Markelle Fultz

[Vesper]

Actually, Russell has amazing vision and passing.

He's just plays too much like hes too cool for school, hence his turnovers. His passing is elite imo.

[Marcus]

Fultz

[jrob23]

Actually, Russell has amazing vision and passing.

He's just plays too much like hes too cool for school, hence his turnovers. His passing is elite imo.

that's been my impression of Fultz as well...too cool for school. But, I do think that last game versus UCLA could be the impetus for him to come out and just bring it. Usually the tournament is a good time to show that intensity but sadly we won't get that chance. Hopefully he's heard the criticism and dominates a great opponent. I know my opinion could be swayed if I saw him have a game like that. Right now I get the sense that he doesn't feel he needs to bust his behind because he believes he's just so much more skilled than others. Or, he's too cool for school because he's afraid to go full throttle and be exposed for lacking athleticism. Whatever it is it hasn't hurt him because he's got mostly fanboys and people have bought into the hype. But there has been more chatter about him being overrated since the UCLA game.

[antonac]

I think the casual approach from Fultz is a concern, as the trend in his career has been to be some what under-estimated and then to absolutely blow expectations out the water. that would have been hard in college, as people were finally beginning to tip him as a potential no.1 back in ausgust, but it's still worrying given that those intangible factors are a big part of what makes him so appealling (Ball's floor is definitely higher right now imo).

[E-Balla]

Actually, Russell has amazing vision and passing.

He's just plays too much like hes too cool for school, hence his turnovers. His passing is elite imo.

that's been my impression of Fultz as well...too cool for school. But, I do think that last game versus UCLA could be the impetus for him to come out and just bring it. Usually the tournament is a good time to show that intensity but sadly we won't get that chance. Hopefully he's heard the criticism and dominates a great opponent. I know my opinion could be swayed if I saw him have a game like that. Right now I get the sense that he doesn't feel he needs to bust his behind because he believes he's just so much more skilled than others. Or, he's too cool for school because he's afraid to go full throttle and be exposed for lacking athleticism. Whatever it is it hasn't hurt him because he's got mostly fanboys and people have bought into the hype. But there has been more chatter about him being overrated since the UCLA game.

Yeah that's a major difference between him and DLo imo. DLo was too cool for school but he was anything but that against VCU and Zona in the NCAA tournament. Fultz gave up on these dudes early.

[E-Balla]

Simmons over rated as a passer?! And its known?

You dudes suffer from the D'Angelo Russell syndrome. Every time a prospect can make some flashy passes, they're some type of generational passer. Simmons' passing is so lauded because 1. He makes flashy passes and 2. He is 6'10. But other than that, his passing is a bit overrated and I've always said that his passing doesn't make his team better. We'll just wait and see, after all this board did say that Russell was the next great passer. Oh well

There's a legit concern there--Simmons didn't play PG at LSU and he mostly only passed in transition or on drives from the perimeter. We don't actually know if he'll be able to play PG full time, or at least enough to get the 8-12 assists that most starting PGs can get. I don't think there are big reasons to assume he can't, but it's an unknown, and it's not child's play to master the pn'r and other more difficult aspects of full-time PG timing.

Problem with the Russell comparison is that he basically was the PG on Ohio State and still didn't produce many assists or show good vision as a half-court facilitator. The amazing passes people were talking about were like 3 passes Russell made at a stand-still (i.e. not off the dribble in in-game action), and many people were skeptical that meant he was likely to be a great passer at the next level (I for one was vocal about that when the Sixers were thinking of drafting him). Also, the biggest problem with Russell as a prospect was his inability to shake guys or get to the cup--if you can't do that then it's harder to create for teammates, and that should be easier for Simmons to do with his combo of size and quickness.

Russell wasn't the PG Shannon Scott was. Your while perception of him is off probably starting there. I'm guessing you didn't see him in college if you didn't know he was the SG.

