Jonas Valanciunas in 2012 Draft:

Post #41 » by **gswhoops** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:15 pm

I think he'd be in the second tier of guys, in the mix to go as high as 2 or as low as 10.

tidho · Post #42 » by **tidho** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:12 pm

JV was never in the discussion for the top two picks last year.
That was a two horse race all the way.

As others have mentioned I've read reports that JV regressed a bit and isn't regarded as highly as he was last year. He's still a great prospect, his status just hasn't grown over the course of the year.
That's not unlike Barnes, Lamb, and Jones. Guys that each could have gone at least as high as JV did in last year's draft but now reasonably could each be out of the top 5.

MalonesElbows · Post #43 » by **MalonesElbows** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:32 am

I think he could go 2nd. MKG, Drummond, and Beal all have just as many red flags as Jonas. MKG can't shoot and is slightly undersized as a SF. Ditto with Beal as a SG. Drummond tried to cheat by wearing 2" high heels to inflate his height and reach. In actual playing shoes JV has 3 inches of reach on him.

Post #44 » by **UGA Hayes** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:42 am

I read the raps thread earlier in the year after the fifba championship and got the sense that he wasn't making the preogress they hoped for whatever reason (i.e coaching, etc). Did he finish the year well?

Elastic · Post #45 » by **Elastic** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:01 am

Dr Mufasa wrote:
Muizha wrote:
erudite23 wrote:I don't think he's as appealing this year as he was last. He's a year older and did not show to be appreciably better in his league games. Most people are judging off of the U-19 and European Championships--which he was admittedly terrific in--but I think he has some issues that make me pause. I like him, don't love him. He could go 2, I think you could also justify letting him fall to 8th or so. To me, he's on par with a prospect like Drummond.

And Davis is judged by his ncaa games, where he plays against other kids, while Valanciunas played the whole season in Europe against grown ass men, some of them former nba players (and even present nba players during the lockout). Not saying he will for sure end up better than Davis, but he would dominate the NCAA's.

The NCAA is considered better competition than the Lithuanian league. The Euroleague released these rankings a few weeks ago

1. Spanish League
2. United League (international)
-- NBADL
3. Greek League
4. Italian League
5. Turkish League
-- NCAA (top 25 teams)
6. French League
7. German League
8. Lithuanian League
9. Adriatic League (international)
10. Belgian League
11. Czech League
12. Ukrainian League
13. Israeli League
14. Polish League
15. Bulgarian League
16. Dutch League

Jonas' Europe production is extremely overstated. First off, the Lithuanian league and the U19 tournament is terrible competition. Secondly as soon as the competition picked up for the tournament to get into the Euroleague, he played bad.

I believe Jonas will be one of the biggest draft busts of all time. I let some people convince for a year that he wasn't so bad of a prospect, but when I went back to download a handful of recent Lithuanian games, he really screamed to me again a non NBA talent. To me he's an unathletic Javale McGee. To me his lack of awareness of the court and awkwardness is McGee esque. He produces in the LKL because nobody's close to him in size. He has better hands than McGee and shoots FTs better, but in terms of their style of play, the way they throw themselves around physically, he produces in the same way to me. The way his blocked shots don't reflect just how bad he is defensively also is McGee esque. I believe when Jonas gets into the NBA it will be apparent that the game simply moves too fast for him mentally. My feeling is that to make it in the NBA requires a certain Mendoza line of "feel for the game". It's just that since just about every NBA player has it, we don't realize how important it is, until guys like Thabeet and Alexander come in and they don't. When I watch videos of eg. Lithuanian league games, the thing that stands out to me is how little feel the players have. They can do some things like shoot and drive but the fluidity they play at individually isn't NBA level. To me Jonas isn't only at that level, he's below it. He looks awkward and slow thinking/reacting and lacking feel for the game even vs Lithuania league competition.

