Ben Simmons

[crazy_me_87]

Kiddo rolled his ankle on the first day of practice.

reportely nothing serious though.. was held out of practice just to be safe. will not cost him any further time.
ankle rolls happen all the time..as long as nothing is seriously sprained or torn its all good

[splendidham]

Tweeted '110%' just yesterday so I assume it's no biggie


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[splendidham]

So, Ben's most recent measurements at the LSU combine have come out. WS is up
to 7'0.25. Standing reach is up to 9'0.5. Standing Vertical is 37inches. Max Vert is 41.5inches. Also 2.9sec 3/4 court sprint.
Blakeneys vertical is quite eye popping, especially his standing


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[Dame Lizard]

So, Ben's most recent measurements at the LSU combine have come out. WS is up
to 7'0.25. Standing reach is up to 9'0.5. Standing Vertical is 37inches. Max Vert is 41.5inches. Also 2.9sec 3/4 court sprint.
Blakeneys vertical is quite eye popping, especially his standing


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His size measurements are all bigger than expected, that looks fantastic considering what was previously reported. (His previous standing reach was likely a depressed standing reach which inflated his vert though).

I find his athletic results hard to believe entirely though (his 3/4 sprint time is apparently the fastest ever in Draft Express' database...... seems like some LSU inaccuracies there).

Either way though it certainly seems he fits he's a confirmed freak athlete.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2015-LSU-Combine-Measurements-and-Analysis-5299/

[splendidham]

Yeah, considering his sprint was second fastest on the squad, I'd be inclined to agree. While probably not accurate there, it's clear he's still quite quick. Strong with 14 bench reps. Increased weight, and a very solid leaper. His reach and WS should hose down a few of the doubts people have against him defending 4s. For comparison sake, his WS is just a bit shorter than skal's while having as good a standing reach


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[crazy_me_87]

He gained almost an inch in wingspan wich is huge because that was his only drawback in terms of his physical tools.
7'025 is till not great but defeniatly above average for a guy his size.

The Max Vert is even higher than the last one that was measured. And even if we look at the 3/4 court time with a grain of salt(i always said he was ultra fast but i cant believe THAT fast) that combined with his 41'5 Vert makes him a truly elite athlete.

This Kid looks better and better everytime we hear or see or read about him.

If he now can show in the College Season that his jumper is improved to a point where its clear that he could become a decent shooter over time... damn... i mean... DAMN

[MyUniBroDavis]

who has a higher ceiling, Simmons or AD
dont know much about him, but didnt he outplay Harden and AD in a camp, granted it was camp and pros usually fool around, but still.

[Marcus]

who has a higher ceiling, Simmons or AD
dont know much about him, but didnt he outplay Harden and AD in a camp, granted it was camp and pros usually fool around, but still.

I don't think Ben has a higher ceiling than AD does and Ben didn't "outplay" Harden at any camp. Ben did look very impressive against pros and was said to "hold his own well defensively" against Beard and Brow but there's nothing to backup him outplaying these guys. Like you said pros usually don't turn it on too much against these kids unless they're challenged.

Stanley Johnson picked Bron's pocket and tried getting into his shirt a few trips down the floor until Bron turned it up and gave him the business when he saw no backdown in the kid.

There's levels to this and the pros especially ELITE ones aren't usually giving max effort in a setting like that. More like see what you have and how you handle a taste of that level. Reports are that Ben did well and looked like he belonged.

As far as Ben's game. His vision and feel are the best parts of his game. Good size, point forward, lefty, athletic, monster in transition, ambidextrous around the cup, moves well without the ball, good first step, usually smarter than everybody else on the floor, and can make pretty much every pass. Needs to fix his jumper and gain some confidence in it if he's gonna play the 3 in the league, needs to prove he can handle bangers on the block if he's gonna play the 4 in the league, needs to get down in a stance on defense and just be more consistent on that end, i think the TOs will come down, the killer instinct needs to come up a little, and the spotlight doesn't faze him at all because he's had it on him for so long, none of what's to come at LSU or in the NBA seems like it will be to big for him.

Right now reports are he's locked in as the number one pick by most pro scouts but obviously that's subject to change between now and June. If he doesn't end up number one he shouldn't be that far behind unless he stays in school (doubtful) or looks like ABSOLUTE garbage at the NCAA level (even more doubtful) we'll see what happens though.

