Stephon Castle

[JMAC3]

I don't understand how Holland is sooo low on the major outlet draft boards like Espn, Ringer, etc...

Stats wise, film wise there is no way he shouldn't be a top 5 lock in this draft. Which makes me worry it could be a character thing, but idk

[HadAnEffectHere]

One thing I don't get yet is the Ringer having Castle #1 and Holland #13. Maybe I'm crazy but they don't seem too different in terms of prospects. Holland is bigger and maybe the better athlete.

I have Castle 8th and Holland 9th so I don't see much separation but most people that do would say

-Steph Castle has an above average BBIQ, Holland has a below average BBIQ (takes horrible shots in the paint instead of kicking it out, ball watches all the time and gives up constant backcuts for easy layups)

-Castle has very good one on one defensive technique whereas Holland's defensive technique is bad (he doesn't get low enough and was constantly blown by)

I would agree with those two points, but Holland is just a much better athlete than Castle so it makes them pretty close. Both guys probably will bust and be out of the league pretty quickly because they'll likely be super bad shooters so idk, whatever.

People do also value Castle being the 5th best player on a dominant title team and don't value Holland being the third best player (behind Jenkins and Tyler Smith) on a historically bad (so bad the team no longer exists) team.

[King Ken]

Castle is a unique player. I literally think he's the most talented prospect in this class along with Sarr but he's a lot closer to being good than Sarr is but his shot is an issue for me. I don't know what his ceiling is honestly.

[NYPiston]

Castle is a unique player. I literally think he's the most talented prospect in this class along with Sarr but he's a lot closer to being good than Sarr is but his shot is an issue for me. I don't know what his ceiling is honestly.

I agree. Castle might have the best overall game of any prospect in this draft outside of shooting, unfortunately shooting is such a big part of the game today so it takes him down a couple of notches.

[Hal14]

I don't understand how Holland is sooo low on the major outlet draft boards like Espn, Ringer, etc...

Stats wise, film wise there is no way he shouldn't be a top 5 lock in this draft. Which makes me worry it could be a character thing, but idk

Maybe your evaluation is just off?

What stats make him look good? His BPM is just okay..not great, especially for a guy who was on the best team in college basketball. He had the 6th highest BPM on the team, among rotation players. The other 4 starters (and Diarra) were all higher.

11 PPG is meh. The shooting numbers are not good. The rebounding % relative to his position are good..assist % is good (but not great).

Rim FG% is good (but not great)..FTr is good (but not great), steaks and blocks % are okay.

The stats don't scream top 5 pick..

Film looks good but on the film but on film he often looks scared to shoot the ball, quite a few bad misses from deep. And on film he looks pretty inconsistent (some games looks great, some games makes very little impact..

[Hal14]

Steph didnt want to be drafted by the Warriors

rest is history

Did he refuse to workout for them before the draft?

yes, went full zero dark thirty mode on the warriors, also Monte Ellis publicly stated he didnt want the warriors to draft Curry.

warriors said **** you to both and still did.

Got a link that supports this?

All I can find is something that says Monta Ellis said *after* Steph was drafted that he didn't want to play at the same time as Steph because they would be too small of a back court and would struggle defensively.

And even if what you say is true, that's one case that was like 20 yrs ago..which is outweighed by many examples where a player/agent was able to steer the player away from a certain team or steer them onto a certain team..

[clyde21]

Did he refuse to workout for them before the draft?

yes, went full zero dark thirty mode on the warriors, also Monte Ellis publicly stated he didnt want the warriors to draft Curry.

warriors said **** you to both and still did.

Got a link that supports this?

All I can find is something that says Monta Ellis said *after* Steph was drafted that he didn't want to play at the same time as Steph because they would be too small of a back court and would struggle defensively.

And even if what you say is true, that's one case that was like 20 yrs ago..which is outweighed by many examples where a player/agent was able to steer the player away from a certain team or steer them onto a certain team..

what do you need a link for? this is all over the internet. Steph didn't come workout for the Warriors and said he doesn't want the Warriors to draft and instead wanted to drop to the Knicks at 8...this is widely accepted Steph lore at this point.

[JMAC3]

I don't understand how Holland is sooo low on the major outlet draft boards like Espn, Ringer, etc...

Stats wise, film wise there is no way he shouldn't be a top 5 lock in this draft. Which makes me worry it could be a character thing, but idk

Maybe your evaluation is just off?

