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clyde21 wrote:

Coeur wrote:

clyde21 wrote:
small? Bruno is a legit 6'10 with a 7-4 winspan and 9-1 standing reach.

Adams, nurkic, embiid, gobert... yeah small. Just wondering. Not aware of the wingspan. He has big arms but is prototype pf size.

so if he's not Joel Embiid size he's small?

what about Montrezl Harrell and Domantas Sabonis?

yeah both undersized guys.


Isn’t it clear Harrell isn’t a starting center? He a small ball center/backup type right? Sabonis is a pf sized player


That’s why my question about Bruno is he legit center or a small ball niche role.

Coeur wrote:

clyde21 wrote:

Coeur wrote:Adams, nurkic, embiid, gobert... yeah small. Just wondering. Not aware of the wingspan. He has big arms but is prototype pf size.

so if he's not Joel Embiid size he's small?

what about Montrezl Harrell and Domantas Sabonis?

yeah both undersized guys.


Isn’t it clear Harrell isn’t a starting center? He a small ball center/backup type right? Sabonis is a pf sized player


That’s why my question about Bruno is he legit center or a small ball niche role.

He’s more of a back up center right now, but he can be a starter in the future, he just needs to get stronger. But he’ll be able to score with his footwork and he’ll be able to defend. The issue will be boxing out, avoiding fouls and getting boards. To be a starter he’ll have to improve, but 6’10 with a 7’4 wingspan isn’t too small, it’s just not an outlier and he doesn’t have outlier athleticism or speed. So I think he’s more of a solid starter, but to me he’s a scorer who can defend in the paint and those kind of players are better coming off the bench.

Coeur wrote:

clyde21 wrote:

Coeur wrote:Adams, nurkic, embiid, gobert... yeah small. Just wondering. Not aware of the wingspan. He has big arms but is prototype pf size.

so if he's not Joel Embiid size he's small?

what about Montrezl Harrell and Domantas Sabonis?

yeah both undersized guys.


Isn’t it clear Harrell isn’t a starting center? He a small ball center/backup type right? Sabonis is a pf sized player


That’s why my question about Bruno is he legit center or a small ball niche role.

i know that Sabonis and Harrell are considered 'undersized' and they're still producing at a high level, and Bruno is bigger than both of them. i'm just letting you know that there's a lot of room between Embiid size and 'undersized'.

again. 6'10, 7-4 ws, 9-1 sr is far from undersized. Bruno has his faults but size isn't one of them.

doordoor123 wrote:

Ruzious wrote:

Coeur wrote:I get worried a lot about drafting guys to these new age “small ball” positions. Is this guy a small ball center or can he play legit center or legit power forward.


I really like him as a center in today’s game. Until he matches up with the real legit sized centers. And that list is actually growing not shrinking right now.

He's not small-ball, he's a legit center - probably stronger than most NBA centers. He does have a ways to go in developing his skills, but he can over-power small-ball bigs, and he can out-quick bigger centers. But when he's going 1 on 1, he's gotta be quicker in decision-making - otherwise, it's too easy for a second defender to come and strip the ball from him - a problem Okafor had. He's a very good foul shooter, so there is hope for him developing a good perimeter shot.

A couple things with this. First, I actually don’t think he’s very strong. He gets pretty abused by stronger guys and gets less rebounds in those games. Second, he’s actually great at passing out of doubles.

That's interesting considering I've watched most of MD games his 2 seasons there. I'd really like to know exactly who you thought physically... abused him.

And while I won't say he's bad at passing out of double-teams, he had a terrible time with that in the last several games of the season. It was one of the key topics talked about after several of their losses. Turgeon - who rarely criticises his players - even blamed him, because Turgeon wanted to expoit the double-teams and failed miserably in several of those games.

clyde21 wrote:

Coeur wrote:

clyde21 wrote:
so if he's not Joel Embiid size he's small?

what about Montrezl Harrell and Domantas Sabonis?

yeah both undersized guys.