[crazy_me_87]

who has a higher ceiling, Simmons or AD
dont know much about him, but didnt he outplay Harden and AD in a camp, granted it was camp and pros usually fool around, but still.

IF this measurements are true he has a real chance to be the next great Wing Megastar. The only 2 things people think can hold him back are his Wingspan for defense and his jumper.

His Wingspan if true has grown to solid length and would no longer be a weakness(not yet a strenght but still) only his jumper is still suspect now. He has NBA 3pt Range and his jumper is technically fine. He is just horribly inconsistent and not a great FT Shooter 30% from three and 68% FT line throughout his HS Career.

I think we have to be carefull and not look at Anthony Davis now in hindsight but compare them right before their college season.
And if we look at them out of HS Simmons is in the same Ceiling bubble as Davis. AD had more 2 way Potential but Simmons Comparisons to Lebron and Magic show his POTENTIAL(please anybody remember the word)on offense is transcendent.

Most Scouts project his ceiling somewhere between Lebron,Magic,T-Mac,Grant Hill

Oh and btw Simmons reportetly has a Kobe like work ethic and aproach to the Game. He is not an ass to Teammates but concerning his will to win and his drive to be great has been compared to Kobe.

[MyUniBroDavis]

who has a higher ceiling, Simmons or AD
dont know much about him, but didnt he outplay Harden and AD in a camp, granted it was camp and pros usually fool around, but still.

I don't think Ben has a higher ceiling than AD does and Ben didn't "outplay" Harden at any camp. Ben did look very impressive against pros and was said to "hold his own well defensively" against Beard and Brow but there's nothing to backup him outplaying these guys. Like you said pros usually don't turn it on too much against these kids unless they're challenged.

Stanley Johnson picked Bron's pocket and tried getting into his shirt a few trips down the floor until Bron turned it up and gave him the business when he saw no backdown in the kid.

There's levels to this and the pros especially ELITE ones aren't usually giving max effort in a setting like that. More like see what you have and how you handle a taste of that level. Reports are that Ben did well and looked like he belonged.

As far as Ben's game. His vision and feel are the best parts of his game. Good size, point forward, lefty, athletic, monster in transition, ambidextrous around the cup, moves well without the ball, good first step, usually smarter than everybody else on the floor, and can make pretty much every pass. Needs to fix his jumper and gain some confidence in it if he's gonna play the 3 in the league, needs to prove he can handle bangers on the block if he's gonna play the 4 in the league, needs to get down in a stance on defense and just be more consistent on that end, i think the TOs will come down, the killer instinct needs to come up a little, and the spotlight doesn't faze him at all because he's had it on him for so long, none of what's to come at LSU or in the NBA seems like it will be to big for him.

Right now reports are he's locked in as the number one pick by most pro scouts but obviously that's subject to change between now and June. If he doesn't end up number one he shouldn't be that far behind unless he stays in school (doubtful) or looks like ABSOLUTE garbage at the NCAA level (even more doubtful) we'll see what happens though.

I love Davis, but looking at this kid, he seems to have that level, if you know what I mean.
Literally, I made the most overpowered character in 2k, the biggest mismatch ever, thinking that it would be unbelievably unrealistic and bs.

And then I found out that Ben Simmons exists lol.

I can't go into depth now, but he seems to have Davis's athleticism. He probably has around the same max vert (Davis does not have a 9ft standing reach, the "posture" of a player in that position adds 3 inches easily, and he was measured at 9ft 2 a year before despite being shorter and not as long, and now he is around 7ft with a 7ft 8 wingspan, looked taller than KAT, or at least the same height, and he was leaning a bit)

But considering he plays at the 3/4, he could be a durant-like mismatch at the 3, especially with his work ethic. (Durant is 6ft 11 now, I hear. Can't remember the link).

That is something though. Do you think he will be better than Durant in 2013? (Not gonna say 14 yet)

[MyUniBroDavis]

who has a higher ceiling, Simmons or AD
dont know much about him, but didnt he outplay Harden and AD in a camp, granted it was camp and pros usually fool around, but still.

IF this measurements are true he has a real chance to be the next great Wing Megastar. The only 2 things people think can hold him back are his Wingspan for defense and his jumper.

His Wingspan if true has grown to solid length and would no longer be a weakness(not yet a strenght but still) only his jumper is still suspect now. He has NBA 3pt Range and his jumper is technically fine. He is just horribly inconsistent and not a great FT Shooter 30% from three and 68% FT line throughout his HS Career.

