Alperen Şengün

[Hal14]

My take, guys only don't get measures if they are going to actually measure with less than the #'s that are put out there in the public sphere. Almost all the "tall tale" guys that have some outrageous and unbelievable height/wingspan/vertical combination from overseas always skip getting publicly measured at the draft camps in the US.

And then they mysteriously grow over the summer as well.

If anything Sengun’s like the opposite of that. Just a well-put-together 6’10-ish (in shoes) guy with sort of broad shoulders but generally very typical proportions. I don’t think there’s any mystery there.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sengun ends up measuring to be 6'9" and Giddey 6'7"..

The other guy who appears on film to be shorter than listed height is James Robinson-Earl - guessing he's actually 6'8" instead of 6'9"..

[Charm]

My take, guys only don't get measures if they are going to actually measure with less than the #'s that are put out there in the public sphere. Almost all the "tall tale" guys that have some outrageous and unbelievable height/wingspan/vertical combination from overseas always skip getting publicly measured at the draft camps in the US.

And then they mysteriously grow over the summer as well.

If anything Sengun’s like the opposite of that. Just a well-put-together 6’10-ish (in shoes) guy with sort of broad shoulders but generally very typical proportions. I don’t think there’s any mystery there.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sengun ends up measuring to be 6'9" and Giddey 6'7"..

The other guy who appears on film to be shorter than listed height is James Robinson-Earl - guessing he's actually 6'8" instead of 6'9"..

Sengun 6'9" in socks? Yeah, I agree. 6'9" in shoes? There's just no way. There's tons of film of him playing against guys with NBA combine measurements, so there's really not much room for doubt. Here you'll see #7 Sam Dekker on the opposing team, who measured 6'7.75" in socks, 6'9.0" in shoes. Sengun is pretty clearly taller than him (e.g. 0:54 where they're fighting for position on the block).

Watch on YouTube

As for Giddey, it's already said that he expects to measure 6'8" in socks, and I don't know know why he'd put that word out there if it wasn't true. He's still growing, so likely to end up around the same height as Sengun, 6'10" in shoes.

[Mirotic12]

As has already been explained in this thread, Turkish players are always listed by their barefoot heights. American players in Europe can be listed by barefoot heights, if they allow it, or by their in shoes height from NCAA, G-League, or old NBA listings, because they and their agents don't want their heights lowered.

The vast majority of European players are listed by barefoot heights. The Turkish players are always listed by barefoot heights. It's only an American thing, where the players got listed by shoes. It was never that way in other leagues.

My take, guys only don't get measures if they are going to actually measure with less than the #'s that are put out there in the public sphere. Almost all the "tall tale" guys that have some outrageous and unbelievable height/wingspan/vertical combination from overseas always skip getting publicly measured at the draft camps in the US.

And then they mysteriously grow over the summer as well.

European players don't have to get measured in the US. They have official measurements by the NBA in Europe every year. The NBA just goes to Europe to do it. The only time it didn't happen was last year, because of the pandemic. If a European player wasn't measured in USA, they are measured in Europe, and they are official measurements, done by NBA personnel.

They have been doing that since something like 2003.

Also remember that even under the new NBA rules, where players are supposedly listed by barefoot heights, the NBA rounds up from every half inch. So for example, 6-9 1/2 = 6-10 barefoot in the NBA.

[Charm]

I mean, if Sengun is really 6'11" in shoes, with a strong lower body, decent length, among the Turkish league leaders in rebounds and blocks...these conversations about him being undersized at center start to sound a bit silly.

[Mirotic12]

For months in the draft threads, we had arguments here that Poku looked small and undersized, that there was no way he was as tall as his listed height, that he was at most 6-9 or 6-10, etc. And many claims that as soon as he was measured, he would be no taller than 6-9 or 6-10..........

Then he was measured at 7-0 barefoot and 7-1 in shoes, and we never heard anything again about how he was undersized, looked small on video, was shorter than his listings......

This same thing has happened here in these forums with many European draft prospects. Many of them are said to be "smaller than advertised". It's just something that gets claimed here, even if it isn't true.

You can go back and see it in numerous draft threads about European players.

