Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft

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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#341 » by azcatz11 » Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:01 pm

The-Power wrote:Sheppard looking like a top 3 pick in that game. He just has to look for his shot and be a threat to drive when there's a lane.

One player that I think might actually be a solid comparison for him is his direct predecessor, Cason Wallace. Sheppard projects to be the better shooter coming out of college but he's obviously overperforming a bit for the season while Wallace has stepped it up in the NBA. So while I'd have Sheppard higher than Wallace coming out of college, I think right now it's a close call as to who I'd rather have going forward. I trust Wallace's defense and driving game more, but I think Sheppard makes up some ground as the better passer.

What's your take on the Wallace-Sheppard comparison?


Why are we ignoring that Shep is very similar to Devin Booker? People don't want to admit it for some reason
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#342 » by The-Power » Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:12 pm

azcatz11 wrote:Why are we ignoring that Shep is very similar to Devin Booker? People don't want to admit it for some reason

Probably because they are not very similar at all?
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#343 » by K_chile22 » Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:21 pm

Reed's not gonna be a star but I'd be shocked if he doesn't end up being a really good player. In this draft thats at least top 7
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#344 » by Expeditious » Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:35 pm

nate33 wrote:
FarBeyondDriven wrote:Eventually "scouts" will have to realize that you can't keep claiming Dillingham and Sheppard are lottery talents with Kentucky losses mounting. They're a major reason why they're losing because of defense and some costly turnovers. It's different with Collier (an actual top 10 talent) because USC roster is very flawed with no bigs and a chucking defensive liability in Ellis always on the floor. Kentucky has several NBA talents and is very deep. If Dillingham and Sheppard were really top 10 talents like people claim they wouldn't be losing to bad teams like LSU.

This is not an unreasonable take, but another explanation might just be that Calipari is a lousy in-game coach. How many guards have come out of Kentucky and gone on to be superb NBA players despite not winning that much in college? Here's a list from just the last 10 years:

Cason Wallace
Tyrese Maxey
Immanuel Quickley
Tyler Herro
Keldon Johnson
SGA
De'Aaron Fox
Malik Monk
Jamal Murray
Devin Booker

Going by SRS, Kentucky was only really good back in 2014-15 (when they had Booker and KAT) and they were pretty solid in 2016-17 (Monk, Fox and Bam). The rest of their seasons in the past 10 years were pretty much in line with their SRS this year. They always have a ton of talent, but they usually finish with a disappointing record. Calipari is a great recruiter and a bad coach.


Most of those guys won a ton in college. And up until last year (Cason and this year's team), the other guys that didn't (arguably, Murray and SGA) had more to do with poor roster construction than scheme.

    2014-15 (Booker): 38-1; lost in the final four. Awesome team that won a ton.

    2015-16 (Murray): 27-9; lost in the second round. Murray was awesome, but the team had no front court. Part of that was Calipari's fault (he misused Skal), part of it was not (Dakari Johnson entering the NBA early was unexpected).

    2016-17 (Fox, Monk): 32-5; lost in the elite eight on a buzzer beater. Awesome team that won a ton.

    2017-18 (SGA): 26-11; lost in the sweet sixteen. Super young team that started 5 freshmen and got derailed about when Jarred Vanderbilt got hurt.

    2018-19 (Johnson, Herro): 30-7; lost in the elite eight in OT. Awesome team that won a ton.

    2019-20 (Quickley, Maxey): 25-6; won the SEC by 3 games before NCAAT was canceled. Awesome team that won a ton.

    2020-21: Covid year. Roster sucked. Team was devastated by injuries. Covid derailed everything. Whatever.

    2021-22 (TyTy Washington): 26-8; lost in the first round as a 2 seed. Awesome team that won a ton in the regular season but had some injuries near the end of the year and lost a game it definitely shouldn't have lost.

    2022-23 (Cason): 22-12; lost in the second round. No obvious holes in the roster, but the offensive and defensive schemes sucked and the team should have been better. Calipari deserves a lot of blame for this one.

    2023-24 (current guys): TBD. Again, no obvious holes in the roster. Offense looks great, but defensive scheme is even worse. Calipari will deserve blame if they don't go on a deep run.

Calipari definitely deserves blame for last year's team and this year's team (so far) not living up to their potential, but we don't need to denigrate the pre-Covid teams. Those guys were awesome in college and their teams won a lot of games and had a lot of postseason success. The pre-covid teams that weren't awesome were mostly because of team building issues that are inevitable when you are rebuilding a roster with high school players every year.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#345 » by azcatz11 » Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:41 pm

The-Power wrote:
azcatz11 wrote:Why are we ignoring that Shep is very similar to Devin Booker? People don't want to admit it for some reason

Probably because they are not very similar at all?


