Luka Doncic Part III

[daoneandonly]

You wouldnt be saying any of that if you have actually watched the kid play instead of just watching statistics. Ayton must be amazing shooter based on that

I've watched him play, and his lack of speed and athleticism is going to hinder him at the NBA level. I never once said Doncic is a bum and will suck, I said he'll be in the tier of hedo Turkaglu/Shaun Livingson post injury, both are solid players, but they are not franchise altering guys, certainly not guys you take with a top 5 pick

I am sorry daoneandonly if you truely have you wouldnt be saying this. Cause

a) he is not unathletic in fact there is a lot of evidence for his size that would suggest otherwise
b) He definitely isnt slow for his size

So either you have the wrong impression watching him play from the couch or you havent watched him and that is not even a matter of opinion I am talking facts here and quite a lot were mentioned in this thread if you are interested go check it out

But tell you what I am ready to make a bet with you. We both give eachother real life name surnames (facebook accounts if you want) and we make a bet regarding Doncic being this average ok player of Livingston post injury.

If you are right I ll come here and say it with my name and surname that I admit and I was wrong if not you ll come to this board and do the same.

Deal?

Ha sure, I'm not big on social media, but that sounds fair. How long should we give Doncic to prove it?

[Archx]

I've watched him play, and his lack of speed and athleticism is going to hinder him at the NBA level. I never once said Doncic is a bum and will suck, I said he'll be in the tier of hedo Turkaglu/Shaun Livingson post injury, both are solid players, but they are not franchise altering guys, certainly not guys you take with a top 5 pick

I am sorry daoneandonly if you truely have you wouldnt be saying this. Cause

a) he is not unathletic in fact there is a lot of evidence for his size that would suggest otherwise
b) He definitely isnt slow for his size

So either you have the wrong impression watching him play from the couch or you havent watched him and that is not even a matter of opinion I am talking facts here and quite a lot were mentioned in this thread if you are interested go check it out

But tell you what I am ready to make a bet with you. We both give eachother real life name surnames (facebook accounts if you want) and we make a bet regarding Doncic being this average ok player of Livingston post injury.

If you are right I ll come here and say it with my name and surname that I admit and I was wrong if not you ll come to this board and do the same.

Deal?

Ha sure, I'm not big on social media, but that sounds fair. How long should we give Doncic to prove it?

I have a suggestion for both of you. Luka is already on a plane flying to NY. When he lands, go wait for him and ask him how athletic he feels he is, so that this constant bickering if he is athletic or not can stop

And if a P3 director went on twitter with a video as a proof, to show that he is well above average in athleticism then i guess he is not that bad

[bondom34]

Posted it like 3 pages back.but if you see him guard Westbrook and think he can't be athletic enough

[BlueSan]

I've watched him play, and his lack of speed and athleticism is going to hinder him at the NBA level. I never once said Doncic is a bum and will suck, I said he'll be in the tier of hedo Turkaglu/Shaun Livingson post injury, both are solid players, but they are not franchise altering guys, certainly not guys you take with a top 5 pick

I am sorry daoneandonly if you truely have you wouldnt be saying this. Cause

a) he is not unathletic in fact there is a lot of evidence for his size that would suggest otherwise
b) He definitely isnt slow for his size

So either you have the wrong impression watching him play from the couch or you havent watched him and that is not even a matter of opinion I am talking facts here and quite a lot were mentioned in this thread if you are interested go check it out

But tell you what I am ready to make a bet with you. We both give eachother real life name surnames (facebook accounts if you want) and we make a bet regarding Doncic being this average ok player of Livingston post injury.

If you are right I ll come here and say it with my name and surname that I admit and I was wrong if not you ll come to this board and do the same.

Deal?

Ha sure, I'm not big on social media, but that sounds fair. How long should we give Doncic to prove it?

If in the first year in NBA he is not a special player I ll come here and say it. Maybe he will be like Dragič and later in his career he really makes it, but it doesnt matter, because with all he has achieved i think it is expected from him to be special from the get go.

If he is nothing special and just a team member in his rookie season then I ll come and say that he didnt live up to my expectations.

