Luka Doncic

[Mirotic12]

Google sportando. This is what I got: Sportando: the first website for worldwide basketball news and day to day basket RUMORS and transactions.

His buyout is actually much lower now. I speak Spanish and I found many reliable sources that says the same thing. In Spanish, unluckily. And the Rockets say his buyout is affordable.

Sammks showed you Real Madrid accounting numbers. I know they are in Spanish and that not anybody has to know about economics, but they are pretty clear. Reality as you say. The Telegraph can say whatever they want, but real numbers are there.

The discussion is over for me. You are too stubborn. Keep thinking that what Doncic is doing is something normal. I will keep thinking he is special.

Special: distinguished or different from what is ordinary or usual.

Nobody EVER did what he is doing. So according to the dictionary, he is special.

Good luck.

You are claiming that teams in Europe don't pay taxes (what was posted here in terms of "Real's budget") and talking about "reality"....

No, reality is that the clubs also pay taxes and it's many millions for a club like Real. And that is something that everyone with basic European basketball knowledge knows. I am putting you on ignore for now, because you seem like you have no real interest at all in posting facts here, and you seem to be more interested in trying to paint a certain agenda, and to antagonize anyone that does not post exactly to what that agenda promotes.

Also, there is a difference between net income base player salary, and budget. You should look that up also on Google.

The budgets, the actual things we are talking about here (includes the taxes they pay for the players, so the players keep all their salary)...and difference from base player net salary, the cost of rosters with the taxes added, and budget...


Real Madrid = €27 million euros in 2014 (what players cost with taxes the club pays for them) - it even specifies €18 million euros for the base net salary of the players........that means that Real had to pay €9 million euros in taxes, which the club paid, as is stated. Therefore, ergo the players didn't pay the taxes. Net salaries, not gross like NBA.

http://www.diariogol.com/es/notices/2013/10/todos-los-presupuestos-de-la-acb-2013-14-35371.php

Real Madrid = €38.8 million euros in 2015 (this is the club's budget)...just slightly higher than the €17.5 million euros that you guys are trying to claim here....notice how it says €16.4 million just for the base net salaries? So where did the other €22.4 million come from if the club didn't pay taxes, and if the player's only got a gross income like in NBA? Yeah, once again, the club pays the taxes for the player, so those are net income salaries. It explains it right there in complete detail, and anyone arguing otherwise is pure trolling.



(the section called "baloncesto" in the chart above = basketball section - €27.935 million euros in losses, not the budget, just how much money they lost in a season from the basketball section ....funny how they can lose almost €28 million euros in a single year from the basketball section, when supposedly the entire budget of the club's basketball section is only €17.5 million euros in total, at least according to you guys....) - yeah, mathematically impossible, using your figures and claims.

http://eljuegodenaismith.com/madrid-y-barcelona-50-millones-de-perdidas-en-un-ano

Please with your further posts, stop trying to falsely make me look like a liar and a troll, when I am the one that is actually correct.

[Sammks]

...

First: Not everything you find at the internet is true, you know ?

2nd: where it says that salaries are net ?

3rd: The taxes are close to 50% on these contracts over gross, not from net as you say here:

it even specifies €18 million euros for the base net salary of the players........that means that Real had to pay €9 million euros in taxes

At the budget you have a lot of things, not just the first team salaries. Surely the GMs wants their money, you have to pay travels, hotels, facilities, insurances, young teams... a lot of things. All these things compose the budget. You want to know the payroll and it was 17,5M gross last season.

If you wanna keep thinking Real is paying 7-8M dollars to some players and his payroll is so close to an NBA one.. its ok for me. But you are wrong.

Why Real spends so much 2 years ago ?.. because they won everything and they have something called " primas " ( prizes for trophies ). Easy. The " perfect season " costs to the club close to 10M in prizes.

[Goon]

Google sportando. This is what I got: Sportando: the first website for worldwide basketball news and day to day basket RUMORS and transactions.

His buyout is actually much lower now. I speak Spanish and I found many reliable sources that says the same thing. In Spanish, unluckily. And the Rockets say his buyout is affordable.

