Ace Bailey

[HadAnEffectHere]

I mean, the "haters" can probably also point to that he just wasn't good in college because good college players can probably win basketball games as a distant second best player to the actual star on the team.

[Snotbubbles]

If the Sixers are keeping Paul George and trying to compete, given their current cap space, before they match whatever offer Grimes will surely get, and the likely FA losses, they need bodies bad. I wonder if they'll entertain moving back so they can pick up extra picks. Nets have 4 first rounders. The Wizards, Hawks, Jazz, and Magic have 2 first rounders. I think with the roster crunch the Thunder have, with them having 2 first rounders and many future picks I wonder if they'd rather consolidate and take a guy they're really high on instead of trading out for more future picks. They're going to have to pay SGA, Chet and Williams soon and a whole slew of their other guys are potentially going to be too expensive to keep or are FAs. Like, maybe they'd move up for Edgecomb who they feel could replace Dort and not even take Ace in that instance? Or Maluach since Hartenstein could be gone after next season? Whatever the case #3 is where this draft starts as far as excitement goes.

Sixers have just as much depth as half the contenders do.

Maxey
McCain - Grimes
Ace - Oubre
PG- Edwards
Embiid - Drummond- Bona

Maybe Yabusele, plus pick 35. That is 10-11 deep.

Embiid might not return and if he does he's bound to miss a huge chunk of the season. George is always injured too. McCain has already had knee surgery. Grimes is a RFA and they might get outbid. Oubre and Drummond both have low $ player options, are they picking them up? Yabusele is a UFA. This is not good depth.

If Embiid isn't healthy, then the team is sunk anyway, might as well swing for the fences with a potential star at #3 than trade down for bodies.

[FarBeyondDriven]

I mean, the "haters" can probably also point to that he just wasn't good in college because good college players can probably win basketball games as a distant second best player to the actual star on the team.

if anyone should be getting blamed for Rutgers not winning it should be the actual star with the ball in his hands the most

[HadAnEffectHere]

I mean, the "haters" can probably also point to that he just wasn't good in college because good college players can probably win basketball games as a distant second best player to the actual star on the team.

if anyone should be getting blamed for Rutgers not winning it should be the actual star with the ball in his hands the most

Probably not because Harper was actually good and made shots whereas Ace largely did not.

[JMAC3]

I mean, the "haters" can probably also point to that he just wasn't good in college because good college players can probably win basketball games as a distant second best player to the actual star on the team.

if anyone should be getting blamed for Rutgers not winning it should be the actual star with the ball in his hands the most

Probably not because Harper was actually good and made shots whereas Ace largely did not.

Rutgers was DRtg was 109.6 (304th of 364), but hey let's ignore that and blame Ace instead lol

[FarBeyondDriven]

I mean, the "haters" can probably also point to that he just wasn't good in college because good college players can probably win basketball games as a distant second best player to the actual star on the team.

if anyone should be getting blamed for Rutgers not winning it should be the actual star with the ball in his hands the most

Probably not because Harper was actually good and made shots whereas Ace largely did not.

right. Which is why he was such a difference maker they made the tournament...oh wait. Maybe he should have made more shots? Maybe had at least a 2:1 assist to TO ratio? Shot better than 33% from three? Nah, let's blame Ace Bailey

[Telfaire]

I’ve settled in on the perfect comparable for Bailey: Josh Jackson. I thought about Stromile Swift, but he was probably better than Ace coming out of college. Is there a better one?

How about Harrison Barnes in a Trey Murphy-like body?

[Xepa777]

I think Ace goes 3rd to Philly (could then be traded) or he goes 5th to Utah. Small chance he slips to 6 or 7.

I don't think the Jazz will trade Lauri + 5 to move up to 3 and take back Paul George's deal. Lauri is younger, healthier and likes being in Utah.

Agreed. Just speculation, but the Wizards may trade up to get Ace at #3, if they are convinced he has the right upside of course.

George+fodder+#3 for Middleton+Kispert+Bey+#6 could be a framework. Philly gets out of 3-years of George and gets:

1) A replacement in Middleton with just 1 year left.
2) Two wings/forwards in Kispert+Bey to beef up the bench.
3) #6, where they could target Malauch, Queen or Sorber as their center to back up Embiid.

