Cooper Flagg - Duke

[JustBuzzin]

The new NBA **** sucks man...even when you get a sick prospect like Flagg, one of the most well rounded and accomplished prospects at 17 we've seen, and the convos are devolving into just being about his 3pt shot.

this is a critique of the NBA and basketball in 2024 more than anything else

You can't over hype someone then ignore when they don't produce.

He's a good prospect, but I don't think he will be a superstar level player unless he improves that jumpshot.

He can still be good, but right now he reminds me of Ben Simmons. That's not a bad comparison. Simmons was the #1 overall pick coming out of LSU.

[JMAC3]

Duke is 8-2 and loaded with future NBA talent.

Flagg leads them in scoring, rebounds, assists, fta, blocks, fga... so yeah probably willing to look past he isn't good at one thing right now and that is outside shooting.

Especially when he is 6-9, he probably can survive for 3 years in the NBA being a pretty bad shooter if you play him at the 4.
Pretty big difference between him and a 6 foot tall guard that can't shoot.

Again, yeah him being 17 matters, Duke is asking him to lead them in scoring, be their best rebounder, be their best playmaker, their best overall defender and people are mad he isn't also their best shooter. Like C'mon people.

[EvanZ]

The new NBA **** sucks man...even when you get a sick prospect like Flagg, one of the most well rounded and accomplished prospects at 17 we've seen, and the convos are devolving into just being about his 3pt shot.

this is a critique of the NBA and basketball in 2024 more than anything else

You can't over hype someone then ignore when they don't produce.

He's a good prospect, but I don't think he will be a superstar level player unless he improves that jumpshot.

He can still be good, but right now he reminds me of Ben Simmons. That's not a bad comparison. Simmons was the #1 overall pick coming out of LSU.

This is pretty shallow comp. Ben Simmons attempted 3 3's in his Freshmen season. He could never shoot. Cooper has shot before college and he is a good free throw shooter too. It's a small sample of 3s to boot. A much better and more realistic view of his 3pt shooting would be more like Franz as a Freshman (or even sophomore) and Paolo. It's absolutely not a non-shooter like Ben Simmons. That's just being lazy.

[CptCrunch]

Cooper can pull up against AD in Olympics training camp. He can learn to improve his shot.

[tontoz]

This is pretty shallow comp. Ben Simmons attempted 3 3's in his Freshmen season. He could never shoot. Cooper has shot before college and he is a good free throw shooter too. It's a small sample of 3s to boot. A much better and more realistic view of his 3pt shooting would be more like Franz as a Freshman (or even sophomore) and Paolo. It's absolutely not a non-shooter like Ben Simmons. That's just being lazy.

Paulo shot 33.8% as a freshman
Wagner shot 31% as a freshman, 34% as a sophmore.
Cooper is shooting 22% from 3.

It wouldnt be as big a deal if he was shooting ok from midrange but that isn't the case.

[Special_Puppy]

The new NBA **** sucks man...even when you get a sick prospect like Flagg, one of the most well rounded and accomplished prospects at 17 we've seen, and the convos are devolving into just being about his 3pt shot.

this is a critique of the NBA and basketball in 2024 more than anything else

You can't over hype someone then ignore when they don't produce.

He's a good prospect, but I don't think he will be a superstar level player unless he improves that jumpshot.

He can still be good, but right now he reminds me of Ben Simmons. That's not a bad comparison. Simmons was the #1 overall pick coming out of LSU.

This is pretty shallow comp. Ben Simmons attempted 3 3's in his Freshmen season. He could never shoot. Cooper has shot before college and he is a good free throw shooter too. It's a small sample of 3s to boot. A much better and more realistic view of his 3pt shooting would be more like Franz as a Freshman (or even sophomore) and Paolo. It's absolutely not a non-shooter like Ben Simmons. That's just being lazy.

Flagg is currently a 72.5% FT shooter in college. That's not a good FT% even for someone as young as Flagg

[EvanZ]

This is pretty shallow comp. Ben Simmons attempted 3 3's in his Freshmen season. He could never shoot. Cooper has shot before college and he is a good free throw shooter too. It's a small sample of 3s to boot. A much better and more realistic view of his 3pt shooting would be more like Franz as a Freshman (or even sophomore) and Paolo. It's absolutely not a non-shooter like Ben Simmons. That's just being lazy.

Paulo shot 33.8% as a freshman
Wagner shot 31% as a freshman, 34% as a sophmore.
Cooper is shooting 22% from 3.

It wouldnt be as big a deal if he was shooting ok from midrange but that isn't the case.

It's 36 attempts bro. 36. You might want to chill a bit. 36 attempts is literally like 3 games for Steph Curry.

Check it bro. If he made 4 more shots he'd be at 33%. 4 shots. So then you'd be fine with it? Imagine your entire thesis of a player resting on 4 made 3's. WILD.