And you of course will do the opposite and come here and admit you were wrong. Should be interesting this way (not that it matters much heh)

[juanc]

I've watched him play, and his lack of speed and athleticism is going to hinder him at the NBA level. I never once said Doncic is a bum and will suck, I said he'll be in the tier of hedo Turkaglu/Shaun Livingson post injury, both are solid players, but they are not franchise altering guys, certainly not guys you take with a top 5 pick

I am sorry daoneandonly if you truely have you wouldnt be saying this. Cause

a) he is not unathletic in fact there is a lot of evidence for his size that would suggest otherwise
b) He definitely isnt slow for his size

So either you have the wrong impression watching him play from the couch or you havent watched him and that is not even a matter of opinion I am talking facts here and quite a lot were mentioned in this thread if you are interested go check it out

But tell you what I am ready to make a bet with you. We both give eachother real life name surnames (facebook accounts if you want) and we make a bet regarding Doncic being this average ok player of Livingston post injury.

If you are right I ll come here and say it with my name and surname that I admit and I was wrong if not you ll come to this board and do the same.

Deal?

Ha sure, I'm not big on social media, but that sounds fair. How long should we give Doncic to prove it?

Re: Luka Doncic Part III
4
Post#2920 » by Rn5ho » Yesterday 4:13 am

https://www.facebook.com/PeakPerformanceProject/videos/10156356863703864/

P3

As the #NBAdraft approaches, the biggest question surrounding Luka Doncic is if he is athletic enough to be a star in the league… In addition to possessing great positional size and very competitive lateral acceleration, Luka demonstrates elite, Harden-like, physical qualities associated with braking/change of direction compared to our #NBA database. Our Director of Biomechanics provides a breakdown.

Here you've got it

[daoneandonly]

I am sorry daoneandonly if you truely have you wouldnt be saying this. Cause

a) he is not unathletic in fact there is a lot of evidence for his size that would suggest otherwise
b) He definitely isnt slow for his size

So either you have the wrong impression watching him play from the couch or you havent watched him and that is not even a matter of opinion I am talking facts here and quite a lot were mentioned in this thread if you are interested go check it out

But tell you what I am ready to make a bet with you. We both give eachother real life name surnames (facebook accounts if you want) and we make a bet regarding Doncic being this average ok player of Livingston post injury.

If you are right I ll come here and say it with my name and surname that I admit and I was wrong if not you ll come to this board and do the same.

Deal?

Ha sure, I'm not big on social media, but that sounds fair. How long should we give Doncic to prove it?

If in the first year in NBA he is not a special player I ll come here and say it. Maybe he will be like Dragič and later in his career he really makes it, but it doesnt matter, because with all he has achieved i think it is expected from him to be special from the get go.

If he is nothing special and just a team member in his rookie season then I ll come and say that he didnt live up to my expectations.

And you of course will do the opposite and come here and admit you were wrong. Should be interesting this way (not that it matters much heh)

Sure! I have no problem with being wrong, and if Dallas had a pick in the 7-10 range, I'd have no issues taking Luka. I just dont want him with a pick this high. And I sure as hell would not take a bum like soft as Charmin parsons just to get a pick for Luka

[Rn5ho]

I am sorry daoneandonly if you truely have you wouldnt be saying this. Cause

a) he is not unathletic in fact there is a lot of evidence for his size that would suggest otherwise
b) He definitely isnt slow for his size

So either you have the wrong impression watching him play from the couch or you havent watched him and that is not even a matter of opinion I am talking facts here and quite a lot were mentioned in this thread if you are interested go check it out

But tell you what I am ready to make a bet with you. We both give eachother real life name surnames (facebook accounts if you want) and we make a bet regarding Doncic being this average ok player of Livingston post injury.

If you are right I ll come here and say it with my name and surname that I admit and I was wrong if not you ll come to this board and do the same.

Deal?

Ha sure, I'm not big on social media, but that sounds fair. How long should we give Doncic to prove it?