They are extremely similar. Similar body types and they have a similar release point on their shots. I'm honestly shocked I'm the only one seeing this...I would take Shep top 5.

Dillingham is way too small
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#346 » by nate33 » Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:47 pm

EmpireFalls wrote:In all seriousness can someone explain:

What does Reed Sheppard do that’s so much better than Tyler Kolek or Payton Pritchard’s draft profiles

Image
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#347 » by The-Power » Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:49 pm

azcatz11 wrote:
The-Power wrote:
azcatz11 wrote:Why are we ignoring that Shep is very similar to Devin Booker? People don't want to admit it for some reason

Probably because they are not very similar at all?


They are extremely similar. Similar body types and they have a similar release point on their shots. I'm honestly shocked I'm the only one seeing this...I would take Shep top 5.

Dillingham is way too small

What do you mean by ‘body type’ exactly considering that Booker has much better size? And release point, I mean, that's usually not a key component in determining whether two players are similar. What makes their games similar? How do they compare in terms of NBA roles? If you believe that they are ‘very similar’, you should find it easy to explain that.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#348 » by EmpireFalls » Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:02 pm

nate33 wrote:
EmpireFalls wrote:In all seriousness can someone explain:

What does Reed Sheppard do that’s so much better than Tyler Kolek or Payton Pritchard’s draft profiles

Image

Whoa, awesome. Where did you do this statistical comparison and how can I do this myself?
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#349 » by nate33 » Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:07 pm

EmpireFalls wrote:Whoa, awesome. Where did you do this statistical comparison and how can I do this myself?

Tankathon. Click the compare prospects tab at the top of the page.

The sophisticated graphics I did myself! :D
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#350 » by JMAC3 » Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:32 pm

Hard to downplay the game by Sheppard as they won, hit a game winner, great stat line... but I do have a few issues/notes here.

The-Power wrote:But please do tell me which of his made baskets and assists were contingent on him playing against a small opponent. There's a video posted right above you. It should not be difficult for you to do it. Re: ‘Sheppard's man Hubbard’. Please, that takes the cake and just shows that you have not even cared to watch the actual game we are talking about. Do you know how many points Hubbard scored on Sheppard in the entire game? 5. That's it. One midrange jumper and one prayer-3 as part of his shooting clinic at the end where he hit three consecutive 3s. That's it.


You do realize that video above doesn't show every single defensive possession that Sheppard played right? Also, I watched the video and there were several instances just in that short video where the size of Miss St guards were a huge disadvantage. The fact that most of the night he was guarded by smaller weaker opponents does matter just in general. but here are a few that stood out.

1. Reed gets beat backdoor 30 second mark, blocks one of the tiny guards from behind at rim.
2. Reed throws a backside alley oop at 45 seconds where the 5-10 guy is the backside help rotation.
3. Reed had two breakaways in fastbreak at 2:25 and 3:00 mins vs the small backcourt guys that are much easier to finish because of size advantage.
4. Reed block late, he blocks the 3 vs one of small guards. If that guy was an average height that isn't blocked.
5. Game winner, he beats his defender, then 5-10 kid slides in front late but is so small it doesn't affect the shot.

Some of these are nitpicking, but this was your request.

The-Power wrote:Sheppard was not even assigned to guard him in the first half (Wagner and Dillingham were), and when Sheppard was guarding him more in the second half he went 2 out of 5 by my count on possessions that ended with Sheppard as the primary defender.


Also, shouldn't this be a bit of a RedFlag that if Sheppard is supposedly this great defender that he would be guarding the opponents best player? Not letting him score 34 pts and almost go to OT? At a certain point I have to think Cal isn't this dumb and maybe Reed isn't all that good as a on ball defender. Heck just even the last possession, Reaves is on the guy with 34 and he gives up the game tying 3, if Sheppard is elite why is he not the one guarding him there? Are you telling me Cason? Caruso? Suggs? aren't guarding #13 there?
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#351 » by SeattleJazzFan » Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:47 pm

dillingham is definitely quicker/faster and longer than carson edwards was. also so much further ahead at the same stage of their careers. that comparison shouldn't be made.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#352 » by FarBeyondDriven » Thu Feb 29, 2024 12:53 am

The-Power wrote:
FarBeyondDriven wrote:Sheppard wasn't anybody's "primary defender".

