Okafor or Towns? Which center is the better pick?

[BoutPractice]

It seems like the ideal situation for Okafor, if he's a C, would be to be paired with one of those new age floor spacing + shot blocking PFs ala Davis or Ibaka... But there aren't that many of those, and they don't play for the teams that might get him. Whether it's the Knicks, Lakers or Wolves, I'm not sure how he solves the big issues that make them losing teams right now.

Towns in contrast would quickly help address those. The only one where it doesn't really make sense is Philadelphia, which already has Embiid and Noel and would be better off with a D'Angelo Russell type who knows how to shoot, especially if they plan to start both of their lottery bigs. But the Knicks, Lakers, Wolves, and Magic could definitely use someone like Towns.

[Marcus]

It seems like the ideal situation for Okafor, if he's a C, would be to be paired with one of those new age floor spacing + shot blocking PFs ala Davis or Ibaka... But there aren't that many of those, and they don't play for the teams that might get him. Whether it's the Knicks, Lakers or Wolves, I'm not sure how he solves the big issues that make them losing teams right now.

Towns in contrast would quickly help address those. The only one where it doesn't really make sense is Philadelphia, which already has Embiid and Noel and would be better off with a D'Angelo Russell type who knows how to shoot, especially if they plan to start both of their lottery bigs. But the Knicks, Lakers, Wolves, and Magic could definitely use someone like Towns.

im under the impression that Jah fits better in LA or with the Knicks due to mindset of those franchises and their fans. Karl has a higher upside and once/if he completely touches that ceiling he should be the better player. Out the gate though there might be more adjusting he'll need to do than Jah. Lakers and Knicks are stuck in a rebuilding phase however they are win now or be better now type franchises, immediate result franchises.

You have the main guys in place on those teams that want results now (Melo, Kobe) a system that fits Jah in NY and a need for a relief valve for those scorers which is something Jah can provide a lot sooner than Karl can.

Minny, Orlando, and we all know Philly aren't necessarily in "win now" mode. They have pieces in place that speak to building and nurturing. their best players are all young guys with bright futures and you can add another youngin to that have them grow as one. This is not to say that Towns doesn't fit the Knicks or Lakers as well. Just saying that his ready now level might not be where it needs to be for franchises that don't necessarily wanna wait 2 to 3 years for him to completely pan out.

Rim-protection would be @$$cheeks in Lakerville though with Jah and Jules manning the paint on defense and you're spot on with Jah needing to be paired with a shot blocking four until he figures it out on the defensive end.

[noobcake]

The notion that Towns has a higher ceiling is ridiculous.

Okafor has a higher ceiling and floor than Towns. This offensive game being more coachable is such bs. If such wild theories were true, Dwight would be the GOAT center. Okafor has extremely nimble feet, strong core and great coordination. He has some conditioning issues and has always relied on his 6'11"/7'6" wingspan 270 lbs frame to suffocate players in lower levels of competition.

There are only 2 problems to him being a #1 lock.

1) Can he shoot, or will he stink it up like Dwight for the rest of his career?

2) Can you still build and win with a 90's era back to the post center? He would need to have Shaq or Prime Yao type impact for a team to run their offense around him.

[BoutPractice]

But do you think he can eventually be a more than respectable defender?

I am absolutely convinced that you can still win with traditional back to the basket types. (Heck, this era's dynasty was built around just such a player...)However, it's much more likely if they're ALSO rim protectors, like the great centers of old. Two way bigs will never go out of style, they've always been the cheat code to winning championships. Do you think Okafor can ever be a two-way big?

Dwight may not be the GOAT center, but he led his team to the Finals... compare with DeMarcus Cousins or Al Jefferson, who have all the offensive talent in the world but whose teams never seem to get anywhere.

At the center position, it's better to have all defense and little to no offense than the opposite (from Bill Russell to Ben Wallace). And it's something that advanced stats seem to corroborate time and time again. Naturally you want both, but if you have to choose, you go with defense... this doesn't apply to all positions (in fact I tend to prefer all offense to all defense guards, if I have the choice, although this might be controversial) but it definitely does for centers. Besides, in the contemporary game, tall athletic players with very few skills can still be an offensive plus if they know how to roll hard to the basket and catch alley oops (see Tyson Chandler, DeAndre Jordan etc.).