The same issue also over and over again comes up in these forums about the in shoes height and the barefoot height. Where very few NBA fans seem to be aware that by far most European players are listed by their barefoot heights. So that a player listed at 6-8 in Europe, would come to the NBA and often times be listed at even 6-10. But because they were listed at 6-8 in Europe, they were "undersized".

[EvanZ]

What is the case for Sengun being that much better than Saric?

[EvanZ]

I mean, if Sengun is really 6'11" in shoes, with a strong lower body, decent length, among the Turkish league leaders in rebounds and blocks...these conversations about him being undersized at center start to sound a bit silly.

His wingspan and reach aren't great even if he's 6'11". Is Sabonis a center?

[Charm]

I mean, if Sengun is really 6'11" in shoes, with a strong lower body, decent length, among the Turkish league leaders in rebounds and blocks...these conversations about him being undersized at center start to sound a bit silly.

His wingspan and reach aren't great even if he's 6'11". Is Sabonis a center?

What are his wingspan and reach? I don't understand this underground theory that he has really short arms or whatever. Where did it come from?

Sengun's defense gets criticized a lot, but I'm gonna re-emphasize that he actually led his entire league in steal+block rate. In terms of raw playmaking ability on the defensive end (and on the offensive end as an above-the-rim threat and transition dunker) he's on a completely different level than guys like Sabonis and Saric. Even if you ignore his skill advantages (arguably better at every aspect of the game offensively at the same age), his physical advantages give him a much more interesting ceiling.

[Mirotic12]

What are his wingspan and reach? I don't understand this underground theory that he has really short arms or whatever. Where did it come from?

Sengun's defense gets criticized a lot, but I'm gonna re-emphasize that he actually led his entire league in steal+block rate. In terms of raw playmaking ability on the defensive end (and on the offensive end as an above-the-rim threat and transition dunker) he's on a completely different level than guys like Sabonis and Saric. Even if you ignore his skill advantages (arguably better at every aspect of the game offensively at the same age), his physical advantages give him a much more interesting ceiling.

His wingspan is listed at either 7-0 or 7-0 1/4.

[Charm]

What are his wingspan and reach? I don't understand this underground theory that he has really short arms or whatever. Where did it come from?

Sengun's defense gets criticized a lot, but I'm gonna re-emphasize that he actually led his entire league in steal+block rate. In terms of raw playmaking ability on the defensive end (and on the offensive end as an above-the-rim threat and transition dunker) he's on a completely different level than guys like Sabonis and Saric. Even if you ignore his skill advantages (arguably better at every aspect of the game offensively at the same age), his physical advantages give him a much more interesting ceiling.

His wingspan is listed at either 7-0 or 7-0 1/4.

How recent is that, though? He’s grown a lot since FIBA u18 when he looked to be the same height as Garuba.

[EvanZ]

What are his wingspan and reach? I don't understand this underground theory that he has really short arms or whatever. Where did it come from?

Sengun's defense gets criticized a lot, but I'm gonna re-emphasize that he actually led his entire league in steal+block rate. In terms of raw playmaking ability on the defensive end (and on the offensive end as an above-the-rim threat and transition dunker) he's on a completely different level than guys like Sabonis and Saric. Even if you ignore his skill advantages (arguably better at every aspect of the game offensively at the same age), his physical advantages give him a much more interesting ceiling.

His wingspan is listed at either 7-0 or 7-0 1/4.

How recent is that, though? He’s grown a lot since FIBA u18 when he looked to be the same height as Garuba.

He doesn't have a great wingspan man. It is what it is.

[Charm]

His wingspan is listed at either 7-0 or 7-0 1/4.

How recent is that, though? He’s grown a lot since FIBA u18 when he looked to be the same height as Garuba.

He doesn't have a great wingspan man. It is what it is.

Didn't say he has a "great" wingspan; probably just a very typical +3-ish wingspan. Which is why I'm confused as to why his measurements are subject to such scrutiny. Like...he just looks like a very normally proportioned center as far as I can tell, and I'm baffled that some people are so adamant that there's something wrong with him physically.

[EvanZ]

How recent is that, though? He’s grown a lot since FIBA u18 when he looked to be the same height as Garuba.

He doesn't have a great wingspan man. It is what it is.

Didn't say he has a "great" wingspan; probably just a very typical +3-ish wingspan. Which is why I'm confused as to why his measurements are subject to such scrutiny. Like...he just looks like a very normally proportioned center as far as I can tell, and I'm baffled that some people are so adamant that there's something wrong with him physically.