So Hubbard was not ‘Sheppard's man’ as you incorrectly noted. Glad to see that resolved.

FarBeyondDriven wrote:Kentucky has like 8-9 guys who will likely play in the league. They had none. Their tiny guards who are awful on defense and their lack of athletes meant wide open threes and easy layups all night long. THAT is how Sheppard was able to easily hit wide open threes and drive freely down the middle of the lane and dish off for easy assists. This has been the case all year.

So no concrete examples even though there is a video posted right above, and no acknowledgement of your bias that makes it seemingly impossible to point out the deficiencies of college teams when it coms to assessing players other than Sheppard. Any conversation with you really is futile.


bro, Sheppard is among my favorite college players wtf are you talking about? Guys like him and McCain are why I love college basketball more than the NBA. Because they can produce despite not having "NBA size or athleticism" and their BBIQ and skills matter. But unfortunately great college players doesn't mean they'll be great NBA players. I'm like the only one defending the 2024 NBA draft class. You'd think I would have a vested interest talking up Sheppard to bolster the strength of this class and my defense of it. But that would be disingenuous.

I just watched highlights in the video Givony posted on twitter. State's small guards and unathletic roster is on full display in all of Sheppard's highlights. If you can't see that then it's you that might be biased.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#353 » by MemphisX » Thu Feb 29, 2024 3:31 am

JMAC3 wrote:Hard to downplay the game by Sheppard as they won, hit a game winner, great stat line... but I do have a few issues/notes here.

The-Power wrote:But please do tell me which of his made baskets and assists were contingent on him playing against a small opponent. There's a video posted right above you. It should not be difficult for you to do it. Re: ‘Sheppard's man Hubbard’. Please, that takes the cake and just shows that you have not even cared to watch the actual game we are talking about. Do you know how many points Hubbard scored on Sheppard in the entire game? 5. That's it. One midrange jumper and one prayer-3 as part of his shooting clinic at the end where he hit three consecutive 3s. That's it.


You do realize that video above doesn't show every single defensive possession that Sheppard played right? Also, I watched the video and there were several instances just in that short video where the size of Miss St guards were a huge disadvantage. The fact that most of the night he was guarded by smaller weaker opponents does matter just in general. but here are a few that stood out.

1. Reed gets beat backdoor 30 second mark, blocks one of the tiny guards from behind at rim.
2. Reed throws a backside alley oop at 45 seconds where the 5-10 guy is the backside help rotation.
3. Reed had two breakaways in fastbreak at 2:25 and 3:00 mins vs the small backcourt guys that are much easier to finish because of size advantage.
4. Reed block late, he blocks the 3 vs one of small guards. If that guy was an average height that isn't blocked.
5. Game winner, he beats his defender, then 5-10 kid slides in front late but is so small it doesn't affect the shot.

Some of these are nitpicking, but this was your request.

The-Power wrote:Sheppard was not even assigned to guard him in the first half (Wagner and Dillingham were), and when Sheppard was guarding him more in the second half he went 2 out of 5 by my count on possessions that ended with Sheppard as the primary defender.


Also, shouldn't this be a bit of a RedFlag that if Sheppard is supposedly this great defender that he would be guarding the opponents best player? Not letting him score 34 pts and almost go to OT? At a certain point I have to think Cal isn't this dumb and maybe Reed isn't all that good as a on ball defender. Heck just even the last possession, Reaves is on the guy with 34 and he gives up the game tying 3, if Sheppard is elite why is he not the one guarding him there? Are you telling me Cason? Caruso? Suggs? aren't guarding #13 there?


LMAO...that was a horrendous shot to take. It is basketball, sometimes guys just get hot. Referendums based on one game in basketball is always hilarious.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#354 » by JMAC3 » Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:16 pm

MemphisX wrote:
LMAO...that was a horrendous shot to take. It is basketball, sometimes guys just get hot. Referendums based on one game in basketball is always hilarious.


It was an open three in rhythm for a guy with over 30 pts. It was like a step behind the NBA line, you act like it was a 40 footer lol

Kentucky defense sucks, they are giving up the 2nd most ppg in their conference. Def ranks 230th in def rating. Sheppard is coming off the bench and when he is playing, he isn't guarding the opponents' best players, this is nothing new.

His defense is LaMelo Ball good. Good instincts, leads to steals but nowhere near a lockdown defender.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#355 » by MemphisX » Fri Mar 1, 2024 1:20 am

JMAC3 wrote:
MemphisX wrote:
LMAO...that was a horrendous shot to take. It is basketball, sometimes guys just get hot. Referendums based on one game in basketball is always hilarious.


