Amen & Ausar Thompson - Potential 2022 NBA Draft Guys

[Hal14]

just curious what makes Pfieffer more informed or 'less biased'?

He's still just a random dude on draft twitter who does this for free

He's been leading the Amen hype train on draft twitter since last draft cycle and for the last 6 months

Read on Twitter

He literally has Amen as the 5th best prospect in the world currently, of any age.
If some of us here are "biased" against him, his takes are certainly biased toward him

How is he biased? I'm sure lots of people have Amen ranked that high - some might even have him ranked higher.

Also, he tweeted that 3 months ago. So who knows, he might have Amen ranked lower now..

He is biased because his agenda for the past year is that Amen is a 'generational' prospect and all of his viewpoints are filtered through that lens, he made his mind up on that a year ago

Watch on YouTube

Last year in this video he said he'd consider Amen with the 1st pick in the 2022 draft

Watch on YouTube

given the update vid from a few months ago his opinion hasn't changed

if you don't consider that bias, fine, but its pretty hard to then say people here are biased against them because they don't see the twins in that same light

It's also possible that he was right about Amen a year ago and he was right about him again 3 months ago. Again, it's not like he's the only one who has been high on Amen.

[The Moose]

How is he biased? I'm sure lots of people have Amen ranked that high - some might even have him ranked higher.

Also, he tweeted that 3 months ago. So who knows, he might have Amen ranked lower now..

He is biased because his agenda for the past year is that Amen is a 'generational' prospect and all of his viewpoints are filtered through that lens, he made his mind up on that a year ago

Watch on YouTube

Last year in this video he said he'd consider Amen with the 1st pick in the 2022 draft

Watch on YouTube

given the update vid from a few months ago his opinion hasn't changed

if you don't consider that bias, fine, but its pretty hard to then say people here are biased against them because they don't see the twins in that same light

It's also possible that he was right about Amen a year ago and he was right about him again 3 months ago. Again, it's not like he's the only one who has been high on Amen.

Of course he could be right, just like anybody who is down on them right now could be?

I asked how he is far less biased/ and far more informed than the people who are low on the Thompsons in this thread. Is the implication really that that those of us who are low on the twins are simply biased and uninformed, but those are who are exceedingly high on them aren't?

[Hal14]

He is biased because his agenda for the past year is that Amen is a 'generational' prospect and all of his viewpoints are filtered through that lens, he made his mind up on that a year ago

Watch on YouTube

Last year in this video he said he'd consider Amen with the 1st pick in the 2022 draft

Watch on YouTube

given the update vid from a few months ago his opinion hasn't changed

if you don't consider that bias, fine, but its pretty hard to then say people here are biased against them because they don't see the twins in that same light

It's also possible that he was right about Amen a year ago and he was right about him again 3 months ago. Again, it's not like he's the only one who has been high on Amen.

Of course he could be right, just like anybody who is down on them right now could be?

I asked how he is far less biased/ and far more informed than the people who are low on the Thompsons in this thread. Is the implication really that that those of us who are low on the twins are simply biased and uninformed, but those are who are exceedingly high on them aren't?

Um, because the posts on here against the twins have displayed basically zero research or basketball insight, while the Chucking Darts podcast episode, the Ben Pfeifer vids and the Box And One scouting reports all displayed tremendous amount of research and basketball insight.

I mean, I posted the Box and One mid season scouting reports on the twins. There was not one single response by another poster on here to those scouting reports that showed any basketball knowledge whatsoever - nor did anyone on here show that they actually read the scouting reports or watched the vids embedded in them.

The only reply by a poster on here to those scouting reports was a clown who took a lame shot at the author of the pieces.

Then I post a vid showing an insane play that Ausar made, and the tweet contained a caption by a scout who broke down why that play by Ausar was so special. What response did that post get from posters on here? Crickets.

Then I post the Chucking Darts podcast, where 2 scouts broke down the twins and their games for over an hour - extremely insightful, in depth stuff. What did posters on here have to say about it? 2 posters made dumb comments poking fun at the scout's LinkedIn profile.

Lastly, all of the people who have written positive things about the twins (myself, Adam Spinella, Ben Pfeifer, Chuck from Chucking Darts) have also acknowledged their drawbacks. A few posts back, I even said how I dropped the twins down a few spots on my board cause I was underwhelmed with how they played in the last 2 games vs the Dreamerz. Spinella always points out both pros and cons with prospects. On the Chucking Darts podcast, Ben was certainly pumping the twins tires, while Chuck was pretty skeptical, which made for a balanced discussion - and Ben acknowledged some of the twins drawback..