A "normal" quality NBA center has like a 9'3" standing reach and 7'3"+ ws. Sengun is not that. Like I said, he's similar measurements to Sabonis and ain't nobody calling Sabonis a center.

Sengun is extremely power forward-sized. That's just how it is.

[Charm]

He doesn't have a great wingspan man. It is what it is.

Didn't say he has a "great" wingspan; probably just a very typical +3-ish wingspan. Which is why I'm confused as to why his measurements are subject to such scrutiny. Like...he just looks like a very normally proportioned center as far as I can tell, and I'm baffled that some people are so adamant that there's something wrong with him physically.

A "normal" quality NBA center has like a 9'3" standing reach and 7'3"+ ws. Sengun is not that. Like I said, he's similar measurements to Sabonis and ain't nobody calling Sabonis a center.

Sengun is extremely power forward-sized. That's just how it is.

How many "normal" centers are there in this draft, then? Queta and Hukporti I guess?

Clearly the true 7'+ 250lb guys still exist, and still succeed in the modern NBA, but not all or even most centers these days fit that description.

I encourage you to watch his game-saving chasedown block from the playoffs a few weeks ago. Does this look like Dario Saric to you?

EDIT: skip to 5:50

Watch on YouTube

[EvanZ]

Kinda yeah. I mean when he was 18, Saric was more athletic obviously. A lot of guys can look athletic in a couple highlights. Here's Ekpe Udoh looking like an All-Star for two plays his rookie season.

Watch on YouTube

[Charm]

Kinda yeah. I mean when he was 18, Saric was more athletic obviously. A lot of guys can look athletic in a couple highlights. Here's Ekpe Udoh looking like an All-Star for two plays his rookie season.

Watch on YouTube

If you think it’s just “a couple highlights” feel free to watch literally any film of Sengun from any of his games this season. I don’t think any prospect this year made plays above the rim as often as him.

[Mirotic12]

A "normal" quality NBA center has like a 9'3" standing reach and 7'3"+ ws. Sengun is not that. Like I said, he's similar measurements to Sabonis and ain't nobody calling Sabonis a center.

Sengun is extremely power forward-sized. That's just how it is.

Maybe that was true in the past. But there are a lot of smaller guys playing center now in the NBA. It's well past the days when a 6-10 was undersized for the center position. Hell, you see 6-8 guys (or even smaller) playing center in the NBA plenty. The concept of Sengun being undersized for the NBA, is only if we go back like 5 to 6 years in time.

The way the game is looked at changed. He's not undersized for the center position, in the current NBA.

[EvanZ]

Who are these smaller centers people keep talking about? Jokic, Embiid, Gobert, AD, Lopez, Nurkic...it's like people aren't actually watching the games.

Sengun is not going to be a starting center. Just stop it.

I think the same people saying Sengun is a center thought Marvin Bagley is a center. Nope.

[babyjax13]

Who are these smaller centers people keep talking about? Jokic, Embiid, Gobert, AD, Lopez, Nurkic...it's like people aren't actually watching the games.

Sengun is not going to be a starting center. Just stop it.

I think the same people saying Sengun is a center thought Marvin Bagley is a center. Nope.

Sengun is highly skilled and he is similar in size to:
Richaun Holmes (6-9; 7-1.5; 242)
Mason Plumlee (6-11; 6-11; 238)
Cody Zeller (6-10.75; 6-10.75; 230)
Bam Adebayo (6-8.75; 7-2.75; 242)
Zach Collins (6-10.25; 7-1; 232)
Nic Claxton (6-10; 7-2.5; 217)
Domantas Sabonis (6-11; 6-11; 240)

Some of those guys are very low end starting centers, and some of them are high-end starting centers. The things separating them are skill and athletecism. Sengun is highly, highly skilled, and he does not look unathletic. Plus, if he grows a bit, he could easily be bigger than these guys.

[Charm]

Who are these smaller centers people keep talking about? Jokic, Embiid, Gobert, AD, Lopez, Nurkic...it's like people aren't actually watching the games.

Sengun is not going to be a starting center. Just stop it.

I think the same people saying Sengun is a center thought Marvin Bagley is a center. Nope.

Strange hill to die on, but suit yourself.