Check out this video from last year, it matches perfectly what I see every time I watch a Jonas game.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS_-RMKoX9Y[/youtube]

Here's a recent game if you have a lot of time. To me nothing about Jonas in this game (or ones like it) indicates he's more of an NBA talent than the other guys on the court. The difference is he's taller, but since he can't jump (he will have one of the worst verticals in the NBA) the impact of his length is minimized.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKZ7H1wTODY[/youtube]

Here is the official release for the rankings:

http://www.euroleague.net/news/i/97882/ ... n-criteria

Mufasa, do you find the NBDL and NCAA mentioned here? I dont. So please stop using fiction instead of facts.

boogie-reke · Post #46 » by **boogie-reke** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:30 am

gswhoops wrote:I think he'd be in the second tier of guys, in the mix to go as high as 2 or as low as 10.

DA_SCOUT · Post #47 » by **DA_SCOUT** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:41 pm

#2 easily. Unless the team doesn't want to draft a C.
Those who are saying 7-12 have no idea who he is and are just trolling.

mrmsix6 · Post #48 » by **mrmsix6** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:54 pm

DA_SCOUT wrote:#2 easily. Unless the team doesn't want to draft a C.
Those who are saying 7-12 have no idea who he is and are just trolling.

-signed, every hopeful Raptors fan

RebelWithACause · Post #49 » by **RebelWithACause** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:29 pm

Easily no. 2 this year

Also think Montejunas would be top10 this year!

fredericklove · Post #50 » by **fredericklove** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:53 pm

Why am I not surprise to see a notorious JV hater raps fan here? Cos I knew this would happen the moment I stepped into page 1.

Los Manos · Post #51 » by **Los Manos** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:45 pm

fredericklove wrote:Why am I not surprise to see a notorious JV hater raps fan here? Cos I knew this would happen the moment I stepped into page 1.

I like Mufasa but really what is the point at this stage of challenging his own assessment of JV. He's put himself on an island and we can just revisit this in a year and see how his scouting faired. That he thinks the NBDL is a better league than the Greek league for example is hilarious. Can't get into a debate when someone starts making up the facts.

Let him believe what he likes, I just don't buy into a word that he says and think he is laughably off base with the majority of his assessments of JV. Let him believe he will be one of the biggest busts of all time with atrocious athleticism and no basketball awareness or IQ. That I think he is entirely on the wrong end of the scale in all of his reports is irrelevant to him. So let's just see how JV handles the transition to the NBA and then we can all either laud Mufasa as a scouting genius or mock his views mercilessly until he is forced to change his username.

Post #52 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:26 am

I'd probably still take a chance on Drummond over him. I'm a risk taker when it comes to trying to grab elite talent. I'd definitely take him 3rd this year though. Really like him.

Sabas11 · Post #53 » by **Sabas11** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:58 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:He produces in the LKL because nobody's close to him in size.

Although I personnally believe Valanciunas will be very good, I can see why others think will be a bust. But you shouldn't make up facts to support your arguments, it makes you sound irrational at best and dishonest at worst.

I don't want to go through all your analysis, but the quoted part is the easiest of the many factual errors to debunk

Players in the LKL in 2011/2012 that are as tall or taller (6-11/210 cm) than JV, as per the league's official measurements. All heights are in cm.

Robertas Javtokas - 211 cm
Omar Samhan - 211 cm
Predrag Samardziski - 214 cm
Ignas Ramasauskas - 211 cm
Romanas Gumeniukas - 220 cm
Raitis Grafs - 210 cm
Luke Bonner (did you know Matt Bonner has a brother who also plays pro bball?) - 213 cm
Arturas Masiulis - 210 cm
Paulius Joneliunas - 211 cm
Karolis Petrukonis - 212 cm
Saulius Kuzminskas - 210 cm
Gediminas Zyle - 210 cm
Mindaugas Kupsas - 211 cm
Augustinas Vitas - 211 cm
Paulo Prestes - 211 cm

Mefisto · Post #54 » by **Mefisto** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:29 pm

Mufasa is a clown, who will be gone after NBA season starts. I wonder what new nickname he create? :lol:

thetrapman · Post #55 » by **thetrapman** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:49 pm

I still wish we (cavs) have taken JV over TT.

