Luka Doncic Part III

[Juree93]

https://hoopshype.com/2018/06/20/luka-doncic-nba-draft-rumors-winner-larkin-dorell-jackson-upside/

Luka Doncic just won the ACB title with Real Madrid, capping off an amazing year in which the 19-year-old point forward also won the Euroleague championship and the Eurobasket with his Slovenian National Team. The 6-foot-8 guard was named the Most Valuable Player of the Spanish League as well as the Euroleague.

To get a better idea of Doncic’s skill set, put his incredible year into perspective and figure out how his game may translate to the NBA, we talked to 11 players who have played against Doncic overseas (many of whom matched up against him on numerous occasions). HoopsHype talked to the following players:

[J_T]

It's been explained over and over here...EuroBasket is well below the level of EuroLeague.

Only by you, so you can safely ditch the "it has been explained" and simply state "I have explained". I would say that's fair.


As for P3 results, I think they are good and they definitely show that Doncic is not as unathletic as some want him to be, but at the same time we need to be careful not to say that those are his current stats. He is 2 inches taller and probably 20 pounds heavier. I believe his plan is to do those tests again this summer and while I don't know whether they will share any data, it would definitely be interesting to see how he compares. Obviously the data that compares his size dependent stats to other NBA guards are going to be even better. Lateral speed though... not sure about that.

He will have to work hard on his body and he acknowledged that few days ago, saying that his physical preparation and his shot require most attention. I am especially glad that he recognizes he needs to put a lot of work into shooting, because it might not be as obvious to a teenager who is at the top of the world after winning everything available to him. Those arguing against Doncic by saying he is a 30% 3PT shooter are going to be facing the cold reality relatively soon in my opinion. They probably don't understand how an expert might look at a player, look at his technique, free throws and conclude that the player is going to be a very good shooter. But it is possible, I'm afraid, just as it's possible to look at some other player and conclude that the player will never become a good shooter.

[Archx]

I've never trusted a word he says on the subject.

Well to be fair, daoneandonly is not completely wrong here. Luka did look way more athletic when he was playing in Eurobasket than 6 months later. He looked faster, more agile and more "bouncy".
But he said he wants to go back to P3 and it is his priority. So i would figure he knows he lost some speed. Problem is, european clubs don't give so much importance to athleticism compared to NBA clubs. He will be alright, just needs some time.

It's been explained over and over here...EuroBasket is well below the level of EuroLeague. You can't do half the things you can in EuroBasket against EuroLeague teams. Even the worst EuroLeague team (Efes) is better than Slovenia's national team that won the gold medal at EuroBasket.

You have got to be joking, right? Dragič alone is better than 95% of that Efes team... The way Slovenia played, the only team giving them problems would be Real Madrid WITH Luka on Real's team. And that's purely because of Tavares and maybe Ayon under the basket.

But my point was, Doncic looked a bit slow in the last game of playoffs. Maybe he was tired or his mind was already on tomorrows draft but all in all he had much more energy in Eurobasket, which is understandable after such long season.

[Rn5ho]

Aaron Jackson:

And Doncic’s athleticism will only get better once he’s in the weight room with his NBA team. I just got to experience the difference between Euroleague strength and conditioning versus NBA strength and conditioning, and it’s night and day!”

[Mirotic12]

You have got to be joking, right? Dragič alone is better than 95% of that Efes team... The way Slovenia played, the only team giving them problems would be Real Madrid WITH Luka on Real's team. And that's purely because of Tavares and maybe Ayon under the basket.

But my point was, Doncic looked a bit slow in the last game of playoffs. Maybe he was tired or his mind was already on tomorrows draft but all in all he had much more energy in Eurobasket, which is understandable after such long season.

Slovenian national team was about half as talented as Barca's roster. Barca didn't even make the EuroLeague playoffs. The difference of level in the two competitions is bigger than the difference between EuroLeague and EuroCup.

This is not even remotely at all debatable.

[Mirotic12]

As for P3 results, I think they are good and they definitely show that Doncic is not as unathletic as some want him to be, but at the same time we need to be careful not to say that those are his current stats. He is 2 inches taller and probably 20 pounds heavier. I believe his plan is to do those tests again this summer and while I don't know whether they will share any data, it would definitely be interesting to see how he compares. Obviously the data that compares his size dependent stats to other NBA guards are going to be even better. Lateral speed though... not sure about that.