Meanwhile, there's a few posters on here who literally don't have anything positive at all to say about the twins - only negative things.

So who do you think is more likely to be biased?

[The Moose]

It's also possible that he was right about Amen a year ago and he was right about him again 3 months ago. Again, it's not like he's the only one who has been high on Amen.

Of course he could be right, just like anybody who is down on them right now could be?

I asked how he is far less biased/ and far more informed than the people who are low on the Thompsons in this thread. Is the implication really that that those of us who are low on the twins are simply biased and uninformed, but those are who are exceedingly high on them aren't?

Um, because the posts on here against the twins have displayed basically zero research or basketball insight, while the Chucking Darts podcast episode, the Ben Pfeifer vids and the Box And One scouting reports all displayed tremendous amount of research and basketball insight.

I mean, I posted the Box and One mid season scouting reports on the twins. There was not one single response by another poster on here to those scouting reports that showed any basketball knowledge whatsoever - nor did anyone on here show that they actually read the scouting reports or watched the vids embedded in them.

The only reply by a poster on here to those scouting reports was a clown who took a lame shot at the author of the pieces.

Then I post a vid showing an insane play that Ausar made, and the tweet contained a caption by a scout who broke down why that play by Ausar was so special. What response did that post get from posters on here? Crickets.

Then I post the Chucking Darts podcast, where 2 scouts broke down the twins and their games for over an hour - extremely insightful, in depth stuff. What did posters on here have to say about it? 2 posters made dumb comments poking fun at the scout's LinkedIn profile.

Well the crux of the issue, for me at least, is that I feel drafting sophomore aged guards who are not good shooters, (one of which being essentially a non shooter at this point) and not good overall scorers in general in the top 5 is basically a no-go 99% of the time. In order for that player to become worthy of that pick, they have to either provide tremendous impact via other aspects of the game or dramatically improve their shooting.

Just focusing on Amen because he seems to be a lot of these guys favourite. He is really, really bad at shooting and I feel like it's getting swept under the rug way too easily. Its a rough example because they obviously aren't playing in the same league (though I would argue they are playing in a far easier comp) but there has only been 2 NCAA 1st round picks since 2008 who were 6'6 or shorter(rough filter for guards) who have matched Amen's current figures of sub 25% 3pt and sub 70% ft, and they were Elfrid Payton and Tony Wroten.

It seems as those who are super high on them think that their athleticism is so overwhelming they will just be unstoppable forces as drivers ala Zion, though the problem is that they aren't even unstoppable forces in the OTE league.

The last 3 games he's played 30+ minutes in (2 games against the only other decent team in OTE and the Winston Salem Christian high school team) he's averaged 12ppg in 36.5 minutes per game, going 0-11 from 3. If a ball handler isn't able to be an effective scorer in todays game, their ancillary skills, like Amen's on ball playmaking/passing, become a lot less useful.

And yes Amen can make some nice passes off the dribble, either hand , tough angles, but he also throws a lot of bad passes and careless turnovers, I don't think his playmaking is anything game changing by itself.

Anyway, I'm not even saying it's out of the question they turn out to be good players, I just don't see how its possible to justify having Amen and Ausar so high outside of 'just trust me bro, watch this highlight clip'.
Neither of them were top 20 recruits in HS, they've spent the last 2 years in low level comp while others in their class have played ncaa ball, they've looked fairly mediocre against the only competitive team in this comp, and we're suddenly supposed to be assuming they are just easy top 5 picks because... of their flashes in highlight clips? I mean it's certainly not based on their production, because as I've already said, their production is essentially impossible to contextualise relative to draft standards.

I've been lost as to how they jumped from the position they were in 2 years ago to top 5 guys based on their OTE play.

There has only been 16 teams in the history of the NBA draft to have two top 5 picks playing at the same time, I find it hard to believe the OTE City Reapers have a team of that calibre

[CptCrunch]

Neither of them were top 20 recruits in HS, they've spent the last 2 years in low level comp while others in their class have played ncaa ball, they've looked fairly mediocre against the only competitive team in this comp, and we're suddenly supposed to be assuming they are just easy top 5 picks because... of their flashes in highlight clips? I mean it's certainly not based on their production, because as I've already said, their production is essentially impossible to contextualise relative to draft standards.