1) Bey sucks
2) There's a HUGE difference between 6 and 3 in star power historically, and if the Wizards are trading up they believe it (otherwise they would stay at 6 if they feel they're all the same tier).
3) Middleton is washed washed. PG just had a very good year one year ago, and PG at his peak is in a different stratosphere as Middleton. If PG isn't healthy then the Sixers are cooked. The Sixers are absolutely cooked no matter what with MIddleton. Makes no sense.

Any deal with Washington involves 18 or a future first. Period.

[FarBeyondDriven]

I understand the negatives surrounding Bailey. He's 100% a chucker. But I just want to remind you that all the great wings are. In fact, it's pretty much a prerequisite for greatness. This is partly why I'm so high on him. You know how people talk about Jabari Smith as being a bust or at least a disappointment? Well, a lot of that is due to the fact that he isn't assertive enough or as much as he was in college. His 11 fga per game is his career high! Well, I'm telling you right now, this will not be an issue for Bailey. He's going to let it rip because he has such confidence in his ability to shoot and make shots even if he's defended. No chance he only puts up 11 shots a game as a starter. Now, he does need to learn to pass out of doubles and look for the open man when defenses collapse when he drives but that's something I'm banking on him being able to learn and if he does he has star upside which is why he's #2 on my board.

[Negrodamus]

I understand the negatives surrounding Bailey. He's 100% a chucker. But I just want to remind you that all the great wings are. In fact, it's pretty much a prerequisite for greatness. This is partly why I'm so high on him. You know how people talk about Jabari Smith as being a bust or at least a disappointment? Well, a lot of that is due to the fact that he isn't assertive enough or as much as he was in college. His 11 fga per game is his career high! Well, I'm telling you right now, this will not be an issue for Bailey. He's going to let it rip because he has such confidence in his ability to shoot and make shots even if he's defended. No chance he only puts up 11 shots a game as a starter. Now, he does need to learn to pass out of doubles and look for the open man when defenses collapse when he drives but that's something I'm banking on him being able to learn and if he does he has star upside which is why he's #2 on my board.

Which superstar were chuckers like Ace coming into the league? And which of them were basically a non-distributor (<10 AST%), non-foul generator (<.300 FTr), and low FT percentage (<70% FT)?

[HadAnEffectHere]

I understand the negatives surrounding Bailey. He's 100% a chucker. But I just want to remind you that all the great wings are. In fact, it's pretty much a prerequisite for greatness. This is partly why I'm so high on him. You know how people talk about Jabari Smith as being a bust or at least a disappointment? Well, a lot of that is due to the fact that he isn't assertive enough or as much as he was in college. His 11 fga per game is his career high! Well, I'm telling you right now, this will not be an issue for Bailey. He's going to let it rip because he has such confidence in his ability to shoot and make shots even if he's defended. No chance he only puts up 11 shots a game as a starter. Now, he does need to learn to pass out of doubles and look for the open man when defenses collapse when he drives but that's something I'm banking on him being able to learn and if he does he has star upside which is why he's #2 on my board.

I mean, there's a difference between "takes a lot of shots" and "is just a stupid guy."

Kuminga and Mathurin can't play in the NBA in the playoffs because they're the later.

[tmorgan]

I understand the negatives surrounding Bailey. He's 100% a chucker. But I just want to remind you that all the great wings are. In fact, it's pretty much a prerequisite for greatness. This is partly why I'm so high on him. You know how people talk about Jabari Smith as being a bust or at least a disappointment? Well, a lot of that is due to the fact that he isn't assertive enough or as much as he was in college. His 11 fga per game is his career high! Well, I'm telling you right now, this will not be an issue for Bailey. He's going to let it rip because he has such confidence in his ability to shoot and make shots even if he's defended. No chance he only puts up 11 shots a game as a starter. Now, he does need to learn to pass out of doubles and look for the open man when defenses collapse when he drives but that's something I'm banking on him being able to learn and if he does he has star upside which is why he's #2 on my board.

I mean, there's a difference between "takes a lot of shots" and "is just a stupid guy."

Kuminga and Mathurin can't play in the NBA in the playoffs because they're the later.

But don’t you think you’re calling Kuminga and Mathurin stupid because of having the exact same traits that Ace has showed at Rutgers?

Not saying Bailey can’t improve. Not even saying Kuminga and Mathurin can’t improve. Just looking for clarification.