Sammks showed you Real Madrid accounting numbers. I know they are in Spanish and that not anybody has to know about economics, but they are pretty clear. Reality as you say. The Telegraph can say whatever they want, but real numbers are there.

The discussion is over for me. You are too stubborn. Keep thinking that what Doncic is doing is something normal. I will keep thinking he is special.

Special: distinguished or different from what is ordinary or usual.

Nobody EVER did what he is doing. So according to the dictionary, he is special.

Good luck.

You are claiming that teams in Europe don't pay taxes (what was posted here in terms of "Real's budget") and talking about "reality"....

No, reality is that the clubs also pay taxes and it's many millions for a club like Real. And that is something that everyone with basic European basketball knowledge knows. I am putting you on ignore for now, because you seem like you have no real interest at all in posting facts here, and you seem to be more interested in trying to paint a certain agenda, and to antagonize anyone that does not post exactly to what that agenda promotes.

Also, there is a difference between net income base player salary, and budget. You should look that up also on Google.

The budgets, the actual things we are talking about here (includes the taxes they pay for the players, so the players keep all their salary)...and difference from base player net salary, the cost of rosters with the taxes added, and budget...


Real Madrid = €27 million euros in 2014 (what players cost with taxes the club pays for them) - it even specifies €18 million euros for the base net salary of the players........that means that Real had to pay €9 million euros in taxes, which the club paid, as is stated. Therefore, ergo the players didn't pay the taxes. Net salaries, not gross like NBA.

http://www.diariogol.com/es/notices/2013/10/todos-los-presupuestos-de-la-acb-2013-14-35371.php

Real Madrid = €38.8 million euros in 2015 (this is the club's budget)...just slightly higher than the €17.5 million euros that you guys are trying to claim here....notice how it says €16.4 million just for the base net salaries? So where did the other €22.4 million come from if the club didn't pay taxes, and if the player's only got a gross income like in NBA? Yeah, once again, the club pays the taxes for the player, so those are net income salaries. It explains it right there in complete detail, and anyone arguing otherwise is pure trolling.



(the section called "baloncesto" in the chart above = basketball section - €27.935 million euros in losses, not the budget, just how much money they lost in a season from the basketball section ....funny how they can lose almost €28 million euros in a single year from the basketball section, when supposedly the entire budget of the club's basketball section is only €17.5 million euros in total, at least according to you guys....) - yeah, mathematically impossible, using your figures and claims.

http://eljuegodenaismith.com/madrid-y-barcelona-50-millones-de-perdidas-en-un-ano

Please with your further posts, stop trying to falsely make me look like a liar and a troll, when I am the one that is actually correct.

Prime example how you twist words to falsely empower your argument.

Sammks stated that Real's PAYROLL was 17 million, not the total basketball budget. You think paying salaries is the only expense clubs have? Usually, in top sports teams, payrolls represent roughly 50 percent of total expenses. So if the payroll was 17 million, and if they only had a turnover of 10 million, it is completely possible that they recorded a loss of 27 million. (17 million payroll plus 20 million all other costs minus 10 million of revenue = a loss of 27 million).

And just so you understand, since you seem to be bothered by the term "net" in financial records, turnover is the net sales generated by a business. Those numbers will always be net, don't mix that with net/gross salaries which players earn. If in the books you see net business expenses for salaries, that does not mean that this is the net salary for the players. From the players perspective, those numbers hold their gross amount, of which taxes are then deducted to get to the net amount.

You talk about the team paying players taxes. That is only possible if the team gives the player(s) in question a rise in salary that offsets the taxes they are be obliged to pay. So if in the financial books a salary is listed, it would already include the bonus that covers taxes and that is the gross amount the player gets.

So let's look at the OFFICIAL Real Madrid financial breakdown for season 2015/16.

Under "17.3 Gastos de personal" we can see how much Real Madrid spent for salaries, for their basketball team:
25.865 million euros was spent on ALL staff (players, coaches, other staff) and this number includes salaries, image rights, bonuses, social security, other charges.
17.528 million euros is the amount that was spent on players + coaches salaries!

