Cameron Reddish

[Stillwater]

As low as his floor is right now, it is still reasonable to think he could although shouldn't get drafted in the lottery at least not before 9 or after based on early projections dismissing his college failures banking on potential in their system .
Depends on the valuation of other players available , and overall I can count 8-10 wings with a better NBA resume along with 20 more at different positions.
He really is a difficult projection now, as it is almost ironically likely some dumb GM takes him way too soon...even though they have no business doing it.

[King Ken]

As low as his floor is right now, it is still reasonable to think he could although shouldn't get drafted in the lottery at least not before 9 or after based on early projections dismissing his college failures banking on potential in their system .
Depends on the valuation of other players available , and overall I can count 8-10 wings with a better NBA resume along with 20 more at different positions.
He really is a difficult projection now, as it is almost ironically likely some dumb GM takes him way too soon...even though they have no business doing it.

His floor isn't that low. A GM taking him being dumb or not is largely dependent on their team, personnel, and system. Cleveland takes him, then yes it was dumb as ****.

[Stillwater]

As low as his floor is right now, it is still reasonable to think he could although shouldn't get drafted in the lottery at least not before 9 or after based on early projections dismissing his college failures banking on potential in their system .
Depends on the valuation of other players available , and overall I can count 8-10 wings with a better NBA resume along with 20 more at different positions.
He really is a difficult projection now, as it is almost ironically likely some dumb GM takes him way too soon...even though they have no business doing it.

His floor isn't that low.

His floor to me is what he already is: a inconsistent streaky outside catch and shoot wing with length to defend but doesn't know how to use his length effectively nearly enough. Also he is a player with tools to create for himself but cannot finish at the basket always just trying to get fouled and cant finish through contact at all so having creation ability is washed out as an asset.
He is by all accounts the most overrated 5 star prospect in this draft

[King Ken]

As low as his floor is right now, it is still reasonable to think he could although shouldn't get drafted in the lottery at least not before 9 or after based on early projections dismissing his college failures banking on potential in their system .
Depends on the valuation of other players available , and overall I can count 8-10 wings with a better NBA resume along with 20 more at different positions.
He really is a difficult projection now, as it is almost ironically likely some dumb GM takes him way too soon...even though they have no business doing it.

His floor isn't that low.

His floor to me is what he already is: a inconsistent streaky outside catch and shoot wing with length to defend but doesn't know how to use his length effectively nearly enough. Also he is a player with tools to create for himself but cannot finish at the basket always just trying to get fouled and cant finish through contact at all so having creation ability is washed out as an asset.
He is by all accounts the most overrated 5 star prospect in this draft

More of a rhythm shooter than a streaky shooter but like others rhythm shooters, when his microwave is on, he can't miss.


He started to play sound defense and plays the ball well and as the season went on, you seen more sound defense and less of him getting out of position to get a steal off the ball.

I agree with the creation and the finishing issue or just dealing with traffic altogether.

[Stillwater]

His floor isn't that low.

His floor to me is what he already is: a inconsistent streaky outside catch and shoot wing with length to defend but doesn't know how to use his length effectively nearly enough. Also he is a player with tools to create for himself but cannot finish at the basket always just trying to get fouled and cant finish through contact at all so having creation ability is washed out as an asset.
He is by all accounts the most overrated 5 star prospect in this draft

More of a rhythm shooter than a streaky shooter but like others rhythm shooters, when his microwave is on, he can't miss.


He started to play sound defense and plays the ball well and as the season went on, you seen more sound defense and less of him getting out of position to get a steal off the ball.

I agree with the creation and the finishing issue or just dealing with traffic altogether.