Mefisto · Post #56 » by **Mefisto** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:00 pm

thetrapman wrote:I still wish we (cavs) have taken JV over TT.

JV + Irwing = Rings

fredericklove · Post #57 » by **fredericklove** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:10 pm

Los Manos wrote:
fredericklove wrote:Why am I not surprise to see a notorious JV hater raps fan here? Cos I knew this would happen the moment I stepped into page 1.

I like Mufasa but really what is the point at this stage of challenging his own assessment of JV. He's put himself on an island and we can just revisit this in a year and see how his scouting faired. That he thinks the NBDL is a better league than the Greek league for example is hilarious. Can't get into a debate when someone starts making up the facts.

Let him believe what he likes, I just don't buy into a word that he says and think he is laughably off base with the majority of his assessments of JV. Let him believe he will be one of the biggest busts of all time with atrocious athleticism and no basketball awareness or IQ. That I think he is entirely on the wrong end of the scale in all of his reports is irrelevant to him. So let's just see how JV handles the transition to the NBA and then we can all either laud Mufasa as a scouting genius or mock his views mercilessly until he is forced to change his username.

Don't forget his sig bet with me on Val vs. Leonard next season on who has better PER, he's going to lose the bet and I know he's going to back off from the bet midway through the season :lol:

KembaWalker · Post #58 » by **KembaWalker** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:20 pm

Sabas11 wrote:
Dr Mufasa wrote:He produces in the LKL because nobody's close to him in size.

Although I personnally believe Valanciunas will be very good, I can see why others think will be a bust. But you shouldn't make up facts to support your arguments, it makes you sound irrational at best and dishonest at worst.

I don't want to go through all your analysis, but the quoted part is the easiest of the many factual errors to debunk

Players in the LKL in 2011/2012 that are as tall or taller (6-11/210 cm) than JV, as per the league's official measurements. All heights are in cm.

Robertas Javtokas - 211 cm
Omar Samhan - 211 cm
Predrag Samardziski - 214 cm
Ignas Ramasauskas - 211 cm
Romanas Gumeniukas - 220 cm
Raitis Grafs - 210 cm
Luke Bonner (did you know Matt Bonner has a brother who also plays pro bball?) - 213 cm
Arturas Masiulis - 210 cm
Paulius Joneliunas - 211 cm
Karolis Petrukonis - 212 cm
Saulius Kuzminskas - 210 cm
Gediminas Zyle - 210 cm
Mindaugas Kupsas - 211 cm
Augustinas Vitas - 211 cm
Paulo Prestes - 211 cm

If he's putting up decent numbers against that list theres no way he won't be a beast in the NBA

Sabas11 · Post #59 » by **Sabas11** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:50 pm

KembaWalker wrote:If he's putting up decent numbers against that list theres no way he won't be a beast in the NBA

Irrelevant. I was merely responding to this

Dr Mufasa wrote:He produces in the LKL because nobody's close to him in size.

The poster implies that JV is playing in a league completely devoid of big men, that he is basically the equivalent of Wilt playing against 6'6 dudes. This is blatantly false. The quality of big men is irrelevant to his claim. And for the record, they do not all suck (how would you know , you've never seen a single one of them play)

Moreover he then proceeds to compare JV to JaVale McGee, a player to which he is the polar opposite. McGee is 100% athleticism, 0% skills. JV is precocious in terms of basketball skills but lacks athleticism. The whole post does not make any sense.

Post #60 » by **moocow007** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:10 am

ElMaestro90 wrote:Easily no. 2 this year

Also think Montejunas would be top10 this year!

Motiejunas has actually made the type of jump that people thought Valanciunas would but didnt make. Motiejunas is more athletic and more skilled but the concern leading up to the 2011 draft was that he was too thig and didnt show enough dedication/intensity to his game. I think both have pretty much been debunked by how he played and looked this year. Rocket fans should be extremely excited about him.