Basketball expenses reached a total of 35.328 million euros, which proves my point, that the payroll represents roughly 50% of the total amount (49.6 % to be exact in this case). While the income was at just 10.873 million euros, so they made a huge loss in the last season.

This proves that Sammks was completely correct in his comment, official numbers back up his post, hopefully about Real Madrid's basketball budget stops here. You clearly aren't knowledgeable when it comes to economics so it's maybe best you stop talking about taxes, revenues, expenses ...

[UcanUwill]

I like his ability to impact the game without scoring, he is one of the best rebounding guards in the world. But I am not touching him with a top 5 pick unless he really improves his handle, without it he would never justify that high of the selection. He needs to get that Spanoulis/Austin Rivers handle at least, to be able to dribble around active hands under pressure, to be able to split defenses and cross over. He has really high understanding of the game, he just need to get that dribble going.

[Mirotic12]

Prime example how you twist words to falsely empower your argument.

Sammks stated that Real's PAYROLL was 17 million, not the total basketball budget. You think paying salaries is the only expense clubs have? Usually, in top sports teams, payrolls represent roughly 50 percent of total expenses. So if the payroll was 17 million, and if they only had a turnover of 10 million, it is completely possible that they recorded a loss of 27 million. (17 million payroll plus 20 million all other costs minus 10 million of revenue = a loss of 27 million).

And just so you understand, since you seem to be bothered by the term "net" in financial records, turnover is the net sales generated by a business. Those numbers will always be net, don't mix that with net/gross salaries which players earn. If in the books you see net business expenses for salaries, that does not mean that this is the net salary for the players. From the players perspective, those numbers hold their gross amount, of which taxes are then deducted to get to the net amount.

You talk about the team paying players taxes. That is only possible if the team gives the player(s) in question a rise in salary that offsets the taxes they are be obliged to pay. So if in the financial books a salary is listed, it would already include the bonus that covers taxes and that is the gross amount the player gets.

So let's look at the OFFICIAL Real Madrid financial breakdown for season 2015/16.

Under "17.3 Gastos de personal" we can see how much Real Madrid spent for salaries, for their basketball team:
25.865 million euros was spent on ALL staff (players, coaches, other staff) and this number includes salaries, image rights, bonuses, social security, other charges.
17.528 million euros is the amount that was spent on players + coaches salaries!

Basketball expenses reached a total of 35.328 million euros, which proves my point, that the payroll represents roughly 50% of the total amount (49.6 % to be exact in this case). While the income was at just 10.873 million euros, so they made a huge loss in the last season.

This proves that Sammks was completely correct in his comment, official numbers back up his post, hopefully about Real Madrid's basketball budget stops here. You clearly aren't knowledgeable when it comes to economics so it's maybe best you stop talking about taxes, revenues, expenses ...

The salaries of the players are net. You are trying to claim that they spent over €20 million euros on traveling and expenses, which is beyond absurd and totally ridiculous. Your own link is showing the net salaries. I 100% proved that those are the net salaries.

NBA salaries are GROSS, not net.

So guys like Llull and Rudy earn more than a $6 million NBA gross contract. Whereas, you are trying to claim that no one in European basketball earns that, which is patently false, untrue, and incorrect. You were proven wrong, now I am putting you on ignore also. Because a reasonable person would have simply said they made a mistake, they stand corrected, and that they learned something new.

A totally unreasonable person, that just wants to argue and stir things up, would still pretend that they were right, and would pretend that they were not already proven wrong. I don't have time for people like that. Sorry.

I like his ability to impact the game without scoring, he is one of the best rebounding guards in the world. But I am not touching him with a top 5 pick unless he really improves his handle, without it he would never justify that high of the selection. He needs to get that Spanoulis/Austin Rivers handle at least, to be able to dribble around active hands under pressure, to be able to split defenses and cross over. He has really high understanding of the game, he just need to get that dribble going.

He doesn't though. He's not an actual real point guard, so it's not an issue in the least. Come on man, anyone that knows basket can see he's not a real point guard. So his handle is more than good enough for any league in the world - because he's a 3, and would at most be something like a point forward, and not a real point.