I think we have to be carefull and not look at Anthony Davis now in hindsight but compare them right before their college season.
And if we look at them out of HS Simmons is in the same Ceiling bubble as Davis. AD had more 2 way Potential but Simmons Comparisons to Lebron and Magic show his POTENTIAL(please anybody remember the word)on offense is transcendent.

Most Scouts project his ceiling somewhere between Lebron,Magic,T-Mac,Grant Hill

Oh and btw Simmons reportetly has a Kobe like work ethic and aproach to the Game. He is not an ass to Teammates but concerning his will to win and his drive to be great has been compared to Kobe.

I don't know much about Davis in high school, but isn't he like, the opposite of what he was in high school on offense? I mean, I doubt people would have though of him as a 3 point shooter lol

I mean, that's a really, really big space between Lebrun and hill lol.

if he has that kind of work ethic, then I think he and Davis will "battle" for the mvp in the future.

I wonder which of them has. A higher work ethic lol?

[crazy_me_87]

who has a higher ceiling, Simmons or AD
dont know much about him, but didnt he outplay Harden and AD in a camp, granted it was camp and pros usually fool around, but still.

IF this measurements are true he has a real chance to be the next great Wing Megastar. The only 2 things people think can hold him back are his Wingspan for defense and his jumper.

His Wingspan if true has grown to solid length and would no longer be a weakness(not yet a strenght but still) only his jumper is still suspect now. He has NBA 3pt Range and his jumper is technically fine. He is just horribly inconsistent and not a great FT Shooter 30% from three and 68% FT line throughout his HS Career.

I think we have to be carefull and not look at Anthony Davis now in hindsight but compare them right before their college season.
And if we look at them out of HS Simmons is in the same Ceiling bubble as Davis. AD had more 2 way Potential but Simmons Comparisons to Lebron and Magic show his POTENTIAL(please anybody remember the word)on offense is transcendent.

Most Scouts project his ceiling somewhere between Lebron,Magic,T-Mac,Grant Hill

Oh and btw Simmons reportetly has a Kobe like work ethic and aproach to the Game. He is not an ass to Teammates but concerning his will to win and his drive to be great has been compared to Kobe.

I don't know much about Davis in high school, but isn't he like, the opposite of what he was in high school on offense? I mean, I doubt people would have though of him as a 3 point shooter lol

I mean, that's a really, really big space between Lebrun and hill lol.

if he has that kind of work ethic, then I think he and Davis will "battle" for the mvp in the future.

I wonder which of them has. A higher work ethic lol?

Yes i guess nobody saw Davis Offense developing like it has.

Hill in his best seasons did 26/7/5 or 23/9/7 so the gap to absolute prime pre injury Hill isnt that Big.
Lebron is obvoiusly a better defender and Scorer than Hill but in terms of style Hill just fits in that group of hyper talented Athletic Point Forwards or "PGs in PF Bodies"

Well i guess the work ethic part we can only wait and see. If it holds true He could easily become the next Lebron in the same way Kobe became the next MJ. Not quite as good but the closest thing and still a Top 10-15 player ceiling.

[MyUniBroDavis]

IF this measurements are true he has a real chance to be the next great Wing Megastar. The only 2 things people think can hold him back are his Wingspan for defense and his jumper.

His Wingspan if true has grown to solid length and would no longer be a weakness(not yet a strenght but still) only his jumper is still suspect now. He has NBA 3pt Range and his jumper is technically fine. He is just horribly inconsistent and not a great FT Shooter 30% from three and 68% FT line throughout his HS Career.

I think we have to be carefull and not look at Anthony Davis now in hindsight but compare them right before their college season.
And if we look at them out of HS Simmons is in the same Ceiling bubble as Davis. AD had more 2 way Potential but Simmons Comparisons to Lebron and Magic show his POTENTIAL(please anybody remember the word)on offense is transcendent.

Most Scouts project his ceiling somewhere between Lebron,Magic,T-Mac,Grant Hill

Oh and btw Simmons reportetly has a Kobe like work ethic and aproach to the Game. He is not an ass to Teammates but concerning his will to win and his drive to be great has been compared to Kobe.

I don't know much about Davis in high school, but isn't he like, the opposite of what he was in high school on offense? I mean, I doubt people would have though of him as a 3 point shooter lol

I mean, that's a really, really big space between Lebrun and hill lol.

if he has that kind of work ethic, then I think he and Davis will "battle" for the mvp in the future.

