Markelle Fultz

[PLO]

Well, I for one would take Fultz over Ball (I'd also take Smith over Ball as well) for the 6ers; Ball isn't a great fit for us.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Imagine what he thought when they acquired Isaiah Thomas.

[Duke4life831]

I thought Ball really outplayed Fultz tonight in all aspects of the game and I've liked Ball better as a prospect than Fultz just slightly. But you still saw the great potential Fultz has tonight. Effortless shot off the dribble, not a freak athlete but still a plus athlete. Great body control while attacking the rim. Can't say it enough, this draft class is stacked. Can't forget about DSJ who dropped 31/9 today. Stacked

[I_Never Lied]

By chucker I mean high usage like IT, Harden, Westbrook not %. And because I mostly care about my Celtics I don't think he's a good fit for us while we have IT. Are people really thinking that Fultz will someday score 28 ppg like IT? Too funny. Now if they take Fultz and move IT I'm fine with that and wouldn't be upset if the Celtics took him even at #1. Fultz is obviously doing extremely well in college as he should. I'm not missing what is special about him. I just don't think it's that translatable once he leaves college. I think Ball is an elite floor general and passer. I think Fox is as well but elite defensively and has huge offensive upside as he works on his shot. DSJ is the better PnR player and elite athlete of the bunch. Fultz is just behind them imo. He's also behind the best wings and big men imo too. Why is that received so poorly? Is it because groupthink has him as #1? Groupthink has been incredible wrong so many times you'd think people would eventually stop regurgitating opinions from DraftExpress and nbadraft.net.

Ball is an ELITE floor General and Passer? How many of the Top 25 scorers in the NBA are ELITE passers and can't score? I'm a make it real simple for you. He's way ahead of where James Harden was at 18 years old, so please stop.

no.

you make no sense. Are you trying to say Ball ISN'T an elite floor general and passer lmao? if so...please stop. What does top 25 scorers have to do with floor generals and passing? too funny

"How many of the Top 25 scorers in the NBA are ELITE passers and can't score?"

lmao what are you even asking? How can you be a top 25 scorer in the NBA and can't score? What in the heck is going on with this question?

I'm pointing out that what Ball is good at is useless in the NBA and doesn't translate into wins.The best floor General in the NBA has never even been to the conference finals.

[E-Balla]

Ball is an ELITE floor General and Passer? How many of the Top 25 scorers in the NBA are ELITE passers and can't score? I'm a make it real simple for you. He's way ahead of where James Harden was at 18 years old, so please stop.

no.

you make no sense. Are you trying to say Ball ISN'T an elite floor general and passer lmao? if so...please stop. What does top 25 scorers have to do with floor generals and passing? too funny

"How many of the Top 25 scorers in the NBA are ELITE passers and can't score?"

lmao what are you even asking? How can you be a top 25 scorer in the NBA and can't score? What in the heck is going on with this question?

I'm pointing out that what Ball is good at is useless in the NBA and doesn't translate into wins.The best floor General in the NBA has never even been to the conference finals.

And he's pointing out that that word salad means nothing.

"How many of the Top 25 scorers in the NBA are ELITE passers and can't score?"

Do you not get that this sentence makes no sense?

[reanimator]

I'm still waiting for Fultz to drop down to the "30-35%" range from 3. The FTs are definitely an issue, though, and the lack of competitiveness manifests itself on D for him.

Other than that... Ball is who we thought he is, UCLA has an offense UW can't keep up with, and they were especially keyed in on Fultz. If Fultz clocks out mentally like Ben Simmons then I'll dock him but until then he still comes in game after game putting up efficient production without any bad body language.

[I_Never Lied]

no.

you make no sense. Are you trying to say Ball ISN'T an elite floor general and passer lmao? if so...please stop. What does top 25 scorers have to do with floor generals and passing? too funny

"How many of the Top 25 scorers in the NBA are ELITE passers and can't score?"

lmao what are you even asking? How can you be a top 25 scorer in the NBA and can't score? What in the heck is going on with this question?

I'm pointing out that what Ball is good at is useless in the NBA and doesn't translate into wins.The best floor General in the NBA has never even been to the conference finals.

And he's pointing out that that word salad means nothing.

"How many of the Top 25 scorers in the NBA are ELITE passers and can't score?"

Do you not get that this sentence makes no sense?

OK but what is the point of arguing that (I meant to say"players" btw)
We all know the point of contention is that being a floor general and passer is not the answer in the NBA.

[CptCrunch]

no.

you make no sense. Are you trying to say Ball ISN'T an elite floor general and passer lmao? if so...please stop. What does top 25 scorers have to do with floor generals and passing? too funny

"How many of the Top 25 scorers in the NBA are ELITE passers and can't score?"

lmao what are you even asking? How can you be a top 25 scorer in the NBA and can't score? What in the heck is going on with this question?