If he's a rhythm shooter I suppose you think thats his teammates fault he rarely got into a rhythym , but I can't see it.
He had so many ops to get into rhythm and failed,I call that streaky when you have only a couple good shooting halfs in the season
and the rest of the time it's hot and cold throughout each game.
Whatever the case may be, his shooting abilty is his biggest asset going forward. I don't agree he improved much defensively, but did get it pounded into his head to stop doing things defensively in help situations getting into foul trouble, that doesn't make him a good defender just less of a dumb one. I hated his drives to the basket and cringed every time he tried to dribble drive. It's sad because you can see the handle isn't bad for a wing,but the vision and decision making is on par with a newcomer to the game,not somebody who was so highly touted.
I equate his draft outlook as being worse outcome than Shabazz Muhammads free fall to #14 from #1 considerations before his season at UCLA..
I wouldn't be shocked if he falls to 10 or later pretty easily.

[King Ken]

His floor to me is what he already is: a inconsistent streaky outside catch and shoot wing with length to defend but doesn't know how to use his length effectively nearly enough. Also he is a player with tools to create for himself but cannot finish at the basket always just trying to get fouled and cant finish through contact at all so having creation ability is washed out as an asset.
He is by all accounts the most overrated 5 star prospect in this draft

More of a rhythm shooter than a streaky shooter but like others rhythm shooters, when his microwave is on, he can't miss.


He started to play sound defense and plays the ball well and as the season went on, you seen more sound defense and less of him getting out of position to get a steal off the ball.

I agree with the creation and the finishing issue or just dealing with traffic altogether.

If he's a rhythm shooter I suppose you think thats his teammates fault he rarely got into a rhythym , but I can't see it.
He had so many ops to get into rhythm and failed,I call that streaky when you have only a couple good shooting halfs in the season
and the rest of the time it's hot and cold throughout each game.
Whatever the case may be, his shooting abilty is his biggest asset going forward. I don't agree he improved much defensively, but did get it pounded into his head to stop doing things defensively in help situations getting into foul trouble, that doesn't make him a good defender just less of a dumb one. I hated his drives to the basket and cringed every time he tried to dribble drive. It's sad because you can see the handle isn't bad for a wing,but the vision and decision making is on par with a newcomer to the game,not somebody who was so highly touted.
I equate his draft outlook as being worse outcome than Shabazz Muhammads free fall to #14 from #1 considerations before his season at UCLA..
I wouldn't be shocked if he falls to 10 or later pretty easily.

I really disagree with a lot of what you said and maybe I agree with one or two statements. I am just going to agree to disagree on this one. I don't think it's worth my time at this point.

[Stillwater]

More of a rhythm shooter than a streaky shooter but like others rhythm shooters, when his microwave is on, he can't miss.


He started to play sound defense and plays the ball well and as the season went on, you seen more sound defense and less of him getting out of position to get a steal off the ball.

I agree with the creation and the finishing issue or just dealing with traffic altogether.

If he's a rhythm shooter I suppose you think thats his teammates fault he rarely got into a rhythym , but I can't see it.
He had so many ops to get into rhythm and failed,I call that streaky when you have only a couple good shooting halfs in the season
and the rest of the time it's hot and cold throughout each game.
Whatever the case may be, his shooting abilty is his biggest asset going forward. I don't agree he improved much defensively, but did get it pounded into his head to stop doing things defensively in help situations getting into foul trouble, that doesn't make him a good defender just less of a dumb one. I hated his drives to the basket and cringed every time he tried to dribble drive. It's sad because you can see the handle isn't bad for a wing,but the vision and decision making is on par with a newcomer to the game,not somebody who was so highly touted.
I equate his draft outlook as being worse outcome than Shabazz Muhammads free fall to #14 from #1 considerations before his season at UCLA..
I wouldn't be shocked if he falls to 10 or later pretty easily.

I really disagree with a lot of what you said and maybe I agree with one or two statements. I am just going to agree to disagree on this one. I don't think it's worth my time at this point.

Yep you are beating a dead horse with me regarding this kid.
There is still a lot of promise and things to feel confident about in taking him in soon after the lottery,and maybe in this draft he still goes in the lottery but none of those things are solid enough projections for a lottery prospect especially the failure to finish rendering him to being a cutter and outside shooter who needs improvement in those areas as well. As a defender I could buy in that he will be at least good at the next level,because he mirrors well on the perimeter but overall needs a lot of development there as well.