Re: Luka Doncic Part III
4
Post#2920 » by Rn5ho » Yesterday 4:13 am

https://www.facebook.com/PeakPerformanceProject/videos/10156356863703864/

P3

As the #NBAdraft approaches, the biggest question surrounding Luka Doncic is if he is athletic enough to be a star in the league… In addition to possessing great positional size and very competitive lateral acceleration, Luka demonstrates elite, Harden-like, physical qualities associated with braking/change of direction compared to our #NBA database. Our Director of Biomechanics provides a breakdown.

Here you've got it

Don't bother, he will ignore this He never responds to any posts that are straight up evidence that he's wrong. He will ignore this and continue his "he's not athletic" propaganda on the next page when this proof is left behind.

[daoneandonly]

Ha sure, I'm not big on social media, but that sounds fair. How long should we give Doncic to prove it?

Re: Luka Doncic Part III
4
Post#2920 » by Rn5ho » Yesterday 4:13 am

https://www.facebook.com/PeakPerformanceProject/videos/10156356863703864/

P3

As the #NBAdraft approaches, the biggest question surrounding Luka Doncic is if he is athletic enough to be a star in the league… In addition to possessing great positional size and very competitive lateral acceleration, Luka demonstrates elite, Harden-like, physical qualities associated with braking/change of direction compared to our #NBA database. Our Director of Biomechanics provides a breakdown.

Here you've got it

Don't bother, he will ignore this He never responds to any posts that are straight up evidence that he's wrong. He will ignore this and continue his "he's not athletic" propaganda on the next page when this proof is left behind.

Is it some computer simulation with cool colors that is supposed to be impressive here? The highlights he shows from games of Doncic are him schooling piss poor defenders, what does that prove?

[Rn5ho]

Mixing oranges and apples

[juanc]

Mixing oranges and apples

I hope Luka will be able to impress me like this guy

[Rn5ho]

To put you this in context:

Luka went to P3 to train and get measured 2 years ago. They took all the info they needed and already put it out back then:

https://www.facebook.com/PeakPerformanceProject/videos/10155225675353864/

Luka has spent a few weeks at P3 the past two summers. Luka combines outstanding anthropometric measurements, including an 8'9.5" standing reach (88th percentile for NBA guards) and 228.8 lbs of mass with very competitive and improving movement qualities. In the lateral plane, Luka's ability to abduct the hip (1 dev above the mean) allows him to generate Force more efficiently than most NBA players that we've assessed (71st percentile in lateral acceleration). He's become particularly adept in a change-of-direction environment, where his Slide Agility times outpace most NBA Guards tested at P3 and they've improved by roughly 0.25s in the past year. Vertically, Luka ranks better than 73% of NBA guards in height touched during the approach and his improved his countermovement jump by 2 inches in the past year. He's good now, he's still getting better, and he's well within his physical development window!

He was 17 here. This is not some "Oh, we went to see some highlights and based on our expert opinion we think he can be good and maybe like Harden" - this is hard raw data based on Luka's training at P3 facilities. Straight up facts. This was when he was still only 17,5.

But of course, when Luka has data from gym facilities measured by experts, it doesn't matter, because he looks "slow and non-athletic" dominating professional players in Europe, but when MM-underperforming talent from NCAA hits the gym and shoots those open 3s and jumps around, it's impressive.

Luka is NOT Westbrook or even anything near that, but he's damn right a decent athlete. He will NOT rely on his athleticism to play in NBA, but it will not hold him back either.

If P3 info is less reliable to you than your "eye test", then really..

[Archx]

To put you this in context:

Luka went to P3 to train and get measured 2 years ago. They took all the info they needed and already put it out back then:

https://www.facebook.com/PeakPerformanceProject/videos/10155225675353864/

Luka has spent a few weeks at P3 the past two summers. Luka combines outstanding anthropometric measurements, including an 8'9.5" standing reach (88th percentile for NBA guards) and 228.8 lbs of mass with very competitive and improving movement qualities. In the lateral plane, Luka's ability to abduct the hip (1 dev above the mean) allows him to generate Force more efficiently than most NBA players that we've assessed (71st percentile in lateral acceleration). He's become particularly adept in a change-of-direction environment, where his Slide Agility times outpace most NBA Guards tested at P3 and they've improved by roughly 0.25s in the past year. Vertically, Luka ranks better than 73% of NBA guards in height touched during the approach and his improved his countermovement jump by 2 inches in the past year. He's good now, he's still getting better, and he's well within his physical development window!