He will have to work hard on his body and he acknowledged that few days ago, saying that his physical preparation and his shot require most attention. I am especially glad that he recognizes he needs to put a lot of work into shooting, because it might not be as obvious to a teenager who is at the top of the world after winning everything available to him. Those arguing against Doncic by saying he is a 30% 3PT shooter are going to be facing the cold reality relatively soon in my opinion. They probably don't understand how an expert might look at a player, look at his technique, free throws and conclude that the player is going to be a very good shooter. But it is possible, I'm afraid, just as it's possible to look at some other player and conclude that the player will never become a good shooter.

That's incorrect. He was listed at 6-8 in shoes then, and he is that same height now. There is no way he is 6-10 in shoes. He's very clearly shorter than Felipe Reyes, who is 6-9.

Also, they listed him at 229 pounds then, so no way is he 249 pounds now. In fact, the last I heard he was just recently weighed at 230. He's got good size, but he's nowhere near being 6-10 249.

[Rn5ho]

You have got to be joking, right? Dragič alone is better than 95% of that Efes team... The way Slovenia played, the only team giving them problems would be Real Madrid WITH Luka on Real's team. And that's purely because of Tavares and maybe Ayon under the basket.

But my point was, Doncic looked a bit slow in the last game of playoffs. Maybe he was tired or his mind was already on tomorrows draft but all in all he had much more energy in Eurobasket, which is understandable after such long season.

Slovenian national team was about half as talented as Barca's roster. Barca didn't even make the EuroLeague playoffs. The difference of level in the two competitions is bigger than the difference between EuroLeague and EuroCup.

This is not even remotely at all debatable.

Dončič is EL MVP, Dragič is NBA allstar, Prepelič was just signed by RM and they wanted him already after the Euro. Randolph literally is on RM team. Vidmar is a very good defensive Center that was also wanted by RM when Ayon went down, but was too expensive.

I don't know what universe you live in, but holy crap sometimes you go way too far.

Not to mention Spain NT that had Rubio, Sergio Rodriguez, Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Hernangomez brothers, Navarro, San Emeterio.

Are you seriously (literally factually non-debatably and whatever other word you like to use) saying that these two teams are worse than Efes, Barca and others?

[J_T]

You have got to be joking, right? Dragič alone is better than 95% of that Efes team... The way Slovenia played, the only team giving them problems would be Real Madrid WITH Luka on Real's team. And that's purely because of Tavares and maybe Ayon under the basket.

But my point was, Doncic looked a bit slow in the last game of playoffs. Maybe he was tired or his mind was already on tomorrows draft but all in all he had much more energy in Eurobasket, which is understandable after such long season.

Slovenian national team was about half as talented as Barca's roster. Barca didn't even make the EuroLeague playoffs. The difference of level in the two competitions is bigger than the difference between EuroLeague and EuroCup.

This is not even remotely at all debatable.

Yes, it is very much debatable and just you saying it isn't doesn't make it true. You are not GOD. The collective basketball knowledge of all the people that disagree with you should EASILY top your perceived knowledge.

As for his size/weight, I think there might be a bit of misunderstanding when those tests were done and it could be from my side. As I understand he did P3 testing twice and it's not completely clear to me which stats are from when. If you are right, even better, the tests are even more impressive. He is two inches taller and 20 pounds heavier compared to 2015 and eye test easily confirms it. BTW, can you give me link that clearly states that in 2016 P3 testing Doncic was measured 6-8 in shoes? The reports that I read don't mention height at all, only weight and standing reach. I could be getting really bad at googling...

[Mirotic12]

Dončič is EL MVP, Dragič is NBA allstar, Prepelič was just signed by RM and they wanted him already after the Euro. Randolph literally is on RM team. Vidmar is a very good defensive Center that was also wanted by RM when Ayon went down, but was too expensive.

I don't know what universe you live in, but holy crap sometimes you go way too far.

Not to mention Spain NT that had Rubio, Sergio Rodriguez, Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Hernangomez brothers, Navarro, San Emeterio.

Are you seriously (literally factually non-debatably and whatever other word you like to use) saying that these two teams are worse than Efes, Barca and others?

There is no one that closely follows European basketball and has a good knowledge of the game that will ever say EuroBasket is comparable to EuroLeague. No one. Not ever. People saying otherwise, either don't follow European basketball closely and/or don't have a clear grasp of the game.

As for his size/weight, I think there might be a bit of misunderstanding when those tests were done and it could be from my side. As I understand he did P3 testing twice and it's not completely clear to me which stats are from when. If you are right, even better, the tests are even more impressive. He is two inches taller and 20 pounds heavier compared to 2015 and eye test easily confirms it. BTW, can you give me link that clearly states that in 2016 P3 testing Doncic was measured 6-8 in shoes? The reports that I read don't mention height at all, only weight and standing reach. I could be getting really bad at googling...