[SmoothLefty21]

As low as his floor is right now, it is still reasonable to think he could although shouldn't get drafted in the lottery at least not before 9 or after based on early projections dismissing his college failures banking on potential in their system .
Depends on the valuation of other players available , and overall I can count 8-10 wings with a better NBA resume along with 20 more at different positions.
He really is a difficult projection now, as it is almost ironically likely some dumb GM takes him way too soon...even though they have no business doing it.

His floor isn't that low. A GM taking him being dumb or not is largely dependent on their team, personnel, and system. Cleveland takes him, then yes it was dumb as ****.

I don't see how one can say his floor isn't low. His floor is busting out of the league. On top of currently not being able to shoot, pass, dribble, or rebound well, he isn't an explosive athlete.

I think a realistic ceiling for him is Trevor Ariza. The floor for him is Europe.

[King Ken]

As low as his floor is right now, it is still reasonable to think he could although shouldn't get drafted in the lottery at least not before 9 or after based on early projections dismissing his college failures banking on potential in their system .
Depends on the valuation of other players available , and overall I can count 8-10 wings with a better NBA resume along with 20 more at different positions.
He really is a difficult projection now, as it is almost ironically likely some dumb GM takes him way too soon...even though they have no business doing it.

His floor isn't that low. A GM taking him being dumb or not is largely dependent on their team, personnel, and system. Cleveland takes him, then yes it was dumb as ****.

I don't see how one can say his floor isn't low. His floor is busting out of the league. On top of currently not being able to shoot, pass, dribble, or rebound well, he isn't an explosive athlete.

I think a realistic ceiling for him is Trevor Ariza. The floor for him is Europe.

Key word, you think. I think he has tremendous potential but he is a system player. He needs to be in a system that lowers his weaknesses and pushes his strengths.

[SmoothLefty21]

And what kind of system is that?

[King Ken]

And what kind of system is that?

Atlanta
Houston
GS
Sacramento

Uptempo system where you play a role within and they believe in Morey ball. Open 3 and dunks, nothing else matters and they have elite creators for others. Any system where Cam gotta create or he is expected to do a lot within the offense is asking for failure.

[Stillwater]

And what kind of system is that?

Exactly I mean anybody can say This player or that player would thrive in a perfect situation
Cameron Reddish is more likely to fail at this point than succeed and even if he does land in the perfect situation for him to mask his deficiencies it doesn't mean his low incentive to improve his game or his inability to explode to the rim is going to suddenly become an option. He's at best a cutter and potentially a decent outside shooter in time with a decent ability to create off the dribble but can't finish making the latter skill worthless along with avg defensive tools at best but great length and head height making him seem like a high caliber defensive prospect when in truth he isn't because he has no motor to improve.
Anyone constantly making claims he will be better in the nba when he had every opportunity in the world at Duke (with 2 high caliber teammates drawing double teams in every game) to maximize his catch and shoot skill which was proven to be not a skill considered an asset at all going into the league has bust written all over him.

[ProfitQ]

And what kind of system is that?

Atlanta
Houston
GS
Sacramento

Uptempo system where you play a role within and they believe in Morey ball. Open 3 and dunks, nothing else matters and they have elite creators for others. Any system where Cam gotta create or he is expected to do a lot within the offense is asking for failure.

So why would you draft him as a spot-up shooter when there are a plethora of more accurate snipers in this draft?

[clyde21]

And what kind of system is that?

Atlanta
Houston
GS
Sacramento

Uptempo system where you play a role within and they believe in Morey ball. Open 3 and dunks, nothing else matters and they have elite creators for others. Any system where Cam gotta create or he is expected to do a lot within the offense is asking for failure.

in that case you might as well just take a Chuma Okeke in the late first/second. You don't take a player like that in the top 5 or even 10 if that's what you think his potential is.

also...GS and Houston run two completely different systems.

[King Ken]

And what kind of system is that?

Atlanta
Houston
GS
Sacramento

Uptempo system where you play a role within and they believe in Morey ball. Open 3 and dunks, nothing else matters and they have elite creators for others. Any system where Cam gotta create or he is expected to do a lot within the offense is asking for failure.