He does not have the offense of a point guard, the handles of a point guard, the defensive ability to guard point guards in man to man in space, the lateral quickness for that, and he does not have the physical tools of a point guard (not remotely).

He's a more than capable ball handler for what he is, which is a 3. Kostas Papanikolaou was one of the best ball handlers, passers, and play makers on the Rockets, and he's what I would call average for a EuroLeauge 3 in those areas. The emphasis on play making, passing, and handling for wings is bigger in European basketball (most of the good EuroLeague wings can handle without traveling and palming the ball - something rare in NBA)...

If Papanikoloau can make a bunch of plays, and beat people with his passing and handles in the NBA, playing as a 3 and small ball 4, then Doncic definitely can do it, because he's a much better ball handler than Papanikoloau, and he's a little bit better of a passer also.

There is no need to keep basing Doncic's skills and standing as a player on him being a point guard, because he isn't one. This is so obvious. He's not even being used as a real point guard by Real. He's really not. He's being used as a big guard that can pass over the D on screen roll (natural advantage of good size and handle combo), and that can shoot over the point guards on the 3s (because he isn't good at beating people off the dribble, or finishing).....he's basically being used the way Tracy McGrady was in the latter part of his career, or someone like Penny Hardaway. That's not how a real point guard is used.

[Marcus]

Take the salary conversation to PMs and off the board if you're going to argue.

[Sports Geek]

I like his ability to impact the game without scoring, he is one of the best rebounding guards in the world. But I am not touching him with a top 5 pick unless he really improves his handle, without it he would never justify that high of the selection. He needs to get that Spanoulis/Austin Rivers handle at least, to be able to dribble around active hands under pressure, to be able to split defenses and cross over. He has really high understanding of the game, he just need to get that dribble going.

Big PGs usually protect the ball with their bodies. If you are the defender, you can barely see the ball, so hard to steal it. It is a different way to avoid opponents' hands.

[Goon]

Doncic had the most minutes played vs Zalgiris yesterday. Not the best game statisticaly, but the game was a very low scoring one. He finished with 6-5-4.

UcanUwill I agree that he needs to improve his handle and I'm sure he will, its apparent that he is getting better at it if we compare too a year ago.
______

Mirotic you are a complete troll. I used official Real Madrid documents to help you understand what those numbers mean, since I have knowledge in economics, but yeah, twist my words and disregard what I said, its what you do best. You made a few claims again and put words into my mouth that I didnt even say, you should be a shamed of yourself. And no, you havent proven anything, only thing you did was show that you are unable to read facts and that you rather troll than to accept when you are wrong.

Marcus I apologize for going off topic, this was my last time replying to Mirotic, and I sincerley hope the mods do something about him, as he brings nothing to the table but causing bad blood.

[SportsGuy8]

As much as I try, this is simply too good to ignore, so good that it needs to be in bold and enlarged:

A totally unreasonable person, that just wants to argue and stir things up, would still pretend that they were right, and would pretend that they were not already proven wrong. I don't have time for people like that. Sorry.

Please read this paragraph a couple of times, print it and tape it above or under your screen! This is actually an extremely accurate description. Not of Goon, though, but a person you see virtually every single day, mostly shortly after you wake up.

[DaddyCool19]

The salaries of the players are net. You are trying to claim that they spent over €20 million euros on traveling and expenses, which is beyond absurd and totally ridiculous. Your own link is showing the net salaries. I 100% proved that those are the net salaries.

NBA salaries are GROSS, not net.

European football teams never list their salaries as net. Whenever a contract is a leaked through footballleaks it's the gross salary and whenever they post their financial/annual reports everything in it is also pre tax. So why would it be different in their basketball department? Especially if they do the same for their football department.

[Sports Geek]

It seems Doncic got injured in his left leg today. He was walking with an ice bag on it at the end of the game. It doesn't seem to be serious, but he didn't play in the second half.