I am pretty sure it stated he was 6-8 in shoes (that's how they do the listings for basketball players) and weighed 229 pounds. I'm not sure where to get a link for that though.

[Rn5ho]

Dončič is EL MVP, Dragič is NBA allstar, Prepelič was just signed by RM and they wanted him already after the Euro. Randolph literally is on RM team. Vidmar is a very good defensive Center that was also wanted by RM when Ayon went down, but was too expensive.

I don't know what universe you live in, but holy crap sometimes you go way too far.

Not to mention Spain NT that had Rubio, Sergio Rodriguez, Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Hernangomez brothers, Navarro, San Emeterio.

Are you seriously (literally factually non-debatably and whatever other word you like to use) saying that these two teams are worse than Efes, Barca and others?

There is no one that closely follows European basketball and has a good knowledge of the game that will ever say EuroBasket is comparable to EuroLeague. No one. Not ever. People saying otherwise, either don't follow European basketball closely and/or don't have a clear grasp of the game.

You said that Barca/Efes are better/more talented than Slovenia and any other EuroBasket

Anyway, doesn't matter. This is off-topic again. 24h to go for the draft!

[DryPaint]

??

here is how mirotic "debates":

eurobasket is 5 levels below euroleague or eurocup. anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot, and didnt watch a game of basketball in his life

fellow hobbit, seems you dont get anything other then the weekly recap of euroleague and uleb play on your shi... tv antenna on a goat island somewhere in greece, because that latvian team alone would crush and outshoot any team you name from your leagues you get on your tv, and i didnt even mention the other teams the slovenian team beat in SPAIN, FRANCE, SERBIA, etc...

oh yeah, did i mention, that a league is in the making over the big blue ocean, called the NBA. a rumor raven has told be, it is supposed to feature the best of the best clans and warriors in the whole earthly globe? #GOZ

get your head out of your cocky ass man

[KF10]

The Kings better draft this kid at 2.

[Bob8]

Mirotic12 is exaggerating but if you compare Real and Slovenian NT, it’s obvious that Real’s 12 man roster is much better than Slovenian NT. Only Dragic is better. In tournament with knockout games NTs can maybe win Euroleague teams, but if they played in Euroleague season and domestic league, 80 matches, they would have 0 chances against better Euroleague teams, because you cannot play season like that with 5 good players. The only exception is Spain.

Real, http://www.euroleague.net/competition/teams/showteam?clubcode=mad&seasoncode=E2017

Slovenia, http://www.fiba.basketball/eurobasket/2017/Slovenia#%7Ctab=roster

[BlueSan]

Rashard Phillips wouldnt pick him in the lottery and he would pick Trae young at 1.

Watch on YouTube

[DryPaint]

Mirotic12 is exaggerating but if you compare Real and Slovenian NT, it’s obvious that Real’s 12 man roster is much better than Slovenian NT. Only Dragic is better. In tournament with knockout games NTs can maybe win Euroleague teams, but if they played in Euroleague season and domestic league, 80 matches, they would have 0 chances against better Euroleague teams, because you cannot play season like that with 5 good players. The only exception is Spain.

Real, http://www.euroleague.net/competition/teams/showteam?clubcode=mad&seasoncode=E2017

Slovenia, http://www.fiba.basketball/eurobasket/2017/Slovenia#%7Ctab=roster

we are talking about the tournament. and the games played there. not talking about puting latvia, serbia, france, greece, croatia, slovenia and spain into a 80 games season.

we are talking about those 10,11 games. in there, i dare to say the eurobasket saw better basketball then a eurolegue season. i wont even mention the eurocup.

[Bob8]

Mirotic12 is exaggerating but if you compare Real and Slovenian NT, it’s obvious that Real’s 12 man roster is much better than Slovenian NT. Only Dragic is better. In tournament with knockout games NTs can maybe win Euroleague teams, but if they played in Euroleague season and domestic league, 80 matches, they would have 0 chances against better Euroleague teams, because you cannot play season like that with 5 good players. The only exception is Spain.

Real, http://www.euroleague.net/competition/teams/showteam?clubcode=mad&seasoncode=E2017

Slovenia, http://www.fiba.basketball/eurobasket/2017/Slovenia#%7Ctab=roster

we are talking about the tournament. and the games played there. not talking about puting latvia, serbia, france, greece, croatia, slovenia and spain into a 80 games season.

we are talking about those 10,11 games. in there, i dare to say the eurobasket saw better basketball then a eurolegue season. i wont even mention the eurocup.