I've been lost as to how they jumped from the position they were in 2 years ago to top 5 guys based on their OTE play.

Great point. A similar prospect would be Sharpe who is an elite NBA athlete, maybe one tier below the Thompsons, who sat out for a year.

For Sharpe, he was a recruiting service ranked #1 prospect after dominating summer basketball against top 5 star kids his age at the Nike's Peach Jam.

Amen was last #22 ESPN, #31 247Sport, #38 Rivals before turning pro. Somehow sitting out 2 years in OTE increases your draft stocks.

[Hal14]

Neither of them were top 20 recruits in HS, they've spent the last 2 years in low level comp while others in their class have played ncaa ball, they've looked fairly mediocre against the only competitive team in this comp, and we're suddenly supposed to be assuming they are just easy top 5 picks because... of their flashes in highlight clips? I mean it's certainly not based on their production, because as I've already said, their production is essentially impossible to contextualise relative to draft standards.

I've been lost as to how they jumped from the position they were in 2 years ago to top 5 guys based on their OTE play.

Great point. A similar prospect would be Sharpe who is an elite NBA athlete, maybe one tier below the Thompsons, who sat out for a year.

For Sharpe, he was a recruiting service ranked #1 prospect after dominating summer basketball against top 5 star kids his age at the Nike's Peach Jam.

Amen was last #22 ESPN, #31 247Sport, #38 Rivals before turning pro. Somehow sitting out 2 years in OTE increases your draft stocks.

Relying on rivals, ESPN and 247sport rankings from 2 years ago as the basis for your argument..

I suppose that means you have Dillon Mitchell ranked 20 spots ahead of Jett Howard, too?

This was last updated June 2021, which is so outdated it's not even really worth mentioning, but ESPN has Amen as a 5 star recruit: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/243378/amen-thompson

The twins have clearly both gotten much better since June 2021..

[ItsDanger]

Their individual workouts are going to be huge for their draft stock. Will be about 20.5 yrs old draft day, poor competition? These 2 are total wildcards IMO.

[Funcrusher]

Of course he could be right, just like anybody who is down on them right now could be?

I asked how he is far less biased/ and far more informed than the people who are low on the Thompsons in this thread. Is the implication really that that those of us who are low on the twins are simply biased and uninformed, but those are who are exceedingly high on them aren't?

Um, because the posts on here against the twins have displayed basically zero research or basketball insight, while the Chucking Darts podcast episode, the Ben Pfeifer vids and the Box And One scouting reports all displayed tremendous amount of research and basketball insight.

I mean, I posted the Box and One mid season scouting reports on the twins. There was not one single response by another poster on here to those scouting reports that showed any basketball knowledge whatsoever - nor did anyone on here show that they actually read the scouting reports or watched the vids embedded in them.

The only reply by a poster on here to those scouting reports was a clown who took a lame shot at the author of the pieces.

Then I post a vid showing an insane play that Ausar made, and the tweet contained a caption by a scout who broke down why that play by Ausar was so special. What response did that post get from posters on here? Crickets.

Then I post the Chucking Darts podcast, where 2 scouts broke down the twins and their games for over an hour - extremely insightful, in depth stuff. What did posters on here have to say about it? 2 posters made dumb comments poking fun at the scout's LinkedIn profile.

Well the crux of the issue, for me at least, is that I feel drafting sophomore aged guards who are not good shooters, (one of which being essentially a non shooter at this point) and not good overall scorers in general in the top 5 is basically a no-go 99% of the time. In order for that player to become worthy of that pick, they have to either provide tremendous impact via other aspects of the game or dramatically improve their shooting.

Just focusing on Amen because he seems to be a lot of these guys favourite. He is really, really bad at shooting and I feel like it's getting swept under the rug way too easily. Its a rough example because they obviously aren't playing in the same league (though I would argue they are playing in a far easier comp) but there has only been 2 NCAA 1st round picks since 2008 who were 6'6 or shorter(rough filter for guards) who have matched Amen's current figures of sub 25% 3pt and sub 70% ft, and they were Elfrid Payton and Tony Wroten.