[zaz102]

I understand the negatives surrounding Bailey. He's 100% a chucker. But I just want to remind you that all the great wings are. In fact, it's pretty much a prerequisite for greatness. This is partly why I'm so high on him. You know how people talk about Jabari Smith as being a bust or at least a disappointment? Well, a lot of that is due to the fact that he isn't assertive enough or as much as he was in college. His 11 fga per game is his career high! Well, I'm telling you right now, this will not be an issue for Bailey. He's going to let it rip because he has such confidence in his ability to shoot and make shots even if he's defended. No chance he only puts up 11 shots a game as a starter. Now, he does need to learn to pass out of doubles and look for the open man when defenses collapse when he drives but that's something I'm banking on him being able to learn and if he does he has star upside which is why he's #2 on my board.

Which superstar were chuckers like Ace coming into the league? And which of them were basically a non-distributor (<10 AST%), non-foul generator (<.300 FTr), and low FT percentage (<70% FT)?

The closes comp is Tatum. His AST% was 12.4, his FTR was .381, his FT% was .849. Obviously, these numbers are better than Ace's, but close enough that if you were Bailey-ver, that you could buy in if you wanted to (i.e. blame public high school/Rutgers and point to hos FT% of being about .900.

Otherwise, very similar shooting, STOCKs, and rebounding numbers.

[HadAnEffectHere]

I understand the negatives surrounding Bailey. He's 100% a chucker. But I just want to remind you that all the great wings are. In fact, it's pretty much a prerequisite for greatness. This is partly why I'm so high on him. You know how people talk about Jabari Smith as being a bust or at least a disappointment? Well, a lot of that is due to the fact that he isn't assertive enough or as much as he was in college. His 11 fga per game is his career high! Well, I'm telling you right now, this will not be an issue for Bailey. He's going to let it rip because he has such confidence in his ability to shoot and make shots even if he's defended. No chance he only puts up 11 shots a game as a starter. Now, he does need to learn to pass out of doubles and look for the open man when defenses collapse when he drives but that's something I'm banking on him being able to learn and if he does he has star upside which is why he's #2 on my board.

I mean, there's a difference between "takes a lot of shots" and "is just a stupid guy."

Kuminga and Mathurin can't play in the NBA in the playoffs because they're the later.

But don’t you think you’re calling Kuminga and Mathurin stupid because of having the exact same traits that Ace has showed at Rutgers?

Not saying Bailey can’t improve. Not even saying Kuminga and Mathurin can’t improve. Just looking for clarification.

I'm saying there's a difference between being a chucker/liking hero ball and being stupid. Kuminga, Mathurin, and Ace are currently just stupid basketball players. Mathurin and Kuminga are probably not going to grow out of this, while Ace *could*, but it's a significant concern for Ace.

[King Ken]

I like Ace's game a lot more than those two. Ace does flash high BBIQ. Ace to me plays like a Temu McGrady. Not saying he's bad but I'll pay 100 dollars for McGrady, I'll pay 70 for Bailey. As someone said, Jaylen Brown's level is where I see Ace landing. To me, that's good enough but he's not a primary guy and that's fine, in today's NBA #2 are just as valuable.

Ace may not get anywhere near as favorable of a grade as Kuminga received, but that was because I was more loose with grades back then. Ace looks like an All-Star in terms of talent, his on/off is pretty good, and he's a smart kid. I do worry about his personality a bit. I do see what Mathurin and Kuminga have, which is that blind confidence, which is fine if you know exactly what you are. I do think Ace takes too many tough shots, and saying, I work on it is not a good excuse, honestly. It's the shades of his game that remind me of McGrady. He's not as long or as explosive, but he's close and a better shooter at this stage.

[King Ken]

I understand the negatives surrounding Bailey. He's 100% a chucker. But I just want to remind you that all the great wings are. In fact, it's pretty much a prerequisite for greatness. This is partly why I'm so high on him. You know how people talk about Jabari Smith as being a bust or at least a disappointment? Well, a lot of that is due to the fact that he isn't assertive enough or as much as he was in college. His 11 fga per game is his career high! Well, I'm telling you right now, this will not be an issue for Bailey. He's going to let it rip because he has such confidence in his ability to shoot and make shots even if he's defended. No chance he only puts up 11 shots a game as a starter. Now, he does need to learn to pass out of doubles and look for the open man when defenses collapse when he drives but that's something I'm banking on him being able to learn and if he does he has star upside which is why he's #2 on my board.

