Willie Cauley-Stein

[Negrodamus]

WCS absolutely has an offensive skill and that is the ability to finish around the rim. Some people don't consider that a skill but those people would be wrong. Earlier someone mentioned WCS being Reggie Evans on offense but that isn't even remotely true. Reggie Evans you can leave alone on the offensive end but WCS you have to keep a body on because if you don't he will get a lob around the rim. In this sense he is similar to Deandre Jordan. Jordan may not have a lot of offensive skills but because he can finish around the rim he has to covered. If you don't guard him then he will get easy buckets all game. Also the ability for a big to run the floor and get easy buckets is also skill.

Defensively the guy has it all. He can guard inside and outside and contests shots around the rim.

I don't know if you're just watching his highlight videos or what, but there was no other player I dreaded more with the ball in his hands than WCS. Yes, he can dunk alley oops. He can definitely dunk over a defender if he's caught out of position. If he's posting a guy up and gets the ball from 10 feet in, he was a complete liability. Zero touch; pretty much throwing the basketball in the vicinity of the basket. Contested dunks? Will most likely get fouled, but he will certainly not finish. I love Willie, but he was a complete liability on offense, ESPECIALLY around the rim. The fact that the offense could have worked it around and possibly gotten the ball to KAT (someone who is great at finishing around the rim) makes Willie a negative on offense. Luckily he could defend extremely well.

No one is expecting him to be a post player. I'm strictly talking about the fact that you can't just leave the guy alone on the offensive end because all he has to do is go towards the hoop and it is an easy lob for dunk. The clippers do not post up DJ either but he is very useful on the offensive end because whenever his defender leaves him it tends to turn into an easy 2 points. There is no reason that it can't be the same way with WCS.

Okay, well if you want to spend a top 15 pick on a player who is an alley oop threat on offense, then by all means.

[AQuintus]

Okay, well if you want to spend a top 15 pick on a player who is an alley oop threat on offense, then by all means.

There's more to basketball than just offense.

[Negrodamus]

Okay, well if you want to spend a top 15 pick on a player who is an alley oop threat on offense, then by all means.

There's more to basketball than just offense.

There sure is, that's the only reason we are talking about WCS right now. The question is how much do you value a great defender who is anemic on offense?

[RightToCensor]

There sure is, that's the only reason we are talking about WCS right now. The question is how much do you value a great defender who is anemic on offense?

I value Robin Lopez over Brook Lopez on the Houston Rockets.

If you don't have a player that can anchor your defense then you're not gonna win games. If you're in this mindset that once a player is drafted in the lottery he's gonna be the primary offensive option then you need to wake up.

[AQuintus]

The question is how much do you value a great defender who is anemic on offense?

We shouldn't value him any less than a great offensive player that is anemic on defense (i.e. Jahlil Okafor).

[JDR720]

great defenders can still be a positive (or at least neutral) even if they aren't scoring. if an offensive player isn't scoring well while still not stopping the other team from scoring they are a complete negative.

[FargoWolf]

The question is how much do you value a great defender who is anemic on offense?

We shouldn't value him any less than a great offensive player that is anemic on defense (i.e. Jahlil Okafor).

Give Okafor three years in college and he probably becomes an adequate defender.

[theonlyclutch]

I don't know if you're just watching his highlight videos or what, but there was no other player I dreaded more with the ball in his hands than WCS. Yes, he can dunk alley oops. He can definitely dunk over a defender if he's caught out of position. If he's posting a guy up and gets the ball from 10 feet in, he was a complete liability. Zero touch; pretty much throwing the basketball in the vicinity of the basket. Contested dunks? Will most likely get fouled, but he will certainly not finish. I love Willie, but he was a complete liability on offense, ESPECIALLY around the rim. The fact that the offense could have worked it around and possibly gotten the ball to KAT (someone who is great at finishing around the rim) makes Willie a negative on offense. Luckily he could defend extremely well.

No one is expecting him to be a post player. I'm strictly talking about the fact that you can't just leave the guy alone on the offensive end because all he has to do is go towards the hoop and it is an easy lob for dunk. The clippers do not post up DJ either but he is very useful on the offensive end because whenever his defender leaves him it tends to turn into an easy 2 points. There is no reason that it can't be the same way with WCS.

Okay, well if you want to spend a top 15 pick on a player who is an alley oop threat on offense, then by all means.

Well, Nerlens Noel, a similar player, got picked 6th despite:
[*] Questions about his ability to add muscle to a skinny frame
[*] Post defense being a huge concern at the NBA level because of the above
[*] Injury concerns (which are red lags for big men, subsequently missed an entire year of playing because of it)
[*] Even more raw offensive game than WCS displayed this year
and he's been arguably worth it, so it's certainly not surprising to see WCS projected as a top 15 pick.

[cedric76]

insider people?

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2015/inside ... pro-future

The analytics perspective

Cauley-Stein's statistics suggest he's going to be an outstanding NBA defender. He joins five predecessors in my college database (including fellow Wildcats Anthony Davis and Nerlens Noel) who projected to have a steal rate better than 1.5 percent and a block rate better than 4.0 percent. The one concern about Cauley-Stein at the defensive end is his rebounding. The only 7-footer in my database with a lower projected defensive rebound rate was Cody Zeller.

[No-Man]

Okay, well if you want to spend a top 15 pick on a player who is an alley oop threat on offense, then by all means.