So why would you draft him as a spot-up shooter when there are a plethora of more accurate snipers in this draft?

He wouldn't be taken as a sniper. He would be taken due to volume three point shooting which for 3/4 of the season he was listed as elite in terms of projected 3pt shooting, steals where he was listed as elite for 3/4 of the season, his PnR playmaking which was in the top percentile in college, his defensive abilities and talent and more importantly his body, measurables, length, fluidity and translatable skills to the NBA

No one is taking him to be a bigger Landry Shamet

[No-Man]

Reddish PnR playmaking is absolutely not in the top percentile in college lol

[Nazrmohamed]

And what kind of system is that?

Atlanta
Houston
GS
Sacramento

Uptempo system where you play a role within and they believe in Morey ball. Open 3 and dunks, nothing else matters and they have elite creators for others. Any system where Cam gotta create or he is expected to do a lot within the offense is asking for failure.

Hey it's me from the Culver thread. Believe it or not I'm actually gonna disagree with you while seemingly giving your boy some props. Reddish should be able to create pretty well. Hes got the tools. I think from a tool perspective he was stifled a bit at Duke with the other two there. Were talking about the best American prospect going into college with a myriad of high potential skills.

So why would I not put him above Culver then? Because at some point you gotta be able to perform at whatever level you're placed in. Put it this way. There are more things and variety of things that Reddish can perform. Culver has less of those things but seemingly knows what those strengths and limitations are and can perform...if that makes sense. Reddish could be that player but it's obvious its gonna take time and in the perfect world hed go back to Duke and next year assert himself as the alpha he was supposed to be while of course gaining that experience.

So I do think he still has loads of potential. I just dont wanna be the team betting on him fulfilling it. And as I said to you before, if I'm Atlanta I take Culvers lower but more probable realized potential and simply adding that to my core of solid players. You said "we already have Bazenmore". Cmon, you could trade Bazenmore for probably a late first rounder and reclamation project and get more value out of Culver and the late 1st rounder.

Reddish makes more sense for that team picking 8-11 where they missed out on the top tier prospects so what's the risk taking a chance on a high potential project. Not 4 or 5 where you could just grab Culver and Hunter back to back in a league where you cant have two many d3 wings surrounding Young.

[Ayt]

I wouldn't use a 1st rounder on him.

[Fat]

At the very least he is a nice size wing that can be a 3D player. But imo his upside is much higher than that.

If you trust you can bring out his potential he is absolutely worth taking the chance. He needs a team that can truly focus on developing him though

[King Ken]

And what kind of system is that?

Atlanta
Houston
GS
Sacramento

Uptempo system where you play a role within and they believe in Morey ball. Open 3 and dunks, nothing else matters and they have elite creators for others. Any system where Cam gotta create or he is expected to do a lot within the offense is asking for failure.

Hey it's me from the Culver thread. Believe it or not I'm actually gonna disagree with you while seemingly giving your boy some props. Reddish should be able to create pretty well. Hes got the tools. I think from a tool perspective he was stifled a bit at Duke with the other two there. Were talking about the best American prospect going into college with a myriad of high potential skills.

So why would I not put him above Culver then? Because at some point you gotta be able to perform at whatever level you're placed in. Put it this way. There are more things and variety of things that Reddish can perform. Culver has less of those things but seemingly knows what those strengths and limitations are and can perform...if that makes sense. Reddish could be that player but it's obvious its gonna take time and in the perfect world hed go back to Duke and next year assert himself as the alpha he was supposed to be while of course gaining that experience.

So I do think he still has loads of potential. I just dont wanna be the team betting on him fulfilling it. And as I said to you before, if I'm Atlanta I take Culvers lower but more probable realized potential and simply adding that to my core of solid players. You said "we already have Bazenmore". Cmon, you could trade Bazenmore for probably a late first rounder and reclamation project and get more value out of Culver and the late 1st rounder.

Reddish makes more sense for that team picking 8-11 where they missed out on the top tier prospects so what's the risk taking a chance on a high potential project. Not 4 or 5 where you could just grab Culver and Hunter back to back in a league where you cant have two many d3 wings surrounding Young.