I believe Real, Fener, Cska and Panathinaikos would be favorits against Slovenia in Eurobasket. But in knockout games anything can happen of course. Slovenia was 30:1 before tournament and they have won. In best off 7 series, Slovenia would have little chance against those teams. All this is theoretical, but if we are just looking roster wise, only Spain had comparable roster to the best Euroleague teams, because of the all missing players from Serbia, France, Greece...

[Nikson]

Rashad. Bias as f.... He has no skin in the game. Fox crap. I bet he wouldn’t bet a1$ on his own predictions.
Everybody sees something and he trying to outsmart them all by picking Luka out of lottery.

Deoneandonly Fox voice.

[Bob8]

Read on Twitter

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2Fboards%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D1712073%26start%3D420

[DryPaint]

Mirotic12 is exaggerating but if you compare Real and Slovenian NT, it’s obvious that Real’s 12 man roster is much better than Slovenian NT. Only Dragic is better. In tournament with knockout games NTs can maybe win Euroleague teams, but if they played in Euroleague season and domestic league, 80 matches, they would have 0 chances against better Euroleague teams, because you cannot play season like that with 5 good players. The only exception is Spain.

Real, http://www.euroleague.net/competition/teams/showteam?clubcode=mad&seasoncode=E2017

Slovenia, http://www.fiba.basketball/eurobasket/2017/Slovenia#%7Ctab=roster

we are talking about the tournament. and the games played there. not talking about puting latvia, serbia, france, greece, croatia, slovenia and spain into a 80 games season.

we are talking about those 10,11 games. in there, i dare to say the eurobasket saw better basketball then a eurolegue season. i wont even mention the eurocup.

I believe Real, Fener, Cska and Panathinaikos would be favorits against Slovenia in Eurobasket. But in knockout games anything can happen of course. Slovenia was 30:1 before tournament and they have won. In best off 7 series, Slovenia would have little chance against those teams. All this is theoretical, but if we are just looking roster wise, only Spain had comparable roster to the best Euroleague teams, because of the all missing players from Serbia, France, Greece...

do you believe fener, real, cska, panathinaikos would be the favorites against spain? NO? but how? slovenia beat them by 20.

so you cant go by names, but you have to go by the sense of urgency, the fight, no calculations, just pure energy and hustle that a tournament brings along. and saying that, the EUROBASKET packed into that month had shown us BETTER BASKETBALL then a whole season of the euroleague.

do you understand what i am saying? i see you are a stats, and name guy, so i guess this kind of stuff when you have to consider other factors will give you problems to understand

[JPF]

You have got to be joking, right? Dragič alone is better than 95% of that Efes team... The way Slovenia played, the only team giving them problems would be Real Madrid WITH Luka on Real's team. And that's purely because of Tavares and maybe Ayon under the basket.

But my point was, Doncic looked a bit slow in the last game of playoffs. Maybe he was tired or his mind was already on tomorrows draft but all in all he had much more energy in Eurobasket, which is understandable after such long season.

Slovenian national team was about half as talented as Barca's roster. Barca didn't even make the EuroLeague playoffs. The difference of level in the two competitions is bigger than the difference between EuroLeague and EuroCup.

This is not even remotely at all debatable.

Mate, Slovenian NT obviously didn't win the eurobasket purely on talent, eventhough some Slo players are notoriously underestimated by those that somewhat consider only euroleague players of some value. Indeed for those Prepelič or Vidmar might be some big revelation, while needless to say, at least now we got to stop listening about Dragič's mediocrity and only being able to perform in NBA, which were mostly based on those few laughable games with Baskonia, where he was clearly out of shape just as most other NBA players waiting for the lockout to end.

We could set a simmilar example with Spain, divide Spanish NT to two equal teams (Gasol bros+ Hernandez bros. + add Rodriguez, Rubio, llull, Rudy, Abrines, Navarro, Vives...) and both teams would be expected to meet in the euroleague finals.
Or second example, French NT ended up 12th in the eurobasket, but looks twice as talented as Žalgiris that ended up 4th in euroleague. You see what I did there?
Basketball isn't about the rosters only. If it was, this wouldn't be the first Slovenian medal in eurobasket's history.

As much as you hate to admit that, just as NBA has a big advantage individualy, so do the european NBAers that are in majority a notable upgrade upon euroleague talent.