dude would be a massive disappointment if he doesn’t outplay Luis Scola in the NBA.

I know there is a big push from certain members to make the guys that wanna stay in Europe better than the guys that want to play in the NBA, but this kid is just a way better natural talent than Scola, and I’d be shocked if it takes him to 28 years old or whatever to be a high level NBA contributor.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[DaddyCool19]

Are there stats about his 1998/99 season in the second spanish division? He was loaned to Gijon back then and after getting promoted he then put up 14,6/5,6/0,8 and 1 BPG in 29,6 MPG in the ACB League (in Gijon), while his team barely avoided relegation. With 20 he then was a regular member of an Euroleague team.

[karkinos]

scola is a bucket. i think he's certainly someone sengun could aspire to be offensively as many others have said. kid is young though so he has plenty of time.

[Charm]

scola is a bucket. i think he's certainly someone sengun could aspire to be offensively as many others have said. kid is young though so he has plenty of time.

I don't really understand this take at all with Sengun. He thrived this year once he shed weight and started playing a more perimeter-oriented game in an up-tempo offense. The logical conclusion is that his continued improvement probably depends on further development in that direction. What's to gain by using him as a post scorer in a slower, more old-fashioned offense?

[Hal14]

This mock has Sengun going 21st:

https://watchstadium.com/jeff-goodmans-2021-nba-mock-draft-1-0-rockets-reload-06-02-2021/

What do you guys think? IDK, it seems like people on here see Sengun more highly. I'm seeing many on here with Sengun on the top 10, some say he's a top 5-6 player in the draft. Someone even said on here he's the best player in the draft.

Is it really possibly he falls all the way to 21?

[Charm]

This mock has Sengun going 21st:

https://watchstadium.com/jeff-goodmans-2021-nba-mock-draft-1-0-rockets-reload-06-02-2021/

What do you guys think? IDK, it seems like people on here see Sengun more highly. I'm seeing many on here with Sengun on the top 10, some say he's a top 5-6 player in the draft. Someone even said on here he's the best player in the draft.

Is it really possibly he falls all the way to 21?

Not possible...any front office that's heavy into analytics, or even medium into analytics, will move heaven and earth to get a mid first rounder if he falls that far.