I wonder which of them has. A higher work ethic lol?

Yes i guess nobody saw Davis Offense developing like it has.

Hill in his best seasons did 26/7/5 or 23/9/7 so the gap to absolute prime pre injury Hill isnt that Big.
Lebron is obvoiusly a better defender and Scorer than Hill but in terms of style Hill just fits in that group of hyper talented Athletic Point Forwards or "PGs in PF Bodies"

Well i guess the work ethic part we can only wait and see. If it holds true He could easily become the next Lebron in the same way Kobe became the next MJ. Not quite as good but the closest thing and still a Top 10-15 player ceiling.

I mean, I realize that, but it's still a big gap from absolute peak lebron, you know what I mean?

[No-Man]

Simmons is not a wing player.

[crazy_me_87]

I don't know much about Davis in high school, but isn't he like, the opposite of what he was in high school on offense? I mean, I doubt people would have though of him as a 3 point shooter lol

I mean, that's a really, really big space between Lebrun and hill lol.

if he has that kind of work ethic, then I think he and Davis will "battle" for the mvp in the future.

I wonder which of them has. A higher work ethic lol?

Yes i guess nobody saw Davis Offense developing like it has.

Hill in his best seasons did 26/7/5 or 23/9/7 so the gap to absolute prime pre injury Hill isnt that Big.
Lebron is obvoiusly a better defender and Scorer than Hill but in terms of style Hill just fits in that group of hyper talented Athletic Point Forwards or "PGs in PF Bodies"

Well i guess the work ethic part we can only wait and see. If it holds true He could easily become the next Lebron in the same way Kobe became the next MJ. Not quite as good but the closest thing and still a Top 10-15 player ceiling.

I mean, I realize that, but it's still a big gap from absolute peak lebron, you know what I mean?

sure i do, i think Hill as kinda "low end" ceiling for Simmons as a 21/7/6 guy makes sense

[Marcus]

who has a higher ceiling, Simmons or AD
dont know much about him, but didnt he outplay Harden and AD in a camp, granted it was camp and pros usually fool around, but still.

I don't think Ben has a higher ceiling than AD does and Ben didn't "outplay" Harden at any camp. Ben did look very impressive against pros and was said to "hold his own well defensively" against Beard and Brow but there's nothing to backup him outplaying these guys. Like you said pros usually don't turn it on too much against these kids unless they're challenged.

Stanley Johnson picked Bron's pocket and tried getting into his shirt a few trips down the floor until Bron turned it up and gave him the business when he saw no backdown in the kid.

There's levels to this and the pros especially ELITE ones aren't usually giving max effort in a setting like that. More like see what you have and how you handle a taste of that level. Reports are that Ben did well and looked like he belonged.

As far as Ben's game. His vision and feel are the best parts of his game. Good size, point forward, lefty, athletic, monster in transition, ambidextrous around the cup, moves well without the ball, good first step, usually smarter than everybody else on the floor, and can make pretty much every pass. Needs to fix his jumper and gain some confidence in it if he's gonna play the 3 in the league, needs to prove he can handle bangers on the block if he's gonna play the 4 in the league, needs to get down in a stance on defense and just be more consistent on that end, i think the TOs will come down, the killer instinct needs to come up a little, and the spotlight doesn't faze him at all because he's had it on him for so long, none of what's to come at LSU or in the NBA seems like it will be to big for him.

Right now reports are he's locked in as the number one pick by most pro scouts but obviously that's subject to change between now and June. If he doesn't end up number one he shouldn't be that far behind unless he stays in school (doubtful) or looks like ABSOLUTE garbage at the NCAA level (even more doubtful) we'll see what happens though.

I love Davis, but looking at this kid, he seems to have that level, if you know what I mean.
Literally, I made the most overpowered character in 2k, the biggest mismatch ever, thinking that it would be unbelievably unrealistic and bs.

And then I found out that Ben Simmons exists lol.

I can't go into depth now, but he seems to have Davis's athleticism. He probably has around the same max vert (Davis does not have a 9ft standing reach, the "posture" of a player in that position adds 3 inches easily, and he was measured at 9ft 2 a year before despite being shorter and not as long, and now he is around 7ft with a 7ft 8 wingspan, looked taller than KAT, or at least the same height, and he was leaning a bit)

But considering he plays at the 3/4, he could be a durant-like mismatch at the 3, especially with his work ethic. (Durant is 6ft 11 now, I hear. Can't remember the link).