[tontoz]

This is pretty shallow comp. Ben Simmons attempted 3 3's in his Freshmen season. He could never shoot. Cooper has shot before college and he is a good free throw shooter too. It's a small sample of 3s to boot. A much better and more realistic view of his 3pt shooting would be more like Franz as a Freshman (or even sophomore) and Paolo. It's absolutely not a non-shooter like Ben Simmons. That's just being lazy.

Paulo shot 33.8% as a freshman
Wagner shot 31% as a freshman, 34% as a sophmore.
Cooper is shooting 22% from 3.

It wouldnt be as big a deal if he was shooting ok from midrange but that isn't the case.

It's 36 attempts bro. 36. You might want to chill a bit. 36 attempts is literally like 3 games for Steph Curry.

Check it bro. If he made 4 more shots he'd be at 33%. 4 shots. So then you'd be fine with it? Imagine your entire thesis of a player resting on 4 made 3's. WILD.

Like i said it isn't just the 3s. It is also all the other shots that arent rim attempts. He is shooting horribly on any shot that isn't at the rim.

[JMAC3]

Paulo shot 33.8% as a freshman
Wagner shot 31% as a freshman, 34% as a sophmore.
Cooper is shooting 22% from 3.

It wouldnt be as big a deal if he was shooting ok from midrange but that isn't the case.

It's 36 attempts bro. 36. You might want to chill a bit. 36 attempts is literally like 3 games for Steph Curry.

Check it bro. If he made 4 more shots he'd be at 33%. 4 shots. So then you'd be fine with it? Imagine your entire thesis of a player resting on 4 made 3's. WILD.

Like i said it isn't just the 3s. It is also all the other shots that arent rim attempts. He is shooting horribly on any shot that isn't at the rim.

Dylan Harper is shooting 24/84 on shots that aren't at the Rim. 28.5%
Cooper Flagg is shooting 26/87 on shots not at the rim. 29.9%

One of these guys can't shoot.

[tontoz]

It's 36 attempts bro. 36. You might want to chill a bit. 36 attempts is literally like 3 games for Steph Curry.

Check it bro. If he made 4 more shots he'd be at 33%. 4 shots. So then you'd be fine with it? Imagine your entire thesis of a player resting on 4 made 3's. WILD.

Like i said it isn't just the 3s. It is also all the other shots that arent rim attempts. He is shooting horribly on any shot that isn't at the rim.

Dylan Harper is shooting 24/84 on shots that aren't at the Rim. 28.5%
Cooper Flagg is shooting 26/87 on shots not at the rim. 29.9%

One of these guys can't shoot.

Harper is shooting 59.1% on 2s compared to 50.5 for Flagg so i doubt those numbers are accurate.

Overall Harper has an EFG of 56.3% and a TS of 60.9% compared to and EFG of 45.9% and a TS of 50.6%. Probably not the guy you want to bring up as a comparison, a pg shooting 10% better.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/dylan-harper-1.html

[JMAC3]

Like i said it isn't just the 3s. It is also all the other shots that arent rim attempts. He is shooting horribly on any shot that isn't at the rim.

Dylan Harper is shooting 24/84 on shots that aren't at the Rim. 28.5%
Cooper Flagg is shooting 26/87 on shots not at the rim. 29.9%

One of these guys can't shoot.

Harper is shooting 59.1% on 2s compared to 50.5 for Flagg so i doubt those numbers are accurate.

Overall Harper has an EFG of 56.3% and a TS of 60.9% compared to and EFG of 45.9% and a TS of 50.6%. Probably not the guy you want to bring up as a comparison, a pg shooting 10% better.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/dylan-harper-1.html

I thought we were talking about non-rim attempts? We pivoting the discussion now? Also, you can doubt it but it is true.

[tontoz]

I thought we were talking about non-rim attempts? We pivoting the discussion now? Also, you can doubt it but it is true.

Sorry but the math doesn't work. What is your source?

Cooper is shooting 70% at the rim which is elite. In order for Harper to be shooting that much better than him overall he would have to be shooting 80%+ at the rim which is definitely not happening. The only guy who could do that is someone like Giannis who dunks all the time. Harper isnt that guy.

[JMAC3]

I thought we were talking about non-rim attempts? We pivoting the discussion now? Also, you can doubt it but it is true.

Sorry but the math doesn't work. What is your source?

Cooper is shooting 70% at the rim which is elite. In order for Harper to be shooting that much better than him overall he would have to be shooting 80%+ at the rim which is definitely not happening. The only guy who could do that is someone like Giannis who dunks all the time. Harper isnt that guy.

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2025&p=Cooper%20Flagg&t=Duke

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2025&p=Dylan%20Harper&t=Rutgers

[JustBuzzin]

The new NBA **** sucks man...even when you get a sick prospect like Flagg, one of the most well rounded and accomplished prospects at 17 we've seen, and the convos are devolving into just being about his 3pt shot.

this is a critique of the NBA and basketball in 2024 more than anything else

You can't over hype someone then ignore when they don't produce.

He's a good prospect, but I don't think he will be a superstar level player unless he improves that jumpshot.