[HotelVitale]

Russell wasn't the PG Shannon Scott was. Your while perception of him is off probably starting there. I'm guessing you didn't see him in college if you didn't know he was the SG.

Since we personally exchanged like 20 posts about Russell during his season at OSU you know that not's true. Scott's usage was very low and Russell had the ball in his hands much of the time, Scott sort of played the Pat Beverley to James Harden role. Hence the phrasing 'Russell was basically the PG'. Now feel free to address the point itself.

(Also, after thousands of posts on the draft and trade boards, do you really think I don't know that Russell wasn't officially a PG in college? It was only a few years ago and it's really really basic knowledge, like that KAT had to split time at UK or that Wiggins was underwhelming at KU.)

[cksdayoff]

Russell had the ball in his hands much much more than Scott did. Scott was the secondary ball handler when both were on the floor together. It's similar to Fultz and Crisp at Washington.

[E-Balla]

Russell wasn't the PG Shannon Scott was. Your while perception of him is off probably starting there. I'm guessing you didn't see him in college if you didn't know he was the SG.

Since we personally exchanged like 20 posts about Russell during his season at OSU you know that not's true. Scott's usage was very low and Russell had the ball in his hands much of the time, Scott sort of played the Pat Beverley to James Harden role. Hence the phrasing 'Russell was basically the PG'. Now feel free to address the point itself.

(Also, after thousands of posts on the draft and trade boards, do you really think I don't know that Russell wasn't officially a PG in college? It was only a few years ago and it's really really basic knowledge, like that KAT had to split time at UK or that Wiggins was underwhelming at KU.)

Scott averaged 6 assists per night. Bev doesn't setup more set plays than Harden at all.

[Marcus]

Thread is about Fultz.


Take convo about other prospects to an applicable thread orrrrrrrrrr to the PMs.

[Vesper]

Makes you wonder about expectations though results wise.

Both Fultz and Smith play on crap teams, therefore have crap record. However, most likely they will get drafted to crap teams again and play much better competition.

[916fan]

Actually, Russell has amazing vision and passing.

He's just plays too much like hes too cool for school, hence his turnovers. His passing is elite imo.

that's been my impression of Fultz as well...too cool for school. But, I do think that last game versus UCLA could be the impetus for him to come out and just bring it. Usually the tournament is a good time to show that intensity but sadly we won't get that chance. Hopefully he's heard the criticism and dominates a great opponent. I know my opinion could be swayed if I saw him have a game like that. Right now I get the sense that he doesn't feel he needs to bust his behind because he believes he's just so much more skilled than others. Or, he's too cool for school because he's afraid to go full throttle and be exposed for lacking athleticism. Whatever it is it hasn't hurt him because he's got mostly fanboys and people have bought into the hype. But there has been more chatter about him being overrated since the UCLA game.

I think the casual approach from Fultz is a concern, as the trend in his career has been to be some what under-estimated and then to absolutely blow expectations out the water. that would have been hard in college, as people were finally beginning to tip him as a potential no.1 back in ausgust, but it's still worrying given that those intangible factors are a big part of what makes him so appealling (Ball's floor is definitely higher right now imo).

I think the "casual approach" is a minor problem. He has the demeanor of a young James Harden, Tyreke Evans, or Kawhi Leonard. Not all guys can be alphas, and I don't think you should hold that against an 18yearold prospect. A lot of people criticized Harden for playing "lazy" or looking "lazy" all because of the way he plays the game. He makes it look effortlessly. A lot of people questioned Harden's lack of vocal leadership last year, but that all went away this year. Why? Because he's playing amazing and they're winning. It's not always about the intangibles.
Curry has never really been a vocal leader on the floor either. However, he plays extremely cocky, and shows a lot of emotion. I have never seen anyone ever call in question Steph's leadership. Does Fultz need to show more passion? Is that what it is? Idon't think people should hold Fultz' "leadership" or "casual approach" against him a lot. It's true you want your PG to be the leader of the team, but some guys just aren't. His cool, calm, and collectivness is just his demeanor.