[SportsGuy8]

I'm actually surprised he doesn't miss games due to tiny injuries. Euroleague teams are basically having almost an NBA-like schedule now. Real Madrid has what, 34 ACB matches, 30 Euroleague ones, playoffs in both competitions and domestic cup (although very shortened). So for now, Luka's body has been holding up rather well.

With his minutes and role most likely increasing next year, he's actually already going to be extremely accustomed to the grueling NBA schedule.

[Goon]

I'm actually surprised he doesn't miss games due to tiny injuries. Euroleague teams are basically having almost an NBA-like schedule now. Real Madrid has what, 34 ACB matches, 30 Euroleague ones, playoffs in both competitions and domestic cup (although very shortened). So for now, Luka's body has been holding up rather well.

With his minutes and role most likely increasing next year, he's actually already going to be extremely accustomed to the grueling NBA schedule.

Good point on the schedule. Never realized the number of games for a team such as Real is so huge. I mean, they do have 2-3 games per week, but never really thought about it like that.

Doncic's body is massive, though. Very strong base, seems like he likes contact as well, I guess he was gifted with a basketball body. Very few 17-year-olds have his physique.

[Sports Geek]

I'm actually surprised he doesn't miss games due to tiny injuries. Euroleague teams are basically having almost an NBA-like schedule now. Real Madrid has what, 34 ACB matches, 30 Euroleague ones, playoffs in both competitions and domestic cup (although very shortened). So for now, Luka's body has been holding up rather well.

With his minutes and role most likely increasing next year, he's actually already going to be extremely accustomed to the grueling NBA schedule.

He is blessed with his age. I want my 17 to be back.

[SportsGuy8]

Doncic's body is massive, though. Very strong base, seems like he likes contact as well, I guess he was gifted with a basketball body. Very few 17-year-olds have his physique.

This is also a key when it comes to his upside. He has the frame that's going to allow him to keep adding muscle and eventually even transition to bullyball. Andre Miller, for example, made his career with being a crafty bully (albeit his huge limitations), imagine what he could have done with Doncic's height and SHOT ...

He's going to be quite unconventional and I think that's one of the main reasons why so many people fail to see his true potential. What he lacks when it comes to quickness and explosiveness, he makes up with things like frame, strength, willingness to seek contact ... That actually makes him very athletic also, just in a different way. Besides, you don't need that much quickness and explosiveness when you're able and willing to play bullyball.

Then when you add his smarts to the mix ...

[UcanUwill]

I wouldn't say his frame is all that impressive, his shoulders are not very wide.

[Kentavicius]

I wouldn't say his frame is all that impressive, his shoulders are not very wide.

Doncic is very well built. His body is really strong, and his shoulders are quite wide.



His father was a tank




By the way, Doncic's injury does not seem to be serious, and he is expected to travel with the team for Wednesday's matchup against Brose Bamberg, although he's doubtful.

[Curmudgeon]

Doncic is a top 3 pick in the 2018 draft, and maybe the #1 overall pick. Very, very skilled. If you watch the highlights of the game against Oklahoma City, maybe the most impressive thing was the closeout on Westbrook.

IMHO he's similar to Ben Simmons, but better.

[SportsGuy8]

I wouldn't say his frame is all that impressive, his shoulders are not very wide.

It is very impressive for a player with his characteristics. There aren't many players with such frames out there that also possess his skills and feel for the game. It's the one thing players like that are usually lacking.

Besides, even though he obviously doesn't have a freakish frame, the numbers support at least a well above-average one. He reportedly weighs 100kgs, which is around 220lbs. If he had an average frame, his arms would look HUGE at that weight, but they don't because his weight is spread throughout his good frame. His whole body would actually look huge (either fat or muscle mass), instead he looks rather average ...

@Kentavicius, yeah, his father was a tank. A much less skilled tank, though.

[SportsGuy8]

IMHO he's similar to Ben Simmons, but better.

I wouldn't go that far. Doncic might be a lot more well-rounded, but you still can't teach height ...

Simmons is severely lacking in shooting abilities, however, that's something that can be taught with repetition (although not always, *cough* Rubio *cough* and shooting with the wrong hand).