Isn’t it clear Harrell isn’t a starting center? He a small ball center/backup type right? Sabonis is a pf sized player


That’s why my question about Bruno is he legit center or a small ball niche role.

i know that Sabonis and Harrell are considered 'undersized' and they're still producing at a high level, and Bruno is bigger than both of them. i'm just letting you know that there's a lot of room between Embiid size and 'undersized'.

again. 6'10, 7-4 ws, 9-1 sr is far from undersized. Bruno has his faults but size isn't one of them.

This is kinda wierd - and it's not just here that I've heard people say that size is an issue. He's probably around 250 libs with very low body fat and big broad shoulders. He clearly has size and strength. Not sure what people are looking at.

I cannot wait for the team work outs to see who slides up the Hawks big board like Trae did last season. Bruno is one player I am hedging towards if the Hawks end up with the Mavs pick.

I think Bruno can be good and also not that valuable, he is kinda the type of player you want to draft late, not early

Jarrett Allen and Bam are good examples, solid pros with probably solid careers coming, but I would not really draft them higher than they went (Bam actually lower), it's basically the same story for Fernando (different player obviously)

Fischella wrote:I think Bruno can be good and also not that valuable, he is kinda the type of player you want to draft late, not early

Jarrett Allen and Bam are good examples, solid pros with probably solid careers coming, but I would not really draft them higher than they went (Bam actually lower), it's basically the same story for Fernando (different player obviously)

I disagree with those examples. Centers take the longest to develop because they have to gain weight, learn to take and handle contact, need chemistry with their point guards, need to learn the nuances like directing a defense around them. Guys like DeAndre Jordan looked like those Bam Adebayo/Jarrett Allen type guys at the same age and eventually became one of the best centers in the league in his prime. Even guys like Robin and Brook Lopez are better now than they were the first few years in the league. Those guys have time and sure Bruno might be like that when he enters the league, but he has time to get better and figure it out just as much as those other guys.

Centers take the less to develop, it's actually been proven statistically

Fischella wrote:Centers take the less to develop, it's actually been proven statistically

Show me, because as long as I’ve been doing this, as long as centers aren’t physical freaks, they take the longest to develop. The issue is that a lot of them deal with injuries and have their careers cut short.

Buzzard wrote:I cannot wait for the team work outs to see who slides up the Hawks big board like Trae did last season. Bruno is one player I am hedging towards if the Hawks end up with the Mavs pick.

He's really good prospect but I doubt he is taken that high. I think 20th is his ceiling in this draft.

I think Bruno’s value should be around 16-25 depending on who slips out of the lottery. Someone picking him 16 is probably more like a playoff or fringe-playoff team trying to avoid a riskier pick. This happens all the time around 20, where a team goes for a safe center.

Bruno is a really good late first pick for a team like Milwaukee looking to get some size/rebounding on the inside, but his potential is capped as long as he's not a sophisticated offensive player or passer of the ball.

He still thinks too much on the court, he's gonna have to develop the mental side of the game even more to really be able to reach his defensive potential but if he does I can see him being a pretty damn good defensive player who supplements it with a decent rim-running game.

I think top 20 or 22 picks is a bit on the higher side of him though. I just want a little more out of my centers that high.

Fischella wrote:I think Bruno can be good and also not that valuable, he is kinda the type of player you want to draft late, not early

Jarrett Allen and Bam are good examples, solid pros with probably solid careers coming, but I would not really draft them higher than they went (Bam actually lower), it's basically the same story for Fernando (different player obviously)

Jarrett Allen would probably go top 5 if that drafted happened again. He is one of the most promising young centers in the league right now

Barnsey wrote:

Fischella wrote:I think Bruno can be good and also not that valuable, he is kinda the type of player you want to draft late, not early

Jarrett Allen and Bam are good examples, solid pros with probably solid careers coming, but I would not really draft them higher than they went (Bam actually lower), it's basically the same story for Fernando (different player obviously)

Jarrett Allen would probably go top 5 if that drafted happened again. He is one of the most promising young centers in the league right now

Yeah, no, no chance

King Ken wrote:I don't know why, but these Maryland guys fit our system hella well around Trae. He might be an option as a developmental big.

I was right about this one. I kinda see why as well. Mark T recruits players with shooting touch, athleticism and size who play with a good feel for the flow of the game.