As someone who watches a lot of tape, Jabari being a bust is one of the more shocking things to me. He really didn't have bust on his tape. Even his comps, he was favorable to. Sometimes, guys just don't translate well, they almost always tend to be bigs.

[Negrodamus]

I understand the negatives surrounding Bailey. He's 100% a chucker. But I just want to remind you that all the great wings are. In fact, it's pretty much a prerequisite for greatness. This is partly why I'm so high on him. You know how people talk about Jabari Smith as being a bust or at least a disappointment? Well, a lot of that is due to the fact that he isn't assertive enough or as much as he was in college. His 11 fga per game is his career high! Well, I'm telling you right now, this will not be an issue for Bailey. He's going to let it rip because he has such confidence in his ability to shoot and make shots even if he's defended. No chance he only puts up 11 shots a game as a starter. Now, he does need to learn to pass out of doubles and look for the open man when defenses collapse when he drives but that's something I'm banking on him being able to learn and if he does he has star upside which is why he's #2 on my board.

Which superstar were chuckers like Ace coming into the league? And which of them were basically a non-distributor (<10 AST%), non-foul generator (<.300 FTr), and low FT percentage (<70% FT)?

The closes comp is Tatum. His AST% was 12.4, his FTR was .381, his FT% was .849. Obviously, these numbers are better than Ace's, but close enough that if you were Bailey-ver, that you could buy in if you wanted to (i.e. blame public high school/Rutgers and point to hos FT% of being about .900.

Otherwise, very similar shooting, STOCKs, and rebounding numbers.

Yea, I just don’t think those are close enough for me. I was a huge Tatum guy but quite down on Bailey. If he hit some of those marker or was just fringe missing them, I’d be forgiving, but he is clearly below each marker.

[King Ken]

Which superstar were chuckers like Ace coming into the league? And which of them were basically a non-distributor (<10 AST%), non-foul generator (<.300 FTr), and low FT percentage (<70% FT)?

The closes comp is Tatum. His AST% was 12.4, his FTR was .381, his FT% was .849. Obviously, these numbers are better than Ace's, but close enough that if you were Bailey-ver, that you could buy in if you wanted to (i.e. blame public high school/Rutgers and point to hos FT% of being about .900.

Otherwise, very similar shooting, STOCKs, and rebounding numbers.

Yea, I just don’t think those are close enough for me. I was a huge Tatum guy but quite down on Bailey. If he hit some of those marker or was just fringe missing them, I’d be forgiving, but he is clearly below each marker.

I wasn't sky high on either one of them but Tatum definitely had a higher floor but metrics wise, they are similar.

Tatum benefitted by going to Boston and playing with Horford.

[Negrodamus]

The closes comp is Tatum. His AST% was 12.4, his FTR was .381, his FT% was .849. Obviously, these numbers are better than Ace's, but close enough that if you were Bailey-ver, that you could buy in if you wanted to (i.e. blame public high school/Rutgers and point to hos FT% of being about .900.

Otherwise, very similar shooting, STOCKs, and rebounding numbers.

Yea, I just don’t think those are close enough for me. I was a huge Tatum guy but quite down on Bailey. If he hit some of those marker or was just fringe missing them, I’d be forgiving, but he is clearly below each marker.

I wasn't sky high on either one of them but Tatum definitely had a higher floor but metrics wise, they are similar.

Tatum benefitted by going to Boston and playing with Horford.

I would take Tatum’s metrics a billion times over Aces. Particularly anything regarding going to the rim.

[zaz102]

Which superstar were chuckers like Ace coming into the league? And which of them were basically a non-distributor (<10 AST%), non-foul generator (<.300 FTr), and low FT percentage (<70% FT)?

The closes comp is Tatum. His AST% was 12.4, his FTR was .381, his FT% was .849. Obviously, these numbers are better than Ace's, but close enough that if you were Bailey-ver, that you could buy in if you wanted to (i.e. blame public high school/Rutgers and point to hos FT% of being about .900.

Otherwise, very similar shooting, STOCKs, and rebounding numbers.

Yea, I just don’t think those are close enough for me. I was a huge Tatum guy but quite down on Bailey. If he hit some of those marker or was just fringe missing them, I’d be forgiving, but he is clearly below each marker.

The other side of the coin is who at 3 do you feel more strongly about or who is willing to trade something that makes a trade back/out worth it.