He was 17 here. This is not some "Oh, we went to see some highlights and based on our expert opinion we think he can be good and maybe like Harden" - this is hard raw data based on Luka's training at P3 facilities. Straight up facts. This was when he was still only 17,5.

But of course, when Luka has data from gym facilities measured by experts, it doesn't matter, because he looks "slow and non-athletic" dominating professional players in Europe, but when MM-underperforming talent from NCAA hits the gym and shoots those open 3s and jumps around, it's impressive.

Luka is NOT Westbrook or even anything near that, but he's damn right a decent athlete. He will NOT rely on his athleticism to play in NBA, but it will not hold him back either.

If P3 info is less reliable to you than your "eye test", then really..

Well to be fair, daoneandonly is not completely wrong here. Luka did look way more athletic when he was playing in Eurobasket than 6 months later. He looked faster, more agile and more "bouncy".
But he said he wants to go back to P3 and it is his priority. So i would figure he knows he lost some speed. Problem is, european clubs don't give so much importance to athleticism compared to NBA clubs. He will be alright, just needs some time.

[Rn5ho]

And that's my whole point.. he is simply not as bad athletically as some here are trying to show it. Sure he's not at his best right now, but the last 18 months he pretty much non-stop focused on other things - like winning titles.

Of course the college kids are showing "tremendous" gym results right now, they've finished their season 3 months ago and have since (probably) spent all days in the gym, improving their "combine" measurements to impress and climb up the draft pecking order. Luka will do that too over the summer.. if anywhere, he has A LOT of upside in this department still and it's just mind-blowing how some here are saying "he's finished product, he can't improve anymore" while he hasn't worked pretty much at all on these aspects in the last 1 year or so (this is an assumption tho, obviously I don't know 100% what he does in daily life, but he also said it himself, like Archx pointed out, that this is his next focus).

He wants to be like Lebron - if that's on his mind, he knows what he has to do. So I'm not afraid about that.

[arh1109]

Luka Doncic – Gilbert Arenas in a small forward’s body



An elite passer and shooter already. He is easily the most skilled player in the draft and possibly the Nba as well. Think Stephen Curry like handles and step back jumper. He should be used as a three and play spurts of power forward as well. He is 6’8 and has a standing reach of 8’9 similar to Blake Griffins. He is a genius at exploiting mismatches created in the game. He is probably a below average athlete in the Nba. This will hinder his ability to break guys down off the dribble and create offense. I think a good Nba defender won’t have much of a problem stopping his isolation dribble moves. He also will likely face tough defensive pressure from more athletic defenders. That being said, he is a very skilled basketball player and should fit in well on any team. He probably won’t bust like Adam Morrison but his ceiling may be limited to a solid starter in the league instead of a superstar.

[Rn5ho]

Luka Doncic – Gilbert Arenas in a small forward’s body



An elite passer and shooter already. He is easily the most skilled player in the draft and possibly the Nba as well. Think Stephen Curry like handles and step back jumper. He should be used as a three and play spurts of power forward as well. He is 6’8 and has a standing reach of 8’9 similar to Blake Griffins. He is a genius at exploiting mismatches created in the game. He is probably a below average athlete in the Nba. This will hinder his ability to break guys down off the dribble and create offense. I think a good Nba defender won’t have much of a problem stopping his isolation dribble moves. He also will likely face tough defensive pressure from more athletic defenders. That being said, he is a very skilled basketball player and should fit in well on any team. He probably won’t bust like Adam Morrison but his ceiling may be limited to a solid starter in the league instead of a superstar.

You do know that things I put in bold, if you put them together to describe one player.. they kind of don't make sense?