I like what Ruzious said like usual but doordoor123 has been spot on to me. Even from his time in SL, I seen exactly what he said. He gets abused by stronger guys, he struggles with boxing out, and rebounding outside of range in general. He rebounds when it's directly at him. Those Dwight Howard as an older player boards.

I do like the Harrell comparisons to a degree especially once he gets stronger but I don't think he is going to be that good at scoring off of PnR's like Harrell is. Maybe he does in time. It's possible of course.

That said, Bruno passing for his position is ++. His defensive communication is ++.His defensive talent is +. He is really fast, especially in spurts. His ability to get his hands on the ball on defense is nice. His defense translates Day 1. He has nice skill on the ball with good footwork. He has a nice shooting touch as well. But all in all. Too weak at this level and doesn't have the freak athletic ability to overcome it at this stage. He is going to be a good NBA center one day but for now, he is a developmental big. G-League bound.

By too weak, Bruno is strong strength in positioning, hard to move off but in movement, he's weak and loses balance fairly quick. I see exactly what doordoor mean. It's gonna take sometime.

I would not expect him to be consistently effective in his rookie year - offensively or defensively, because of his lack of experience. Again, he grew up in Angola and is new to basketball. But there's nothing wrong with his strength. He's all man out there - built a lot like Bam Adebayo. He does have a great on-court attitude - hustles his arse off and is very active and communicative. He will have a game here or there when he looks like a phenom, but he's going to have trouble when teams focus on him - despite people talking about him being a plus passer, he's more likely going to turn it over than make any great passes. Don't get me wrong - he does have a lot of potential and should have gone higher in the draft, but it's going to take a while before he can be consistently effective.

Ruzious wrote:I would not expect him to be consistently effective in his rookie year - offensively or defensively, because of his lack of experience. Again, he grew up in Angola and is new to basketball. But there's nothing wrong with his strength. He's all man out there - built a lot like Bam Adebayo. He does have a great on-court attitude - hustles his arse off and is very active and communicative. He will have a game here or there when he looks like a phenom, but he's going to have trouble when teams focus on him - despite people talking about him being a plus passer, he's more likely going to turn it over than make any great passes. Don't get me wrong - he does have a lot of potential and should have gone higher in the draft, but it's going to take a while before he can be consistently effective.

He is built like Bam but he is not as strong like Bam as a prospect. He is strong in terms of stance, post defense and in his area. In that same manner, he is weak in movement meaning you can bump him off of the spot if both are you are going for a rebound and doesn't have explosiveness in traffic which Bam had and still has. I think the strength is an issue and it's something Atlanta or any team will have to work on with him. Harrell as a prospect had to lose 10-15 pounds. Bruno needs to gain 10-15 pounds and really work on his core.

I love everything else you wrote especially the consistency bit. The only thing is his passing is really really good for a center. While he has been turnover prone in college, a lot of those came out of high usage postups which he won't get much of in the NBA. What I like is his passing is diverse. He can pass at the top of the key, the perimeter, different spots, etc. He might not be Jokic but he has a chance to be a special passing big especially once he improves his range.

Bruno is a lot more skilled than he gets credit for , but the one issue I had with him at Maryland is that if he had a consistent motor he would be so much better.

Maybe it’s something he develops with age but he has to be more “mean” and physical, with the intention to dominate other bigs. He doesn’t use his physical tools to their max ability imo. For a player who coaches will mostly ask to be an energy guy , that’s what will get him on the floor.

clyde21 wrote:Bruno is a really good late first pick for a team like Milwaukee looking to get some size/rebounding on the inside, but his potential is capped as long as he's not a sophisticated offensive player or passer of the ball.

He still thinks too much on the court, he's gonna have to develop the mental side of the game even more to really be able to reach his defensive potential but if he does I can see him being a pretty damn good defensive player who supplements it with a decent rim-running game.

I think top 20 or 22 picks is a bit on the higher side of him though. I just want a little more out of my centers that high.

He seemed like a sure thing to me. That's why I liked him so much. I had Bruno number 8 on my big board but I base my big boards on safety before potential.