He won't ever be a true alpha guy, but no one says he can't learn to lead his team, and become more vocal. Again, he's still only 18.

[reanimator]

The DLo/Fultz convo is resurfacing? Cool. Still don't see any similarities outside of physical dimensions.

[916fan]

The DLo/Fultz convo is resurfacing? Cool. Still don't see any similarities outside of physical dimensions.

Imo, their games aren't similar at all, but I think people connect them because of their height and shooting. Russell was a really good shooter and shot creator. He played SG, but it was clear that he has the handles and playmaking to play PG. Fultz on the other hand is another good shooter and shot creator. He has good handles and solid playmaking(not as good as Russell). Russell's big down-fall in the NBA is his lack of quickness. While he's a good ball handler, he struggles creating space and separation. He's not quick enough to get to the rim which hurts him a lot.

I think Fultz is the type of player people expected Russell to become. They have some similar skillsets. His rookie year is going to be what people expected from Russell.

[reanimator]

Problem with the Russell comparison is that he basically was the PG on Ohio State and still didn't produce many assists or show good vision as a half-court facilitator. The amazing passes people were talking about were like 3 passes Russell made at a stand-still (i.e. not off the dribble in in-game action), and many people were skeptical that meant he was likely to be a great passer at the next level (I for one was vocal about that when the Sixers were thinking of drafting him). Also, the biggest problem with Russell as a prospect was his inability to shake guys or get to the cup--if you can't do that then it's harder to create for teammates, and that should be easier for Simmons to do with his combo of size and quickness.

Yup, Russell was a thread the needle type where as Fultz might not have that "feel" but his ability to get where ever he wants should make him a better facilitator.

[jrob23]

so another typical Fultz performance. Bad: Poor on ball defense, lazy fighting through screens and staying with his man, sloppy, poor FT shooter, unable to finish against length, shrank when needed most, several ugly misses. Good: Hit lots of jumpers, able to get by very poor defenders with the dribble, two blocks on help defense. However, even the good comes with a caveat. He was getting shots off, sometimes barely, against a guy 4-5 inches shorter than him, and a couple of times when he was able to penetrate he was met by a big and unable to finish which is indicative of how life will be at the next level. This was a terrible defense he faced and a very winnable game and down the stretch he just wasn't clutch. That has to count for something doesn't it? That he can't will his team to victory even against beatable teams?

He's an obviously talented player with immense upside but he's not head and shoulders the best prospect in the draft. He just isn't. That narrative has to die already. His size and skill advantage will disappear once he leaves college and it's going to take a attitude adjustment and hard work for him to adjust.

He played off ball quite a bit in this game and I believe he'll be a combo guard initially with PG down the road kinda like Jamal Murray and Harden. There's still a couple more games against great teams so he's got time to really impress enough to change my perception of him.

[bigpimpatl]

He played through a knee injury. He didn't practice the days leading up to the game. But he didn't look that bad. They were down 15 early and took a slight lead before the break, and Fultz led that charge.

[jrob23]

He played through a knee injury. He didn't practice the days leading up to the game. But he didn't look that bad. They were down 15 early and took a slight lead before the break, and Fultz led that charge.

He was as explosive as he was before the knee issue. He even said he could play if he had to, they were just being cautious. It wasn't a factor.

Today against ARI is one such game that he could make me change my mind. He's going against good perimeter scorers and defenders. If he can go out and have a 30 point game, protect the ball, hit his FTs, and defend...it would be an eye opener for me. The way people talk about him you'd think he's had games like this several times this season when in fact...he hasn't had a single one.

[cksdayoff]

zona's kadeem allen is an elite defender, but keep in mind he is 6 years older than fultz. the dude is 24 years old and physically mature.

[reanimator]

Today against ARI is one such game that he could make me change my mind. He's going against good perimeter scorers and defenders. If he can go out and have a 30 point game, protect the ball, hit his FTs, and defend...it would be an eye opener for me.

you are getting your wish.