Luka Doncic Part III

Draft talk all year round

Moderators: Marcus, Duke4life831

Archx
RealGM
Posts: 10,333
And1: 8,231
Joined: Feb 09, 2018
 

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3221 » by Archx » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:50 pm

J_T wrote:
Archx wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
One of the best NCAA coaches analyzed game film of Doncic and he said something like (paraphrasing): "Doncic is vastly superior and way better right now than Lonzo Ball is, not just when Lonzo was in college, but Lonzo right now. He's basically much better than Lonzo currently is at all aspects of basketball."

So I think you need to raise your expectations....you are seriously underrating the level Doncic is at.


I don't agree with that. Lonzo is a good defender and also a good playmaker with great vision. His major problem is shooting and being able to stay healthy. If he can improve his shot he could easily become 20-7-7 guy. Also Lonzo is quite fast and athletic.

Luka has a lot of training ahead of him in order to achieve a decent NBA speed and quickness. I rather have lower expectations than being disappointed later on. Also i am realistic not like other people who already crowned him as the next HOF or a superstar lol...Thats just silly...

I think that you are too scared of being labeled as a Euro homer or Slovenian homer. Also having lower expectation just for the sake of not being disappointed is hardly a valid reason to have those lower expectations. I want to have realistic expectations and I am not afraid to be disappointed.

There is no way that Doncic is not better than Lonzo Ball is right now. I think that's a reasonable opinion to have.


Heh nah.. It's the internet, couldn't care less what someone thinks of me :P

BUT fact of the matter is, Luka struggled with athletic wings defending him or when teams applied a bit more pressure. It is true that he learned from that and he didn't have many problems during the ACB finals. But he massively struggled with his shot in some games.

So what i am trying to say here. Most of you guys talk like he is a white Lebron already, or people already think he will be HOF player. That's why i go extra mile with my criticism. I know he has good 2-3 years to achieve a decent level, but people already see him like he will win championship for mavs in like 2 years lol.

For him to achieve that, with the athleticism that he posses now, he would need Harden handles + his first quick step and a very good jumpshot. Around 50% FG with 7as-7reb averages.. And we are talking only about his rookie year here. So that is kinda silly to expect in my mind. You guys make it sound like that is possible while i think it is not.... IF he had at least Lonzo's quickness and speed, yea sure MAYBE but otherwise, i don't see him being a 20-7-7 guy in his rookie year.

Also it is reasonable to expect that he will hit this "rookie wall" at some point, so his numbers will dip... I don't know in what kind of physical shape he will be when the season start but i know that in 2 months he can't magically transform his body into something that will carry him through the whole season and possibly playoffs in his first year.

People need to calm down a bit and remember that we are only talking about an 19yo rookie. At least let him play out a few NBA games then we can start projecting. But since he hasn't played even 1 game, you and me have no clue how good he will actually be.
J_T
Veteran
Posts: 2,604
And1: 1,843
Joined: May 07, 2017

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3222 » by J_T » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:55 pm

Except that Ball had 10 PPG, not 20. We will just have to agree to disagree here. If Doncic doesn't have a better rookie season, I will be disappointed.
BostonCouchGM
Head Coach
Posts: 6,714
And1: 4,857
Joined: Jun 07, 2018

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3223 » by BostonCouchGM » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:28 pm

I think the Mavs set their franchise back by a decade with this trade. He's really overrated. The jump from Europe to the elite NBA athletes he'll face will expose him badly. And since he won't make the Mavs better, they'll be picking in the mid lottery again next season but that pick will go to the Hawks. It won't take long for the narrative to swing either. All the young wings in the NBA will be highly motivated to destroy him on both ends. By the time the all-star break rolls around people won't even be talking about him except as a footnote. People will of course make excuses for his disappointing play and that'll last for a couple of seasons until he eventually settles in as a nice role player or returns to Europe to be a star.
BlueSan
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,938
And1: 828
Joined: Dec 13, 2017
 

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3224 » by BlueSan » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:47 pm

Could be Could be. I ll make a list of people who said are calling Luka a Bust to remind the forum to either praise them or laugh at them
Antinomy
Head Coach
Posts: 6,786
And1: 7,617
Joined: Mar 18, 2017

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3225 » by Antinomy » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:14 am

Anyone saying to watch a few games or check out a highlight reel are fooling themselves.