He can still be good, but right now he reminds me of Ben Simmons. That's not a bad comparison. Simmons was the #1 overall pick coming out of LSU.

This is pretty shallow comp. Ben Simmons attempted 3 3's in his Freshmen season. He could never shoot. Cooper has shot before college and he is a good free throw shooter too. It's a small sample of 3s to boot. A much better and more realistic view of his 3pt shooting would be more like Franz as a Freshman (or even sophomore) and Paolo. It's absolutely not a non-shooter like Ben Simmons. That's just being lazy.

He's more Simmons than Wagner at this point and not sure why you bring up Paola totally different caliber player.

Keyword "right now" when he improves that jumpshot he will be a totally different player. Right now he's in that Simmons mold as a point forward with defense. I can only judge him off what I have seen so far.

Highschool is a different level of competition. This is the big boys league. Each level of basketball gets tougher. The great one can adapt. Let's see if he can improve that jumpshot throughout the season.

[tontoz]

I thought we were talking about non-rim attempts? We pivoting the discussion now? Also, you can doubt it but it is true.

Sorry but the math doesn't work. What is your source?

Cooper is shooting 70% at the rim which is elite. In order for Harper to be shooting that much better than him overall he would have to be shooting 80%+ at the rim which is definitely not happening. The only guy who could do that is someone like Giannis who dunks all the time. Harper isnt that guy.

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2025&p=Cooper%20Flagg&t=Duke

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2025&p=Dylan%20Harper&t=Rutgers

3s are worth more than 2s.

Most of Harpers attempts that aren't at the rim are from 3. Most of Cooper's non-rim attempts are 2s.

Looks like Dylan avoids 2 pointers that aren't at the rim, probably only taking them late in the clock under duress, similar to many NBA players.

Pretty much any jumper Cooper takes will be open because not many guys will have the length and athleticism to contest his shot. That isn't true for Harper who is shorter and has a low release point.

[EvanZ]

You can't over hype someone then ignore when they don't produce.

He's a good prospect, but I don't think he will be a superstar level player unless he improves that jumpshot.

He can still be good, but right now he reminds me of Ben Simmons. That's not a bad comparison. Simmons was the #1 overall pick coming out of LSU.

This is pretty shallow comp. Ben Simmons attempted 3 3's in his Freshmen season. He could never shoot. Cooper has shot before college and he is a good free throw shooter too. It's a small sample of 3s to boot. A much better and more realistic view of his 3pt shooting would be more like Franz as a Freshman (or even sophomore) and Paolo. It's absolutely not a non-shooter like Ben Simmons. That's just being lazy.

He's more Simmons than Wagner at this point and not sure why you bring up Paola totally different caliber player.

Keyword "right now" when he improves that jumpshot he will be a totally different player. Right now he's in that Simmons mold as a point forward with defense. I can only judge him off what I have seen so far.

Highschool is a different level of competition. This is the big boys league. Each level of basketball gets tougher. The great one can adapt. Let's see if he can improve that jumpshot throughout the season.

Man you're just so wildly off I'm quoting this so I can reference it in the future.

36 attempts. I mean. Simmons took 3 3's. Make it make sense bro.

[CptCrunch]

What is this point forward crap. Cooper cannot play point right now, at least for 3-5 years if ever develops those skills. Cooper can shoot and isn't that much worse than other top prospects who aren't labeled as elite pure shooters.

Simmons is actually a pure point guard savant. This Ben Simmons comparison and narrative is absolutely insane.

[Braggins]

Cooper Flagg ~ PF/SF
6'9" 205 ~ 18.5 yrs (on draft day)
per75: 23.0 pts ~ 13.0 reb ~ 5.2 ast ~ 2.3 stl ~ 2.0 blk ~ 3.2 tov
50.5% 2pt ~ 22.2% 3pt ~ 72.5% ft
+29.3 net ~ +11.8 bpm

Paolo Banchero ~ PF/SF
6'10" 250 ~ 19.6 yrs (on draft day)
per75: 23.0 pts ~ 10.4 reb ~ 4.3 ast ~ 1.4 stl ~ 1.2 blk ~ 3.2 tov
52.5% 2pt ~ 33.8% 3pt ~ 72.9% ft
+15.7 net ~ +7.7 bpm

[EvanZ]

I just think even if you see Coop as a souped up Franz that's an awesome prospect. The fact is most 17-year old 6'10" Freshmen are not averaging > 20% AST%. And against a top 10 SOS (well maybe until they played Incarnate Word).

[JustBuzzin]

I just think even if you see Coop as a souped up Franz that's an awesome prospect. The fact is most 17-year old 6'10" Freshmen are not averaging > 20% AST%. And against a top 10 SOS (well maybe until they played Incarnate Word).

He's not Franz my man.

Franz a pure scorer. Flagg hasn't shown that kind of ability. Again he needs to improve his jumpshot to get to that kind of player. You can't be Franz when you suck at 3pt shooting and don't have a consistent jump shot.