I'm pointing out that what Ball is good at is useless in the NBA and doesn't translate into wins.The best floor General in the NBA has never even been to the conference finals.

And he's pointing out that that word salad means nothing.

"How many of the Top 25 scorers in the NBA are ELITE passers and can't score?"

Do you not get that this sentence makes no sense?

I think people are arguing that Ball is a transcendental passer like Nash or Stockton. Their scoring is respectable but not dominant.

[I_Never Lied]

I'm pointing out that what Ball is good at is useless in the NBA and doesn't translate into wins.The best floor General in the NBA has never even been to the conference finals.

And he's pointing out that that word salad means nothing.

"How many of the Top 25 scorers in the NBA are ELITE passers and can't score?"

Do you not get that this sentence makes no sense?

I think people are arguing that Ball is a transcendental passer like Nash or Stockton. Their scoring is respectable but not dominant.

Lol,no one here believes that. How many championships have those guys won? Not knocking them but its been well established what wins in the NBA.

[Marcus]

And he's pointing out that that word salad means nothing.

"How many of the Top 25 scorers in the NBA are ELITE passers and can't score?"

Do you not get that this sentence makes no sense?

I think people are arguing that Ball is a transcendental passer like Nash or Stockton. Their scoring is respectable but not dominant.

Lol,no one here believes that. How many championships have those guys won? Not knocking them but its been well established what wins in the NBA.

What does their passing ability have to do with championships?

[eagereyez]

I'm pointing out that what Ball is good at is useless in the NBA and doesn't translate into wins.The best floor General in the NBA has never even been to the conference finals.

And he's pointing out that that word salad means nothing.

"How many of the Top 25 scorers in the NBA are ELITE passers and can't score?"

Do you not get that this sentence makes no sense?

I think people are arguing that Ball is a transcendental passer like Nash or Stockton. Their scoring is respectable but not dominant.

The people arguing that are box score analysts.

Ball: 31.7% AST% 18.4% TOV%
Fultz: 34.5% AST% 12.8% TOV%
Smith: 37.4% AST% 15.7% TOV%

Ball's playmaking is overrated. UCLA just runs a much more efficient offense than UW and NCst. If Fultz and Smith maintained their AST%/TOV% ratio on UCLA, UCLA's offense would be even better. And I see no reason why their AST%/TOV% ratio would become worse from playing with better teammates. It should improve if anything.

[jrob23]

Honestly seems like your hatred of Fultz is somewhat personal...

hatred? towards an NBA prospect? One who might end up being a Celtic? lmao. Okay!!! So pointing out he's sloppy due to turnovers? Fact. A poor FT shooter? Fact. High usage chucker? Fact. Sorry not sorry the hype level is not warranted. I wanted Murray and had concerns about Brown. Didn't mean I "hated" Brown. I'm Brown's biggest defender on here now

[jrob23]

Imagine what he thought when they acquired Isaiah Thomas.

you mean what I still think? He can be a black hole and the league's biggest defensive liability. Those things not true?

[jrob23]

Ball is an ELITE floor General and Passer? How many of the Top 25 scorers in the NBA are ELITE passers and can't score? I'm a make it real simple for you. He's way ahead of where James Harden was at 18 years old, so please stop.

no.

you make no sense. Are you trying to say Ball ISN'T an elite floor general and passer lmao? if so...please stop. What does top 25 scorers have to do with floor generals and passing? too funny

"How many of the Top 25 scorers in the NBA are ELITE passers and can't score?"

lmao what are you even asking? How can you be a top 25 scorer in the NBA and can't score? What in the heck is going on with this question?

I'm pointing out that what Ball is good at is useless in the NBA and doesn't translate into wins.The best floor General in the NBA has never even been to the conference finals.

serious post? Ball had 3 less points on 7 or 8 less shots than Fultz last night. He has deeper range than Fultz, is a better passer, rebounder and defender. He even showed a tear drop shot. How exactly are those things that don't help teams win in the NBA. Just stop...it's getting scary.

[reanimator]

I'm confused. I thought chucker and efficient are antagonistic terms. Fultz is historically efficient.

All advanced metrics where passing, rebounding and defense are concerned point to Fultz, not Ball. Mind you he has a absurd assist rate with abysmal teammates. The real kicker is that the lions share of Ball's scoring is off creation/passes by teammates, a luxury Fultz cannot afford, and still has no decisive offensive efficiency edge over Fultz.

Fultz, Ball, and DSJ all go through the motions defensively but all have shown plenty of flashes as capable defenders. Thats typical of any young guard at the college level.

Throw in his age (he is the youngest of the top 4 and near 1.5 years younger than JJ) and there is as lot to like. His FT percentage is an issue (same with Ball) and he will have to adjust to the NBA 3 point line but just last month you guys had the narrative going that he couldn't even knock the college 3 ball down at an efficient rate.

[The-Power]

Mind you he has a absurd assist rate with abysmal teammates.