Mario Hezonja looked like f***ing Kobe Bryant out there against those dudes. Got a rude awakening when he made it to the league.

Obviously he didn’t play as many minutes but you saw the ability he showed.
Popa
Ballboy
Posts: 24
And1: 23
Joined: Feb 09, 2018
 

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3226 » by Popa » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:33 am

Antinomy wrote:Anyone saying to watch a few games or check out a highlight reel are fooling themselves.

Mario Hezonja looked like f***ing Kobe Bryant out there against those dudes. Got a rude awakening when he made it to the league.

Obviously he didn’t play as many minutes but you saw the ability he showed.

MH: PER Final season INT season: 13.3
PER in 3rd year in NBA 13.7.
PER in first 2 seasons: 8.3.

If Doncic had the same translation he would have.
PER in final INT season: 22.8
PER in first 2 seasons: 17.8
PER in 3rd year: 23.2
Archx
RealGM
Posts: 10,333
And1: 8,231
Joined: Feb 09, 2018
 

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3227 » by Archx » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:41 am

J_T wrote:Except that Ball had 10 PPG, not 20. We will just have to agree to disagree here. If Doncic doesn't have a better rookie season, I will be disappointed.


I know but his shot was terrible. That's why i said, if he had a better shot % his PPG would go up drastically. And since people expect miracles from Doncic, i would assume he would need to be averaging close to 20ppg also.
J_T
Veteran
Posts: 2,604
And1: 1,843
Joined: May 07, 2017

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3228 » by J_T » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:42 am

Antinomy wrote:Anyone saying to watch a few games or check out a highlight reel are fooling themselves.

Mario Hezonja looked like f***ing Kobe Bryant out there against those dudes. Got a rude awakening when he made it to the league.

Obviously he didn’t play as many minutes but you saw the ability he showed.

Yeah, he played like Kobe, if Kobe was scoring 4.8 PPG.
Antinomy
Head Coach
Posts: 6,786
And1: 7,617
Joined: Mar 18, 2017

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3229 » by Antinomy » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:00 am

J_T wrote:
Antinomy wrote:Anyone saying to watch a few games or check out a highlight reel are fooling themselves.

Mario Hezonja looked like f***ing Kobe Bryant out there against those dudes. Got a rude awakening when he made it to the league.

Obviously he didn’t play as many minutes but you saw the ability he showed.

Yeah, he played like Kobe, if Kobe was scoring 4.8 PPG.


Doesn’t matter. Would you like me to provide you with how much guys like Jokic & Porzingis averaged?
User avatar
jolbin
Pro Prospect
Posts: 775
And1: 196
Joined: Mar 30, 2009

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3230 » by jolbin » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:21 am

Antinomy wrote:
J_T wrote:
Antinomy wrote:Anyone saying to watch a few games or check out a highlight reel are fooling themselves.

Mario Hezonja looked like f***ing Kobe Bryant out there against those dudes. Got a rude awakening when he made it to the league.

Obviously he didn’t play as many minutes but you saw the ability he showed.

Yeah, he played like Kobe, if Kobe was scoring 4.8 PPG.


Doesn’t matter. Would you like me to provide you with how much guys like Jokic & Porzingis averaged?

Yes, please do..
oh wait, 0,0,0 in 0 minutes in Euroleague for both Jokic and Porzs..
Jokic was in ABA league and Porzs in Spanish, only.. They were not good enough for Euroleague, yet ,at that age.. fail my man,man
Antinomy
Head Coach
Posts: 6,786
And1: 7,617
Joined: Mar 18, 2017

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3231 » by Antinomy » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:37 am

jolbin wrote:
Antinomy wrote:
J_T wrote:Yeah, he played like Kobe, if Kobe was scoring 4.8 PPG.


Doesn’t matter. Would you like me to provide you with how much guys like Jokic & Porzingis averaged?

Yes, please do..
oh wait, 0,0,0 in 0 minutes in Euroleague for both Jokic and Porzs..
Jokic was in ABA league and Porzs in Spanish, only.. They were not good enough for Euroleague, yet ,at that age.. fail my man,man


Even better.

Guess that means whatever you did outside the NBA means jacks*** once you’re in the NBA.