Note that I'm only speaking of general considerations here. Personally, I don't buy the narrative that Towns has no offense, at all... just like I never bought the narrative that Davis would be a defense-only player.

[reignfire]

I'm interested to know what Okafor's standing reach will be. It will have huge impact on how much he can improve as a defender IMO.

Cousins has a smaller wingspan than Okafor and he is slightly shorter, but his standing reaching is a massive 9'5''. Drummond is slightly taller than Cousins and has a longer wingspan, but his standing reach is only 9'2''.

I believe a high standing reach plays a huge factor in rim protection.

[Marcus]

I'm interested to know what Okafor's standing reach will be. It will have huge impact on how much he can improve as a defender IMO.

Cousins has a smaller wingspan than Okafor and he is slightly shorter, but his standing reaching is a massive 9'5''. Drummond is slightly taller than Cousins and has a longer wingspan, but his standing reach is only 9'2''.

I believe a high standing reach plays a huge factor in rim protection.

Draftexpress has his standing reach at 9'2.5 at the hoop summit.

[noobcake]

But do you think he can eventually be a more than respectable defender?

Yes because Okafor is massive, nimble and has good lateral quickness. He may never become a shot blocking prospect like Gobert or Noel, but Chandler and Gasol have shown that you don't have to be an elite shot blocker to be DPOY.

James Harden was bad at defense last year. He had all the tools. Over one summer, Harden became a ____ defender. I'm not going to use good because the hate for Rockets is strong here. Tools help you become a defender. I'm not a huge fan of the idea that tools can make you an offensive player. Your offensive can improve greatly with great physical tools, but this increase is relative to your starting point. (And stop bringing up the name Paul George. He is the exception, not the norm. You can go to any draft page and list countless players with great tools and failed developments)

So people saying that Towns can become an dominant offensive player, or going back to last year that Wiggins can be Tmac/Jordan/Kobe due to tools is frankly ridiculous. Towns can become an good offensive center, but don't kid yourself if you think he will ever develop the post game that 18 year old Okafor has right now.

[AQuintus]

Yes because Okafor is massive, nimble and has good lateral quickness.

What? Lateral quickness is a huge issue for Okafor. It's the biggest reason why he's a bad pick-and-roll defender.

[DickGrayson]

Why are you even posting on this forum if you think Okafor is the only NBA prospect on the Duke roster :banghead:

I was talking about big men. I guess you have trouble reading. If I was naming all the NBA prospects, why didn't I name Devin Booker, Ulis and the Harrison Bros?

Poythress was another body that Towns went to work against in practice in Kentucky, he's been out of the season but thats another future NBA big man that towns got experience against.

[DickGrayson]

Comparing Towns and Okafor's rebounding levels is unbalanced. Towns is stronger than him.

are you saying stronger rebounder? or stronger physically?

Rebounder.

[theonlyclutch]

But do you think he can eventually be a more than respectable defender?

Yes because Okafor is massive, nimble and has good lateral quickness. He may never become a shot blocking prospect like Gobert or Noel, but Chandler and Gasol have shown that you don't have to be an elite shot blocker to be DPOY.

James Harden was bad at defense last year. He had all the tools. Over one summer, Harden became a ____ defender. I'm not going to use good because the hate for Rockets is strong here. Tools help you become a defender. I'm not a huge fan of the idea that tools can make you an offensive player. Your offensive can improve greatly with great physical tools, but this increase is relative to your starting point. (And stop bringing up the name Paul George. He is the exception, not the norm. You can go to any draft page and list countless players with great tools and failed developments)

So people saying that Towns can become an dominant offensive player, or going back to last year that Wiggins can be Tmac/Jordan/Kobe due to tools is frankly ridiculous. Towns can become an good offensive center, but don't kid yourself if you think he will ever develop the post game that 18 year old Okafor has right now.