That is something though. Do you think he will be better than Durant in 2013? (Not gonna say 14 yet)

I really feel like AD right now is only working with a small portion of what his arsenal can/will be and you're seein what he's doing with that. There's so much more to his offensive game than what we're seeing. He had signs of it in HS after the growth spurt but he wasn't on any radars until the spurt and by then it was too late for the hype train. We're just now getting ISO Brow, midrange J Brow, first step, and step back faceup Brow. We still haven't seen post fade Brow, shimmy Brow, or drop step Brow yet. Tranisition push Brow is just growing legs.The range is extending and facilitation freedom is enroute. Plenty of facets still to come for a kid that's 22 and has the reigning PER in the league. Not sure Ben has that kind of ceiling.

I think we are seeing and have seen pretty much everything Ben brings to the table with the exception of a consistent jumper. This isn't to say kiddo won't get better or grow as a player game wise. Not to say he won't add-on either, just saying we pretty much know everything about Ben's game that there is to know, finding new things is what I personally attribute to potential. Ben may further develop things and turn his good into great but no new wrinkles I don't think.

Better than Durant? dunno. I think folks forget how good a healthy Durant is because folks' memory is so short nowadays. We're also talking about 2 completely different type of players. Ben is more of a facilitator and Durant is a scorer first and foremost. Ben has a ways to go to reach what Durant does with the ball in his hands, and that killer instinct is usually embedded Ben still has to show that. A lot of what he'll be able to do bucket wise will depend on his jumper I think. Right now I could see Ben getting buckets off cuts, in transition, and through drives on mismatches, not sure that's MVP level alone. Gonna need to keep folks honest IF he's gonna be "the guy" for his NBA team.

[crazy_me_87]

Simmons is not a wing player.

Why? because he is 6'10? because he propably will play alot of PF at LSU?

the measurements show even if the 3/4 court sprint are still taken with quite a bit of salt that he is incredibly fast
Yes his jumper needs work but so what? Alot of great wing prospects had this problem and did overcome it.
so why do you think he is not a wing player?

[No-Man]

He is probably playing C at LSU a ton too, but that is not the point, Simmons is a guy that will have much more space for his game and more ability to be a determinant player as a 4, with more spacing from the perimeter, more speed, and slower guys defending him.
The way he moves and plays is the one of a face-up PF, it is just pure on-court geometry, the game and the offense will be much more fluid with him at the PF.

The measurements for me prove nothing, even if I did buy into them, I dont, game speed and athleticism is what counts and Simmons is not a guy that is flashy or explosive, his game is not predicated on that, he is a solid athlete, but he will be much more comfortable, especially with his lack of shooting ability as a PF.

[MyUniBroDavis]

I don't think Ben has a higher ceiling than AD does and Ben didn't "outplay" Harden at any camp. Ben did look very impressive against pros and was said to "hold his own well defensively" against Beard and Brow but there's nothing to backup him outplaying these guys. Like you said pros usually don't turn it on too much against these kids unless they're challenged.

Stanley Johnson picked Bron's pocket and tried getting into his shirt a few trips down the floor until Bron turned it up and gave him the business when he saw no backdown in the kid.

There's levels to this and the pros especially ELITE ones aren't usually giving max effort in a setting like that. More like see what you have and how you handle a taste of that level. Reports are that Ben did well and looked like he belonged.

As far as Ben's game. His vision and feel are the best parts of his game. Good size, point forward, lefty, athletic, monster in transition, ambidextrous around the cup, moves well without the ball, good first step, usually smarter than everybody else on the floor, and can make pretty much every pass. Needs to fix his jumper and gain some confidence in it if he's gonna play the 3 in the league, needs to prove he can handle bangers on the block if he's gonna play the 4 in the league, needs to get down in a stance on defense and just be more consistent on that end, i think the TOs will come down, the killer instinct needs to come up a little, and the spotlight doesn't faze him at all because he's had it on him for so long, none of what's to come at LSU or in the NBA seems like it will be to big for him.

Right now reports are he's locked in as the number one pick by most pro scouts but obviously that's subject to change between now and June. If he doesn't end up number one he shouldn't be that far behind unless he stays in school (doubtful) or looks like ABSOLUTE garbage at the NCAA level (even more doubtful) we'll see what happens though.