What stats make him look good? His BPM is just okay..not great, especially for a guy who was on the best team in college basketball. He had the 6th highest BPM on the team, among rotation players. The other 4 starters (and Diarra) were all higher.

11 PPG is meh. The shooting numbers are not good. The rebounding % relative to his position are good..assist % is good (but not great).

Rim FG% is good (but not great)..FTr is good (but not great), steaks and blocks % are okay.

The stats don't scream top 5 pick..

Film looks good but on the film but on film he often looks scared to shoot the ball, quite a few bad misses from deep. And on film he looks pretty inconsistent (some games looks great, some games makes very little impact..

I was talking about HOLLAND here...

[Hal14]

I don't understand how Holland is sooo low on the major outlet draft boards like Espn, Ringer, etc...

Stats wise, film wise there is no way he shouldn't be a top 5 lock in this draft. Which makes me worry it could be a character thing, but idk

Maybe your evaluation is just off?

What stats make him look good? His BPM is just okay..not great, especially for a guy who was on the best team in college basketball. He had the 6th highest BPM on the team, among rotation players. The other 4 starters (and Diarra) were all higher.

11 PPG is meh. The shooting numbers are not good. The rebounding % relative to his position are good..assist % is good (but not great).

Rim FG% is good (but not great)..FTr is good (but not great), steaks and blocks % are okay.

The stats don't scream top 5 pick..

Film looks good but on the film but on film he often looks scared to shoot the ball, quite a few bad misses from deep. And on film he looks pretty inconsistent (some games looks great, some games makes very little impact..

I was talking about HOLLAND here...

ah, my bad. I thought you were talking about Castle. I probably assumed that cause this is the castle thread..

[greg4012]

Castle is a unique player. I literally think he's the most talented prospect in this class along with Sarr but he's a lot closer to being good than Sarr is but his shot is an issue for me. I don't know what his ceiling is honestly.

I agree. Castle might have the best overall game of any prospect in this draft outside of shooting, unfortunately shooting is such a big part of the game today so it takes him down a couple of notches.

Starting to sound like Justise Winslow

[EMG518]

I don't understand how Holland is sooo low on the major outlet draft boards like Espn, Ringer, etc...

Stats wise, film wise there is no way he shouldn't be a top 5 lock in this draft. Which makes me worry it could be a character thing, but idk

Maybe your evaluation is just off?

What stats make him look good? His BPM is just okay..not great, especially for a guy who was on the best team in college basketball. He had the 6th highest BPM on the team, among rotation players. The other 4 starters (and Diarra) were all higher.

11 PPG is meh. The shooting numbers are not good. The rebounding % relative to his position are good..assist % is good (but not great).

Rim FG% is good (but not great)..FTr is good (but not great), steaks and blocks % are okay.

The stats don't scream top 5 pick..

Film looks good but on the film but on film he often looks scared to shoot the ball, quite a few bad misses from deep. And on film he looks pretty inconsistent (some games looks great, some games makes very little impact..

I was talking about HOLLAND here...

You aren't concerned with what role he would play on a team?. Granted I have only seen highlights but the offense looks questionable, alot of straight line drives and using his strength near the basket, and the shot looks really questionable.

[FarBeyondDriven]

I don't understand how Holland is sooo low on the major outlet draft boards like Espn, Ringer, etc...

Stats wise, film wise there is no way he shouldn't be a top 5 lock in this draft. Which makes me worry it could be a character thing, but idk

the people that get paid to pontificate about NBA draft prospects are really bad at evaluating prospects. You just have to chuckle and move on.

[One_and_Done]

I don't understand how Holland is sooo low on the major outlet draft boards like Espn, Ringer, etc...

Stats wise, film wise there is no way he shouldn't be a top 5 lock in this draft. Which makes me worry it could be a character thing, but idk

Because he is a pure dunker and cutter on offense. No shot, no dribble drive or PnR game. Maybe he can develop it, but that's tough to do.

[The Moose]

I don't understand how Holland is sooo low on the major outlet draft boards like Espn, Ringer, etc...

Stats wise, film wise there is no way he shouldn't be a top 5 lock in this draft. Which makes me worry it could be a character thing, but idk

Because he is a pure dunker and cutter on offense. No shot, no dribble drive or PnR game. Maybe he can develop it, but that's tough to do.

Yeah 19% of his points came off fastbreaks, in a league like the GLeague this is a statistical red flag. A guy like Kuminga, as raw as he was offensively scored only 12% of his points off fastbreaks.

