Top 5 Prospects for 2012 NBA Draft

[UGA Hayes]

First I don't totally agree with your assessment, but even if I did, why would it matter? A point is a point however you get it.

[ManualRam]

First I don't totally agree with your assessment, but even if I did, why would it matter? A point is a point however you get it.

what dont you agree with?
a point is a point, but how a prospect scores matters as well. it gives an idea of a player's skill set and ability, which is important when projecting what type of role that player will be able to play in the future.

[UGA Hayes]

Right, I'm just asking why you like Barnes skillset more than MKG when their efficiencies are at worst equal if not slightly in favor of MKG. As for disagreement, I don't think you are giving MKG enough credit for his guard skills as I would take his handle over Barnes and he shoots a solid percentage on jumpshots although not as well as Barnes. And as a general philosophy I prefer ballhandlers who aren't great shooters to shooters who can't handle the ball or perhaps more accurately in Barnes case use what ball handling skills they have to get to the basket for high percentage shots. Also Gilchrist has been a primary playmaker in quite a few games this year so I don't agree with this idea that he can't be a fairly high option on a team at least compared to Barnes. I'm also pretty negative on Barnes b/c I don't think his numbers reflect very well how many times possessions end up being empty b/c of him.

[ManualRam]

you asked what barnes did better than gilchrist. i said he's a better shooter and scorer. the stats that have been posted dont disprove that.

look, i like MKG. i think he's a winner and the ultimate role player. he's been a very visible prospect for a long time. he was once considered THE best prospect in his class. the thing is that the same weaknesses he had as a sophomore in HS are still present to this day. he took a back seat to kyrie his junior yr and his skill set stagnated (in part because he had to play a lot of PF in HS). eventually other kids in his class caught up to him physically and surpassed him in terms of skills. when evaluating prospects, rate of improvement matters to me and gilchrist's strengths and weaknesses have stayed pretty much the same for going on almost 2.5 yrs now. not a good sign imo, especially for someone who's considered a gym rat like MKG.

i dont see the ball skills. i see a guy who is unselfish and aggressive with a solid first step. i dont see him being the primary ball-handler. if he were to turn pro next yr, i think his handle would be below average for a wing. there's no such thing as a temporary, primary ball-handler. you're either the primary ball-handler for your team or you're not. 2ndary ball-handler? yes, i've seen that, but when teague's not in the game, it's lamb being the primary ball-handler. but IMO, his ball-handling isnt that much better than barnes'.

regardless of what people say about barnes' ability to create his own shot, he's been doing it all yr. he might not get all the way to the basket like some expect or prefer, but 1-2 dribble pull ups, step backs, leaners, shots from the post, etc. he's been creating his own offense and i think he'll be better at that than MKG at the next level. that to go along with his better ability to score off the ball will lead to him being a better scorer overall, imo.

basically i think both project as solid starters, borderline all-stars, but i think barnes has more potential offensively. i think he can be a #2 scorer while also being a very good defender, while i think MKG projects to be an athletic, jack of all trades player and defensive stopper.

[sixerswillrule]

I see Barnes as a poor man's Carmelo and Gilchrist comparable to Gerald Wallace.

[Roger Murdock]

49% from 3. extremely weak? i say that's pretty damn good shooting.
vastly superior at putting the ball in the basket? maybe not. but barnes is better in that area by a good margin.

49% is extremely misleading and you know it.

He shot 34% last year on 5.3 attempts per game.

This year hes shooting 49% on 2.7 attempts per game.

You know as well as I do that his percentage is skewed and will come back down in time. The sample size is extremely small at this point. He shot pretty bad last year from deep for a pure shooter.

[ManualRam]

49% from 3. extremely weak? i say that's pretty damn good shooting.
vastly superior at putting the ball in the basket? maybe not. but barnes is better in that area by a good margin.

49% is extremely misleading and you know it.

He shot 34% last year on 5.3 attempts per game.

This year hes shooting 49% on 2.7 attempts per game.

You know as well as I do that his percentage is skewed and will come back down in time. The sample size is extremely small at this point. He shot pretty bad last year from deep for a pure shooter.

no, not really. they're 13 games into the season. that's beyond a hot start. he's being more selective with his 3's and it's paying off. we're not talking about a guy who's taking one 3PTA a game. he's taking 3 a game which is a solid volume for a guy who's focusing this yr on diversifying his offense.
do i think he'll shoot 49% from 3 for the rest of the season? no. but it shows what kind of shooter he can be and what kind of stroke he has. he'll have to go on a complete cold streak to equal his 3pt% from last yr. since he's being more selective with the 3, i doubt that happens.

still easily a better shooter than gilchrist. in that area i can say without a shadow of a doubt that they're not even close. barnes has more range and the ability to get his jumper off in way more situations. face up, pull up, step back, from the post, coming off curls, etc. he has all the ingredients to be a very good, versatile shooter at the next level.

[UGA Hayes]

Well I'm making a distinction b/t primary ball handler and primary playmaker, the words I used. Kobe isn't a primary ball handler either but I don't think anyone would argue that he isn't the primary playmaker. In fact, for the sake of argument and on a smaller scale it reminds me or the Jordan vs Kobe debates (Note: I am not saying these guys are the caliber of those two). Some would argue that Kobes overall polish and high skill level made him a better player than Jordan who was arguably less skilled but did the things he did really well, in large part to his superior athleticism, at a significantly higher percentage efficiency wise. For all the nice footwork and tough shots Barnes hits, they are bad basketball plays oftentimes and I would prefer the guy whose go to move is a beeline to the basket (we will just have to disagree on his handle).