While I don't agree at all with your Culver take, I want to say this was an excellent post in general. On this sub, there isn't many good posts, that said, there isn't many bad posts either which is the blessing and the curse. This is a good one. As for addressing your post:

Hey it's me from the Culver thread. Believe it or not I'm actually gonna disagree with you while seemingly giving your boy some props. Reddish should be able to create pretty well. Hes got the tools. I think from a tool perspective he was stifled a bit at Duke with the other two there. Were talking about the best American prospect going into college with a myriad of high potential skills.

He does have a lot of tools, that's unquestionable. I am not sold on his polish as I am with others but he has a lot of system qualities which could appeal to some teams. As a general evaluator, I understand that doesn't appeal to everyone. Kenneth Faried doesn't appeal to everyone. For two teams, he wasn't the rotation while for Houston, he is Team USA Faried. For a player like Reddish who is a sub .400 FG shooter, that's critical as his bust potential is MUCH higher than the norm. I also agree, Duke as we stood just wasn't the ideal fit but it happens all of the time. Players don't understand fit till they don't fit. I wish I could have replied earlier but Sat is a family outing day.

So why would I not put him above Culver then? Because at some point you gotta be able to perform at whatever level you're placed in. Put it this way. There are more things and variety of things that Reddish can perform. Culver has less of those things but seemingly knows what those strengths and limitations are and can perform...if that makes sense. Reddish could be that player but it's obvious its gonna take time and in the perfect world hed go back to Duke and next year assert himself as the alpha he was supposed to be while of course gaining that experience.

For a number of teams, I think Culver is a better fit and a better player than Reddish. That said, I am still down on Culver if the position is NOT PG in some form or fashion. You are drafting a role player who I feel isn't a starting caliber player and maybe never will be depending how you use him. He just doesn't translate and I strongly feel that he will need time. That's the difference between him who is a top 3-5 college hooper and Donovan Mitchell who was a top 25 college hooper but someone who was neck in neck for ROY and is a baller. You have to translate to the NBA.

Culver has a lot of issues that aren't exposed in college but easily will be in the NBA. I wouldn't touch him in the top 10 unless I think he's a PG and even then, would I take him over White, Morant, or Garland when you consider Culver will need some time? When Boston had the #3 pick, they could have drafted Kris Dunn who was a top 5 college hooper but went with an average college player instead in Jaylen Brown because in their system, they felt they would get more out of Brown and he is just the more talented player with the better NBA body and skill-set. We are just 3 years in, it's clear Brown was the much better choice even if Dunn was superior in every way in college. Why? Because the NBA is completely different than college. What you need is just different and what you can do could be limited if you lack the required NBA skills.

So I do think he still has loads of potential. I just dont wanna be the team betting on him fulfilling it. And as I said to you before, if I'm Atlanta I take Culvers lower but more probable realized potential and simply adding that to my core of solid players. You said "we already have Bazenmore". Cmon, you could trade Bazenmore for probably a late first rounder and reclamation project and get more value out of Culver and the late 1st rounder.

I rather be the team betting on him fulfilling it if he fits what we do. Then again, I wouldn't do the age old, draft the most talented player on the board but doesn't fit and just waste the kid's potential and he becomes a waste for you. That's for anyone. Phoenix has proven it year after year with busts. All are very talented. All of them but three of them have been busts and one couldn't be a bust, he was too NBA ready in Mikal Bridges. Why? Because fit matters.

That's why I am glad you aren't Atlanta. Culver isn't in the NBA yet. His value is based off of his college impact. Once he is in the league, if he got to Bazemore's peak level sooner than later, I'll be surprised regardless of where he lands. I personally think he's two-three years away. I feel like Reddish in our system would make an impact in year 1. I can't promise that for others but for the Hawks, yes I can. That said, only Culver can write his story as well as Reddish. Everything we say is based on what we already see, not on anything we know. Neither are in the NBA. So we really don't know but we are talking about what we see right now and the data from their college and HS is all we know.