Thanks.
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,601
And1: 50,216
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3232 » by bondom34 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:46 am

Hezonja's numbers weren't close. Nor were Rubio's or Porzingis.

And Doncic was younger than all of them.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
mabundo_nagumbe
Junior
Posts: 491
And1: 609
Joined: Jan 30, 2018
 

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3233 » by mabundo_nagumbe » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:13 am

Antinomy wrote:
jolbin wrote:
Antinomy wrote:
Doesn’t matter. Would you like me to provide you with how much guys like Jokic & Porzingis averaged?

Yes, please do..
oh wait, 0,0,0 in 0 minutes in Euroleague for both Jokic and Porzs..
Jokic was in ABA league and Porzs in Spanish, only.. They were not good enough for Euroleague, yet ,at that age.. fail my man,man


Even better.

Guess that means whatever you did outside the NBA means jacks*** once you’re in the NBA.

Thanks.


Outside from dunks, Hezonja couldn't do jack **** in Europe. So I guess that means athleticism means jack **** if you can't play ball
Nikson
Junior
Posts: 402
And1: 79
Joined: Oct 21, 2017

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3234 » by Nikson » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:17 am

Hezonja, Rubio and Jokic....Jesus.
Nikson
Junior
Posts: 402
And1: 79
Joined: Oct 21, 2017

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3235 » by Nikson » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:20 am

Antinomy wrote:Anyone saying to watch a few games or check out a highlight reel are fooling themselves.

Mario Hezonja looked like f***ing Kobe Bryant out there against those dudes. Got a rude awakening when he made it to the league.

Obviously he didn’t play as many minutes but you saw the ability he showed.

So, you never saw Kobe. Ok.
Nikson
Junior
Posts: 402
And1: 79
Joined: Oct 21, 2017

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3236 » by Nikson » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:21 am

BostonCouchGM wrote:I think the Mavs set their franchise back by a decade with this trade. He's really overrated. The jump from Europe to the elite NBA athletes he'll face will expose him badly. And since he won't make the Mavs better, they'll be picking in the mid lottery again next season but that pick will go to the Hawks. It won't take long for the narrative to swing either. All the young wings in the NBA will be highly motivated to destroy him on both ends. By the time the all-star break rolls around people won't even be talking about him except as a footnote. People will of course make excuses for his disappointing play and that'll last for a couple of seasons until he eventually settles in as a nice role player or returns to Europe to be a star.

You will survive. He will be a HOF.
realEAST
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,780
And1: 1,312
Joined: Mar 25, 2016
   

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3237 » by realEAST » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:24 am

Archx wrote:
J_T wrote:
Archx wrote:
I don't agree with that. Lonzo is a good defender and also a good playmaker with great vision. His major problem is shooting and being able to stay healthy. If he can improve his shot he could easily become 20-7-7 guy. Also Lonzo is quite fast and athletic.

Luka has a lot of training ahead of him in order to achieve a decent NBA speed and quickness. I rather have lower expectations than being disappointed later on. Also i am realistic not like other people who already crowned him as the next HOF or a superstar lol...Thats just silly...

I think that you are too scared of being labeled as a Euro homer or Slovenian homer. Also having lower expectation just for the sake of not being disappointed is hardly a valid reason to have those lower expectations. I want to have realistic expectations and I am not afraid to be disappointed.

There is no way that Doncic is not better than Lonzo Ball is right now. I think that's a reasonable opinion to have.


Heh nah.. It's the internet, couldn't care less what someone thinks of me :P

BUT fact of the matter is, Luka struggled with athletic wings defending him or when teams applied a bit more pressure. It is true that he learned from that and he didn't have many problems during the ACB finals. But he massively struggled with his shot in some games.

So what i am trying to say here. Most of you guys talk like he is a white Lebron already, or people already think he will be HOF player. That's why i go extra mile with my criticism. I know he has good 2-3 years to achieve a decent level, but people already see him like he will win championship for mavs in like 2 years lol.

For him to achieve that, with the athleticism that he posses now, he would need Harden handles + his first quick step and a very good jumpshot. Around 50% FG with 7as-7reb averages.. And we are talking only about his rookie year here. So that is kinda silly to expect in my mind. You guys make it sound like that is possible while i think it is not.... IF he had at least Lonzo's quickness and speed, yea sure MAYBE but otherwise, i don't see him being a 20-7-7 guy in his rookie year.