Player who is elite passer and shooter with Curry handles and back step jumper, mismatch genius who can play 1-4 would definitely not be a solid starter.

Elite shooter and Curry handles = Steph Curry himself. That alone is a superstar and Curry is not even elite passer. Doncic is nowhere near that yet. He has solid handles (above average even, considering his height) and he has the potential to be elite shooter one day, but as of now he's a decent shooter with right mechanics to improve.

[tria]

Luka Doncic – Gilbert Arenas in a small forward’s body



An elite passer and shooter already. He is easily the most skilled player in the draft and possibly the Nba as well. Think Stephen Curry like handles and step back jumper. He should be used as a three and play spurts of power forward as well. He is 6’8 and has a standing reach of 8’9 similar to Blake Griffins. He is a genius at exploiting mismatches created in the game. He is probably a below average athlete in the Nba. This will hinder his ability to break guys down off the dribble and create offense. I think a good Nba defender won’t have much of a problem stopping his isolation dribble moves. He also will likely face tough defensive pressure from more athletic defenders. That being said, he is a very skilled basketball player and should fit in well on any team. He probably won’t bust like Adam Morrison but his ceiling may be limited to a solid starter in the league instead of a superstar.

How on earth can someone start with "elite passer and shooter", takes it to wtf high level of "easily the most skilled player in the draft and possibly the Nba as well", adds "He is a genius at exploiting mismatches"
and concludes with
"He probably won’t bust like Adam Morrison but his ceiling may be limited to a solid starter in the league instead of a superstar."


EDIT: Too slow, not the only one with this conclusion

Btw, does someone else have this bizzare problem. Whenever i'm writing a post, Chrome freezes for 10 seconds and goes black, then resumes like normal. Right now i realized it is somehow GPU problem, as stream on next window also freezes and Task manager shows GPU spike...

[arh1109]

Luka Doncic – Gilbert Arenas in a small forward’s body



An elite passer and shooter already. He is easily the most skilled player in the draft and possibly the Nba as well. Think Stephen Curry like handles and step back jumper. He should be used as a three and play spurts of power forward as well. He is 6’8 and has a standing reach of 8’9 similar to Blake Griffins. He is a genius at exploiting mismatches created in the game. He is probably a below average athlete in the Nba. This will hinder his ability to break guys down off the dribble and create offense. I think a good Nba defender won’t have much of a problem stopping his isolation dribble moves. He also will likely face tough defensive pressure from more athletic defenders. That being said, he is a very skilled basketball player and should fit in well on any team. He probably won’t bust like Adam Morrison but his ceiling may be limited to a solid starter in the league instead of a superstar.

You do know that things I put in bold, if you put them together to describe one player.. they kind of don't make sense?

Player who is elite passer and shooter with Curry handles and back step jumper, mismatch genius who can play 1-4 would definitely not be a solid starter.

Elite shooter and Curry handles = Steph Curry himself. That alone is a superstar and Curry is not even elite passer. Doncic is nowhere near that yet. He has solid handles (above average even, considering his height) and he has the potential to be elite shooter one day, but as of now he's a decent shooter with right mechanics to improve.

You can be incredibly skilled and not be an nba starter. Like be really short?

[mabundo_nagumbe]

Luka Doncic – Gilbert Arenas in a small forward’s body



An elite passer and shooter already. He is easily the most skilled player in the draft and possibly the Nba as well. Think Stephen Curry like handles and step back jumper. He should be used as a three and play spurts of power forward as well. He is 6’8 and has a standing reach of 8’9 similar to Blake Griffins. He is a genius at exploiting mismatches created in the game. He is probably a below average athlete in the Nba. This will hinder his ability to break guys down off the dribble and create offense. I think a good Nba defender won’t have much of a problem stopping his isolation dribble moves. He also will likely face tough defensive pressure from more athletic defenders. That being said, he is a very skilled basketball player and should fit in well on any team. He probably won’t bust like Adam Morrison but his ceiling may be limited to a solid starter in the league instead of a superstar.

You do know that things I put in bold, if you put them together to describe one player.. they kind of don't make sense?