There's more to basketball than just offense.

he isnt going to translate defensively, he has no heart, is not smart at all, has not the ideal level of strength and hasnt played a pro NBA setting type of defensive scheme in his whole career, and the kid is already a junior.
people assumng he is going to be an awesome defender because of his athletic tools are just shortsighted.
he will be a back-up big at best, and thats if he makes it.
out of the top15, from 15-25, that makes sense, and should be his range, but he doesnt belong in the lotto.

[Ruzious]

He's the kind of player I'd strategize signing after his rookie contract years are over. He might make those DeAndre Jordan type gradual improvements over the years. But I wouldn't draft him - I'd let another team go through his growing pains. This was my thought on Meyers Leonard, as well. Very different types of 7 footers - but both need to learn to be pros.

[Negrodamus]

There sure is, that's the only reason we are talking about WCS right now. The question is how much do you value a great defender who is anemic on offense?

I value Robin Lopez over Brook Lopez on the Houston Rockets.

If you don't have a player that can anchor your defense then you're not gonna win games. If you're in this mindset that once a player is drafted in the lottery he's gonna be the primary offensive option then you need to wake up.

Wake up?

I'm confused. How did you glean "primary offensive option" from anything I said? I didn't even allude to that. All I said was that he needs to be passable on offense for me to take him with a top 15 pick. He is not that at the moment. If teams think they can make him even a minor threat on the offensive end, then the pick was justified. I just haven't seen it yet.

[Negrodamus]

No one is expecting him to be a post player. I'm strictly talking about the fact that you can't just leave the guy alone on the offensive end because all he has to do is go towards the hoop and it is an easy lob for dunk. The clippers do not post up DJ either but he is very useful on the offensive end because whenever his defender leaves him it tends to turn into an easy 2 points. There is no reason that it can't be the same way with WCS.

Okay, well if you want to spend a top 15 pick on a player who is an alley oop threat on offense, then by all means.

Well, Nerlens Noel, a similar player, got picked 6th despite:
[*] Questions about his ability to add muscle to a skinny frame
[*] Post defense being a huge concern at the NBA level because of the above
[*] Injury concerns (which are red lags for big men, subsequently missed an entire year of playing because of it)
[*] Even more raw offensive game than WCS displayed this year
and he's been arguably worth it, so it's certainly not surprising to see WCS projected as a top 15 pick.

Nerlens was the best defensive prospect I've ever seen in the college game as a freshman. Quite the difference from WCS who took 2 additional years to come into his own.

Nerlens is also more athletic, has a quicker first step, and the Sixers were able to completely rebuild his offensive game during his year off. We were also tanking all this year, so he was showcased (as much as he should be) on the offensive end and was able to work through his mistakes. A team is going to get a junior WCS and they might not have the patience than the Sixers had these past two years. WCS also won't be the investment that Nerlens was.

[JDR720]

Willie doesn't need to score to be a good NBA player, he should be able to get close to 10ppg from lobs and putbacks.

only 8 centers in the NBA average more than 13ppg this season and only 18 average 10+ ppg.

that said, i wouldn't want Charlotte to draft him. we can just keep Biz who is just 1 year older and currently a better player.

[Negrodamus]

Willie doesn't need to score to be a good NBA player, he should be able to get close to 10ppg from lobs and putbacks.

only 8 centers in the NBA average more than 13ppg this season and only 18 average 10+ ppg.

that said, i wouldn't want Charlotte to draft him. we can just keep Biz who is just 1 year older and currently a better player.

I know you're not directing this to me, but I'll leave my input here as it relates to what I've said.

What you said is not wrong. In fact, I pretty much agree with everything you said here except for the 10ppg (I think that's a bit generous).

I think WCS can and will be in the NBA for a long time, but I'm still not taking him where he's projected to go in some of these mock drafts. The difference between him and Jarvis Varnado is 3 inches and the athletic ability to guard the perimeter and one less year of college. Otherwise, offensively, they are the same person.

[Worm Guts]

The difference between him and Jarvis Varnado is 3 inches and the athletic ability to guard the perimeter.

That's a lot of difference.

[Negrodamus]

The difference between him and Jarvis Varnado is 3 inches and the athletic ability to guard the perimeter.

That's a lot of difference.

Sure, on defense. I'm not disagreeing that he's a great defensive prospect. However, one dimensional players often don't pan out. I really hope he does pan out. I'm a fan of his, but I'm also realistic of his potential.

[No-Man]

The difference between him and Jarvis Varnado is 3 inches and the athletic ability to guard the perimeter.

That's a lot of difference.

Sure, on defense. I'm not disagreeing that he's a great defensive prospect. However, one dimensional players often don't pan out. I really hope he does pan out. I'm a fan of his, but I'm also realistic of his potential.

he is not a great defensive prospect, Noel was, that is why he was worthy of a top5 pick, only for his D.
Willie is not.

[Negrodamus]

That's a lot of difference.

Sure, on defense. I'm not disagreeing that he's a great defensive prospect. However, one dimensional players often don't pan out. I really hope he does pan out. I'm a fan of his, but I'm also realistic of his potential.

he is not a great defensive prospect, Noel was, that is why he was worthy of a top5 pick, only for his D.
Willie is not.

K.

Our previous discussion shows me you can't rationally talk about UK and its players, so I'm not going to get into this with you.

[Wizop]

I heard he has some growing up to do. the good news for him is that 7 footers who can run usually get all the time to develop that they need.