Well, those two go hand in hand to some extent. Fultz is their entire offense and the players around him are mostly finishers. Poor finishers, but finishers as they cannot create by themselves. So you would expect a high assist rate mainly because nobody else on that team is worth much.

Ball has a lower assist rate but he plays with other capable creators and on a highly efficient offense which is built around ball movement. So I don't see the surprise and I don't believe we should really draw our conclusion in actual player comparisons on advanced boxscore stats at the college level. Not to mention that assist rate by itself doesn't mean much and is at least as much an indicator of offensive role/polarization as it is an indicator of playmaking ability. Ball also pushes the pace like nobody else basically which is more risky individually but produces great efficiency at the team level. Ball, for what it's worth, looks like the most disruptive and consistent defender among the top PG prospects to me.

That said, Fultz has to carry a crazy load. His teammates are really bad and rely on him to do everything on the floor. There's only so much you can do under those circumstances as a PG or player really. I wouldn't knock him for the team performances. Washington's offense is actually quite respectable considering the talent level around Fultz which is a testament to his impact. If he had shown reasons to doubt his ability to produce efficient offense with better teammates I'd be very cautious but I don't see that - he's quite efficient as a scorer, creates for others, willing to take a backseat for some time, even sets screens for his teammates off the ball. Obviously we can't credit him for being able to lead a high-octane offense either but that's normal for young guys, especially in college.

So let's stick to looking at his skills and skill-level instead of reaching too far to get a point across. I'm not set on who I'd pick first. Fultz, Ball, Jackson and Isaac are probably top four for me at this point in some order. I'm not as sold on DSJ - and Tatum for that matter - as others seem to be so they'd be next up with a bunch of other players. But at this point it's still not carved in stone and a lot can change.

[E-Balla]

And he's pointing out that that word salad means nothing.

"How many of the Top 25 scorers in the NBA are ELITE passers and can't score?"

Do you not get that this sentence makes no sense?

I think people are arguing that Ball is a transcendental passer like Nash or Stockton. Their scoring is respectable but not dominant.

The people arguing that are box score analysts.

Ball: 31.7% AST% 18.4% TOV%
Fultz: 34.5% AST% 12.8% TOV%
Smith: 37.4% AST% 15.7% TOV%

Ball's playmaking is overrated. UCLA just runs a much more efficient offense than UW and NCst. If Fultz and Smith maintained their AST%/TOV% ratio on UCLA, UCLA's offense would be even better. And I see no reason why their AST%/TOV% ratio would become worse from playing with better teammates. It should improve if anything.

UCLA runs an efficient offense because of Ball. PGs aren't supposed to hog the ball and rack up assists they're supposed to keep the offensive dunning effectively. Last year they had the 116th ranked offense and the year before that the 96th ranked offense. They were slow paced too. Now they're the fastest team in the game with the top ranked offense.

Washington on the other hand is playing worse than usual and no one is going to say Fultz gives 100% effort.

[E-Balla]

And he's pointing out that that word salad means nothing.

"How many of the Top 25 scorers in the NBA are ELITE passers and can't score?"

Do you not get that this sentence makes no sense?

I think people are arguing that Ball is a transcendental passer like Nash or Stockton. Their scoring is respectable but not dominant.

The people arguing that are box score analysts.

Ball: 31.7% AST% 18.4% TOV%
Fultz: 34.5% AST% 12.8% TOV%
Smith: 37.4% AST% 15.7% TOV%

Ball's playmaking is overrated. UCLA just runs a much more efficient offense than UW and NCst. If Fultz and Smith maintained their AST%/TOV% ratio on UCLA, UCLA's offense would be even better. And I see no reason why their AST%/TOV% ratio would become worse from playing with better teammates. It should improve if anything.

UCLA runs an efficient offense because of Ball. PGs aren't supposed to hog the ball and rack up assists they're supposed to keep the offensive dunning effectively. Last year they had the 116th ranked offense and the year before that the 96th ranked offense. They were slow paced too. Now they're the fastest team in the game with the top ranked offense.

Washington on the other hand is playing worse than usual and no one is going to say Fultz gives 100% effort.

[reanimator]

Mind you he has a absurd assist rate with abysmal teammates.

Well, those two go hand in hand to some extent. Fultz is their entire offense and the players around him are mostly finishers. Poor finishers, but finishers as they cannot create by themselves. So you would expect a high assist rate mainly because nobody else on that team is worth much.

High assist rate as a term doesn't tell us much. Would I expect an assist rate in the high teens-lower 20s? Sure, but I assure you an assist rate in the mid 30s is beyond the product of being the entire offense, especially when you couple that with his incredibly low turnover rate.

Agree with the reasons why Ball's scoring is mostly assisted but that doesn't change the fact there isn't a huge efficiency gap given that luxury.

[reanimator]

Washington on the other hand is playing worse than usual and no one is going to say Fultz gives 100% effort.

This is the most efficient Washington offense since the 09-10 season...a team with multiple pros.