Player who is elite passer and shooter with Curry handles and back step jumper, mismatch genius who can play 1-4 would definitely not be a solid starter.

Elite shooter and Curry handles = Steph Curry himself. That alone is a superstar and Curry is not even elite passer. Doncic is nowhere near that yet. He has solid handles (above average even, considering his height) and he has the potential to be elite shooter one day, but as of now he's a decent shooter with right mechanics to improve.

You can be incredibly skilled and not be an nba starter. Like be really short?

or have only one leg you mean?

[Rn5ho]

Luka Doncic – Gilbert Arenas in a small forward’s body



An elite passer and shooter already. He is easily the most skilled player in the draft and possibly the Nba as well. Think Stephen Curry like handles and step back jumper. He should be used as a three and play spurts of power forward as well. He is 6’8 and has a standing reach of 8’9 similar to Blake Griffins. He is a genius at exploiting mismatches created in the game. He is probably a below average athlete in the Nba. This will hinder his ability to break guys down off the dribble and create offense. I think a good Nba defender won’t have much of a problem stopping his isolation dribble moves. He also will likely face tough defensive pressure from more athletic defenders. That being said, he is a very skilled basketball player and should fit in well on any team. He probably won’t bust like Adam Morrison but his ceiling may be limited to a solid starter in the league instead of a superstar.

You do know that things I put in bold, if you put them together to describe one player.. they kind of don't make sense?

Player who is elite passer and shooter with Curry handles and back step jumper, mismatch genius who can play 1-4 would definitely not be a solid starter.

Elite shooter and Curry handles = Steph Curry himself. That alone is a superstar and Curry is not even elite passer. Doncic is nowhere near that yet. He has solid handles (above average even, considering his height) and he has the potential to be elite shooter one day, but as of now he's a decent shooter with right mechanics to improve.

You can be incredibly skilled and not be an nba starter. Like be really short?

I agree, but I'm not sure what you're referring to

[Mirotic12]

Where does his season rank internationally in terms of success and personal accolades?

European champion with Slovenia
Euroleague champion with Real
ACB champion with Real

Euroleague regular and final 4 MVP
ACB regular season MVP

That is crazy for any player let alone an 18/19 year old.

Has any player ever had this kind of team success and individual awards?

Doubt anybody has ever achieved anything like that in one season in international basketball...

Actually, similar things have happened many times. Just never at age 19.

Do European fans think there's any truth to Doncic not wanting to play in Sacramento for Vlade Divac? That seems to be the rumor mill Jonathan Givony is spreading around. He says Doncic doesn't want to come here, and says that Vlade won't draft him to save face just in case Doncic demands a trade (paraphrasing).

Givony also admitted he doesn't want Doncic to go to Sacramento, so I'm not sure if he's trying to push his own narrative, or if Doncic actually doesn't want to play for Vlade.

As someone that regularly follows European basketball, and read Draftexpress for years - I can tell you with 100% confidence that Jonathan Givony has never had the first clue, or even one iota of knowledge about any European basketball players, or anything related to European basketball at all.

I've never trusted a word he says on the subject.

Well to be fair, daoneandonly is not completely wrong here. Luka did look way more athletic when he was playing in Eurobasket than 6 months later. He looked faster, more agile and more "bouncy".
But he said he wants to go back to P3 and it is his priority. So i would figure he knows he lost some speed. Problem is, european clubs don't give so much importance to athleticism compared to NBA clubs. He will be alright, just needs some time.

It's been explained over and over here...EuroBasket is well below the level of EuroLeague. You can't do half the things you can in EuroBasket against EuroLeague teams. Even the worst EuroLeague team (Efes) is better than Slovenia's national team that won the gold medal at EuroBasket.

And again, no defensive 3 seconds in NBA, defensive players not having the right to their position against drivers in NBA, and little contact allowed by refs in NBA, man to man defense mostly in NBA, + plus a bigger court, and a further 3 point line in NBA, which means more spacing and defense that is much less tight and physical than in EuroLeague, with drives to the rim being much less contested in NBA. Player after player after player that has been in both leagues has said that.