The question with Okafor is, would that post game work as effectively in the NBA, it's a lot easier to bully your way to score through undersized NCAA bigs than NBA bigs with greater size and skill. Especially considering that Okafor hasn't really demonstrated much ability to operate outside the paint, even guys like Cousins and Jefferson can step out and hit the occasional jumper if called for, something Okafor hasn't shown he can do.

[DickGrayson]

But do you think he can eventually be a more than respectable defender?

Yes because Okafor is massive, nimble and has good lateral quickness. He may never become a shot blocking prospect like Gobert or Noel, but Chandler and Gasol have shown that you don't have to be an elite shot blocker to be DPOY.

So now Okafor has potential to be defensive player of the year?

You say Jahill has good lateral quickness, but that's a lie.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W2FRzzb8i8[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugCbmikA_hE[/youtube]


In these videos you will see.

Okafor lacks quickness in contain the ball
Okafor is never in an athletic position, he's so upright it's extremely easy to go to the paint when he's on the floor.
Okafor's defense reminds people of Stoudemire or Eddy Curry, some of the worst in NBA history.
Right now Okafor is one of the worst P&R defenders at his position and offers very little to none help defense when guards beat the Duke guards.

In fact, Okafor would come into the NBA as one of the worst shot blockers at his position.

[Marcus]

The question with Okafor is, would that post game work as effectively in the NBA, it's a lot easier to bully your way to score through undersized NCAA bigs than NBA bigs with greater size and skill. Especially considering that Okafor hasn't really demonstrated much ability to operate outside the paint, even guys like Cousins and Jefferson can step out and hit the occasional jumper if called for, something Okafor hasn't shown he can do.

would be accurate if he was only "bullying". Its the combination of skill and strength that makes him effective in the post. Also, he's still a 270+ pound 19 year old, not a lot of those in the league. He still has a size advantage over a good number of pro centers with time to better condition himself and get stronger. His footwork is his saving grace and what helps him maintain effectiveness against guys he can't "bully" despite not being terribly springy off the floor.

[Zeitgeister]

LOL block percentage.

[ColdBlooded]

Dear god, Noobcake is just taking a massive beating in here.

Just tap out, Noob.

[noobcake]

Dear god, Noobcake is just taking a massive beating in here.

Just tap out, Noob.

[bwgood77]

Okafor is the more obvious pick. It's kind of like Durant vs Oden. Proven production vs hope. Towns could turn into a super stud, but he could be a bust. Okafor won't be a bust. He may not be the best defensive center, but you won't be devastated later that you chose him over someone else. With Towns, you certainly could be, or he could be the best player in the draft.

[E-Balla]

Okafor is the more obvious pick. It's kind of like Durant vs Oden. Proven production vs hope. Towns could turn into a super stud, but he could be a bust. Okafor won't be a bust. He may not be the best defensive center, but you won't be devastated later that you chose him over someone else. With Towns, you certainly could be, or he could be the best player in the draft.

Oden averaged 16/10 and had a 33 PER with . Broken hand. He produced a ton.

[bwgood77]

Okafor is the more obvious pick. It's kind of like Durant vs Oden. Proven production vs hope. Towns could turn into a super stud, but he could be a bust. Okafor won't be a bust. He may not be the best defensive center, but you won't be devastated later that you chose him over someone else. With Towns, you certainly could be, or he could be the best player in the draft.

Oden averaged 16/10 and had a 33 PER with . Broken hand. He produced a ton.

Cool. Durant is good too.

[E-Balla]

Okafor is the more obvious pick. It's kind of like Durant vs Oden. Proven production vs hope. Towns could turn into a super stud, but he could be a bust. Okafor won't be a bust. He may not be the best defensive center, but you won't be devastated later that you chose him over someone else. With Towns, you certainly could be, or he could be the best player in the draft.

Oden averaged 16/10 and had a 33 PER with a Broken hand. He produced a ton.

Cool. Durant is good too.

You said proven production vs potential. Both Oden and Durant were proven production. I mean Greg killed Noah and Horford in his last career game with one hand.

Plus the reason he didn't pan out was freak injuries. If you were going to make the production vs potential argument pick someone like CP3 vs Marvin Williams.