It was an open three in rhythm for a guy with over 30 pts. It was like a step behind the NBA line, you act like it was a 40 footer lol

Kentucky defense sucks, they are giving up the 2nd most ppg in their conference. Def ranks 230th in def rating. Sheppard is coming off the bench and when he is playing, he isn't guarding the opponents' best players, this is nothing new.

His defense is LaMelo Ball good. Good instincts, leads to steals but nowhere near a lockdown defender.



A freshman is not a lockdown defender...I am shocked.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#356 » by Colbinii » Fri Mar 1, 2024 2:17 am

We are at the point where you don't need to squint to see the parallel's between Sheppard and Freshman Curry/Sophomore Haliburton. The difference, which has been pointed out numerous times, is Curry and Haliburton were more aggressive on a more consistent basis, but I couldn't help watching the Mississippi State game and thinking back to Curry's Sophomore year game against Duke.

Will Sheppard ever develop a consistent and relentless attack offensively, get a level of selfishness and "I'm Him" mentality that both Curry/Haliburton embraced as Offensive Catalysts? Well, if we knew Sheppard would play like that night-in, night-out, he would be the sure fire #1 pick.

I'm excited to see how Sheppard does and how he plays moving forward, knowing what he is capable of when he is at his best and with the ball in his hands. Unfortunately, Kentucky isn't necessarily the place for a young guard--competing with other NBA prospects--to start hoisting up 20+ Shots and having the entire offense run through you, though I don't see anything from Sheppard that convinces me he isn't capable of this.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#357 » by JMAC3 » Fri Mar 1, 2024 3:29 pm

MemphisX wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
MemphisX wrote:
LMAO...that was a horrendous shot to take. It is basketball, sometimes guys just get hot. Referendums based on one game in basketball is always hilarious.


It was an open three in rhythm for a guy with over 30 pts. It was like a step behind the NBA line, you act like it was a 40 footer lol

Kentucky defense sucks, they are giving up the 2nd most ppg in their conference. Def ranks 230th in def rating. Sheppard is coming off the bench and when he is playing, he isn't guarding the opponents' best players, this is nothing new.

His defense is LaMelo Ball good. Good instincts, leads to steals but nowhere near a lockdown defender.



A freshman is not a lockdown defender...I am shocked.


I was told Wagner and Dillingham were guarding the best scorer in the first half... Also, Freshman.

My point is I think he is being extremely oversold as a defender. I think he is at best a neutral defender in the NBA if not negative due to his physical limitations. That is assuming he has the bandwidth to be a primary point guard, if he has to slide over to the 2 and try and guard players who are either going to be bigger or quicker than him then that seems like an even bigger disaster.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#358 » by King Ken » Fri Mar 1, 2024 8:04 pm

Colbinii wrote:We are at the point where you don't need to squint to see the parallel's between Sheppard and Freshman Curry/Sophomore Haliburton. The difference, which has been pointed out numerous times, is Curry and Haliburton were more aggressive on a more consistent basis, but I couldn't help watching the Mississippi State game and thinking back to Curry's Sophomore year game against Duke.

Will Sheppard ever develop a consistent and relentless attack offensively, get a level of selfishness and "I'm Him" mentality that both Curry/Haliburton embraced as Offensive Catalysts? Well, if we knew Sheppard would play like that night-in, night-out, he would be the sure fire #1 pick.

I'm excited to see how Sheppard does and how he plays moving forward, knowing what he is capable of when he is at his best and with the ball in his hands. Unfortunately, Kentucky isn't necessarily the place for a young guard--competing with other NBA prospects--to start hoisting up 20+ Shots and having the entire offense run through you, though I don't see anything from Sheppard that convinces me he isn't capable of this.

He's not an every-play PG right now which he will be in the NBA. He will grow substantially as a PG. He won't be a stud overnight but if you come back here in 4-5 years, you will be extremely happy with your selection.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#359 » by Deathray » Sat Mar 2, 2024 8:47 pm

Devo Davis is a hell of a defender. He shut down Sheppard in the second half and denied Dillingham the ball when he got switched on him late in the game. Kentucky had way too much firepower for the rest of the Hogs but Devo can play NBA level quality defense.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#360 » by JMAC3 » Sat Mar 2, 2024 11:01 pm

Dillingham was great in the pick and roll to end the game, Ark had no answer with all their bigs in foul trouble.
Reed hit a few threes during a mini run by Kentucky but other than that he was pretty quiet the whole game.

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