I love Davis, but looking at this kid, he seems to have that level, if you know what I mean.
Literally, I made the most overpowered character in 2k, the biggest mismatch ever, thinking that it would be unbelievably unrealistic and bs.

And then I found out that Ben Simmons exists lol.

I can't go into depth now, but he seems to have Davis's athleticism. He probably has around the same max vert (Davis does not have a 9ft standing reach, the "posture" of a player in that position adds 3 inches easily, and he was measured at 9ft 2 a year before despite being shorter and not as long, and now he is around 7ft with a 7ft 8 wingspan, looked taller than KAT, or at least the same height, and he was leaning a bit)

But considering he plays at the 3/4, he could be a durant-like mismatch at the 3, especially with his work ethic. (Durant is 6ft 11 now, I hear. Can't remember the link).

That is something though. Do you think he will be better than Durant in 2013? (Not gonna say 14 yet)

I really feel like AD right now is only working with a small portion of what his arsenal can/will be and you're seein what he's doing with that. There's so much more to his offensive game than what we're seeing. He had signs of it in HS after the growth spurt but he wasn't on any radars until the spurt and by then it was too late for the hype train. We're just now getting ISO Brow, midrange J Brow, first step, and step back faceup Brow. We still haven't seen post fade Brow, shimmy Brow, or drop step Brow yet. Tranisition push Brow is just growing legs.The range is extending and facilitation freedom is enroute. Plenty of facets still to come for a kid that's 22 and has the reigning PER in the league. Not sure Ben has that kind of ceiling.

I think we are seeing and have seen pretty much everything Ben brings to the table with the exception of a consistent jumper. This isn't to say kiddo won't get better or grow as a player game wise. Not to say he won't add-on either, just saying we pretty much know everything about Ben's game that there is to know, finding new things is what I personally attribute to potential. Ben may further develop things and turn his good into great but no new wrinkles I don't think.

Better than Durant? dunno. I think folks forget how good a healthy Durant is because folks' memory is so short nowadays. We're also talking about 2 completely different type of players. Ben is more of a facilitator and Durant is a scorer first and foremost. Ben has a ways to go to reach what Durant does with the ball in his hands, and that killer instinct is usually embedded Ben still has to show that. A lot of what he'll be able to do bucket wise will depend on his jumper I think. Right now I could see Ben getting buckets off cuts, in transition, and through drives on mismatches, not sure that's MVP level alone. Gonna need to keep folks honest IF he's gonna be "the guy" for his NBA team.

He actually felt like he was back in high school when training in his interview lol. I don't think we will see that kind of stuff from his post game yet, though he did a beautiful spin ,over that led to an open missed layup on a sprained ankle, and did a harden like post step back without the post.

I put healthy Durant comfortably above peak Kobe. But I'm not talking about full peak, though he was good in his own right.

I just feel like his work rate will get him there. His athleticism is off the charts, because even if the measurements are to be taken with a grain of salt, he would be faster than the average of relative to his team, so his speed is Davis like (Davis raced reke to a draw) while his vertical surpasses that. He looks like he can still gain weight, and starts out "ahead of the curve" compared to Davis in strength.

Honest, Davis changed his mechaniccs to his jumper. Ben might have to do the same.

[Undefeated]

With the way the league is trending towards playmaking 4s I think that's going to be the position Ben plays since he'll have an obvious advantage over most opponents. Put him at the pinch post and just run elbow pick-n-rolls ("Get" action) like what the Rockets did with J-Smoove and Dwight doing surgery on Mavs defense since most 4s have no clue how to defend on-the-ball except when they're calling out the screen coverage. Also, most defenses are going to experiment with more switching against ball-screen actions, so it would be beneficial for him to develop a post game. He doesn't need a whole bunch of tools in his shed, but just knowing how to quickly attack a mismatch before the helpside defense gets loaded in position. Draymond is one of the best at it. Even if you invert the action and use Ben as the pick-n-roll ball-handler and if the guard has a wet jumper no defense is going to hedge on the screen for fear of leaving the shooter open which opens up driving lanes for him. Would love to see LSU run their offense through the elbow (Corner actions, Horns, etc) allowing Ben to facilitate the offense from there. Loved it when Coach K had Bari running elbow pick-n-rolls with Hood. Think he was the first to experiment it at the college level.