Also it is reasonable to expect that he will hit this "rookie wall" at some point, so his numbers will dip... I don't know in what kind of physical shape he will be when the season start but i know that in 2 months he can't magically transform his body into something that will carry him through the whole season and possibly playoffs in his first year.

People need to calm down a bit and remember that we are only talking about an 19yo rookie. At least let him play out a few NBA games then we can start projecting. But since he hasn't played even 1 game, you and me have no clue how good he will actually be.


I think this would be stronger point if Lonzo really was athlete you are making him out to be, but he also doesn't possess some great, blow by, first step, nor wiggle. He might be a bit quicker overall (he is smaller and lighter), but Luka having considerable room to improve as an athlete (relative to how much is possible to improve it in general) I think he ends as better one than Lonzo.

And I even agree with you, it will take Doncic two to three season to fully develop body and skills to be top NBA player (depending of how you define top, imo he is All Star in his third season, mostly because he'll have full summer to prepare heading into that season)

But even so, is that really bad - I mean if you think it is unrealistic he achieves that level in single season, and I agree it is, but simply because the bar of expectation is set so high (lead a team to PO, All Star), than him realizing it by third year is still very, very good, and on track with optimistic projections.
Nikson
Junior
Posts: 402
And1: 79
Joined: Oct 21, 2017

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3238 » by Nikson » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:27 am

mabundo_nagumbe wrote:
Antinomy wrote:
jolbin wrote:Yes, please do..
oh wait, 0,0,0 in 0 minutes in Euroleague for both Jokic and Porzs..
Jokic was in ABA league and Porzs in Spanish, only.. They were not good enough for Euroleague, yet ,at that age.. fail my man,man


Even better.

Guess that means whatever you did outside the NBA means jacks*** once you’re in the NBA.

Thanks.


Outside from dunks, Hezonja couldn't do jack **** in Europe. So I guess that means athleticism means jack **** if you can't play ball

Those 3 dunks in 2 seasons. Someone put video from three different angles and got 9 dunks. That athleticism put him in lottery draft pick.

That’s reasonable thinking.

Luka has no athleticism and is MVP of all kind. He will be no good.

Same. That’s reasonable thinking.
realEAST
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,780
And1: 1,312
Joined: Mar 25, 2016
   

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3239 » by realEAST » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:30 am

Antinomy wrote:
jolbin wrote:
Antinomy wrote:
Doesn’t matter. Would you like me to provide you with how much guys like Jokic & Porzingis averaged?

Yes, please do..
oh wait, 0,0,0 in 0 minutes in Euroleague for both Jokic and Porzs..
Jokic was in ABA league and Porzs in Spanish, only.. They were not good enough for Euroleague, yet ,at that age.. fail my man,man


Even better.

Guess that means whatever you did outside the NBA means jacks*** once you’re in the NBA.

Thanks.


So, you didn't have a clue, and thought they were killing it, but now that you are exposed, it somehow is an argument for what you are trying to prove.
Pretty weak man.
Antinomy
Head Coach
Posts: 6,786
And1: 7,617
Joined: Mar 18, 2017

Re: Luka Doncic Part III 

Post#3240 » by Antinomy » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:36 am

realEAST wrote:
Antinomy wrote:
jolbin wrote:Yes, please do..
oh wait, 0,0,0 in 0 minutes in Euroleague for both Jokic and Porzs..
Jokic was in ABA league and Porzs in Spanish, only.. They were not good enough for Euroleague, yet ,at that age.. fail my man,man


Even better.

Guess that means whatever you did outside the NBA means jacks*** once you’re in the NBA.

Thanks.


So, you didn't have a clue, and thought they were killing it, but now that you are exposed, it somehow is an argument for what you are trying to prove.
Pretty weak man.


Actually I knew they weren’t “killing it”.

Your buddy decided to bring up Hezonja averaging low points & minutes.

I brought those two up because they did absolutely nothing noteworthy before the NBA. Now they actually are “killing it”. And look, what happened before the NBA meant absolutely nothing.

Moral of the story is, using Doncic’s accomplishment outside the NBA means absolutely nothing.

Understand?

Return to NBA Draft


cron