Only other guys in the G League this season with 17 PPG+ and 15%+ points off fastbreaks

Greg Brown III
Quentin Jackson
Dereon Seabron
Kendall Brown
Josh Minott
Dominick Barlow

These are mostly just extremely athletic wings who can get out in transition in the mess that is G League basketball. The Kendall Brown and Josh Minott comps would be interesting, as young recent NCAA guys. I actually see some shades of both in Holland.

[God Squad]

Did he refuse to workout for them before the draft?

yes, went full zero dark thirty mode on the warriors, also Monte Ellis publicly stated he didnt want the warriors to draft Curry.

warriors said **** you to both and still did.

Got a link that supports this?

All I can find is something that says Monta Ellis said *after* Steph was drafted that he didn't want to play at the same time as Steph because they would be too small of a back court and would struggle defensively.

And even if what you say is true, that's one case that was like 20 yrs ago..which is outweighed by many examples where a player/agent was able to steer the player away from a certain team or steer them onto a certain team..

It was a long time ago, but IIRC Curry was pushing to be drafted by New York. Now I can't remember if he refused a GSW workout, but it makes sense since they had the 7th pick.

But before he was picked by Golden State, Steph said the Dubs were “not on his radar”. Instead of going West, he said he was looking at going to the Eastern Conference.

"When I got drafted," Curry said. "It's kind of funny thinking back – I wanted to go to New York and thought I was going to New York."

He continued, adding "I was at the draft, in the green room like 'Oh, we'll get to the eighth spot, New York will get me.' Then I got the call from (Warriors GM) Larry Riley, like 'alright we're going to pick you in the seventh spot.'"

[JMAC3]

I don't understand how Holland is sooo low on the major outlet draft boards like Espn, Ringer, etc...

Stats wise, film wise there is no way he shouldn't be a top 5 lock in this draft. Which makes me worry it could be a character thing, but idk

Because he is a pure dunker and cutter on offense. No shot, no dribble drive or PnR game. Maybe he can develop it, but that's tough to do.

Yeah 19% of his points came off fastbreaks, in a league like the GLeague this is a statistical red flag. A guy like Kuminga, as raw as he was offensively scored only 12% of his points off fastbreaks.

Only other guys in the G League this season with 17 PPG+ and 15%+ points off fastbreaks

Greg Brown III
Quentin Jackson
Dereon Seabron
Kendall Brown
Josh Minott
Dominick Barlow

These are mostly just extremely athletic wings who can get out in transition in the mess that is G League basketball. The Kendall Brown and Josh Minott comps would be interesting, as young recent NCAA guys. I actually see some shades of both in Holland.

If you watch the tape though most of it was off of fastbreaks he created from his own defense.
He is a top 2-3 athlete at worst in this class.
He also did showcase a large bag of scoring, given it wasn't super efficient all the time.
You can find him hitting pull up or stepback 3s.
He can finish through contact or around contact at the basket.
Some really high level passing at times for an 18 yr old wing.

I just personally have seen enough to know that he could become a superstar and that is enough in this class to easily be a top 5 pick IMO.

[King Ken]

Castle is a unique player. I literally think he's the most talented prospect in this class along with Sarr but he's a lot closer to being good than Sarr is but his shot is an issue for me. I don't know what his ceiling is honestly.

I agree. Castle might have the best overall game of any prospect in this draft outside of shooting, unfortunately shooting is such a big part of the game today so it takes him down a couple of notches.

Starting to sound like Justise Winslow

I don't know about that. I like Winslow talent but he has injury concerns. I don't have any issues with that for Castle.

[Skybox]

I could see him going 4th to SAS….if not, how far could he fall?

He’s the one guy I’d aggressively trade up for for ORL…what would it take, realistically?

[GSWFan1994]

Castle reminds me a bit of Jrue Holiday. Just a fundamentally sound player, very good defense for his age, and doesn't take anything off the table. I think the Spurs will end up getting him, or perhaps Sheppard.

As for Holland, I think he's been underrated, yes. If you take into account there aren't many wings mocked in the lottery, that even more puzzling.

[Dat2U]

I think there's a wild amount of projection to envision Stefon Castle raising his skill level, speeding up his processing and improving his decision making to the point where he sees the floor, plays with enough pace and can put enough pressure on the defense to live up to the high standards of being a starting PG.

Crazy to see Magic fans push for Castle one year after Anthony Black and three years after Jalen Suggs. Are the Magic wanting to corner the market on defensive minded guards that have to slide to the 2 in the NBA to make it?