It seems as those who are super high on them think that their athleticism is so overwhelming they will just be unstoppable forces as drivers ala Zion, though the problem is that they aren't even unstoppable forces in the OTE league.

The last 3 games he's played 30+ minutes in (2 games against the only other decent team in OTE and the Winston Salem Christian high school team) he's averaged 12ppg in 36.5 minutes per game, going 0-11 from 3. If a ball handler isn't able to be an effective scorer in todays game, their ancillary skills, like Amen's on ball playmaking/passing, become a lot less useful.

And yes Amen can make some nice passes off the dribble, either hand , tough angles, but he also throws a lot of bad passes and careless turnovers, I don't think his playmaking is anything game changing by itself.

Anyway, I'm not even saying it's out of the question they turn out to be good players, I just don't see how its possible to justify having Amen and Ausar so high outside of 'just trust me bro, watch this highlight clip'.
Neither of them were top 20 recruits in HS, they've spent the last 2 years in low level comp while others in their class have played ncaa ball, they've looked fairly mediocre against the only competitive team in this comp, and we're suddenly supposed to be assuming they are just easy top 5 picks because... of their flashes in highlight clips? I mean it's certainly not based on their production, because as I've already said, their production is essentially impossible to contextualise relative to draft standards.

I've been lost as to how they jumped from the position they were in 2 years ago to top 5 guys based on their OTE play.

There has only been 16 teams in the history of the NBA draft to have two top 5 picks playing at the same time, I find it hard to believe the OTE City Reapers have a team of that calibre

I mean, i think you're exacerbating their so called "lack of production" a bit much, at least this year.

No they haven't displayed Zion esque numbers or levels of dominance, but if they did combined with their playmaking and defensive potential both twins would be in the running for #1 overall, Wembenyama be damned.

Like, they've had some stinkers, and it's fair to say its hard to extrapolate their numbers compared to prospects in college or the g league or overseas, but they've been more than good enough even with a slight dip in efficiency lately (which is probably more to do with shot selection than anything, you take away all the 3pt attempts and Amen's numbers don't look nearly as bad, and so then what's the conclusion?; he can't shoot, like, we already knew that )

And like i get concerns about the shooting paired with the physical profile, but it does nothing comparing him to Elfrid Payton and Tony Wroten because he's 6'6 (actually 6'7) and can't shoot. Amen's on a completely different planet as them as an athlete, you have to take that into account.

[The Moose]

Well the crux of the issue, for me at least, is that I feel drafting sophomore aged guards who are not good shooters, (one of which being essentially a non shooter at this point) and not good overall scorers in general in the top 5 is basically a no-go 99% of the time. In order for that player to become worthy of that pick, they have to either provide tremendous impact via other aspects of the game or dramatically improve their shooting.

Just focusing on Amen because he seems to be a lot of these guys favourite. He is really, really bad at shooting and I feel like it's getting swept under the rug way too easily. Its a rough example because they obviously aren't playing in the same league (though I would argue they are playing in a far easier comp) but there has only been 2 NCAA 1st round picks since 2008 who were 6'6 or shorter(rough filter for guards) who have matched Amen's current figures of sub 25% 3pt and sub 70% ft, and they were Elfrid Payton and Tony Wroten.

It seems as those who are super high on them think that their athleticism is so overwhelming they will just be unstoppable forces as drivers ala Zion, though the problem is that they aren't even unstoppable forces in the OTE league.

The last 3 games he's played 30+ minutes in (2 games against the only other decent team in OTE and the Winston Salem Christian high school team) he's averaged 12ppg in 36.5 minutes per game, going 0-11 from 3. If a ball handler isn't able to be an effective scorer in todays game, their ancillary skills, like Amen's on ball playmaking/passing, become a lot less useful.

And yes Amen can make some nice passes off the dribble, either hand , tough angles, but he also throws a lot of bad passes and careless turnovers, I don't think his playmaking is anything game changing by itself.

Anyway, I'm not even saying it's out of the question they turn out to be good players, I just don't see how its possible to justify having Amen and Ausar so high outside of 'just trust me bro, watch this highlight clip'.
Neither of them were top 20 recruits in HS, they've spent the last 2 years in low level comp while others in their class have played ncaa ball, they've looked fairly mediocre against the only competitive team in this comp, and we're suddenly supposed to be assuming they are just easy top 5 picks because... of their flashes in highlight clips? I mean it's certainly not based on their production, because as I've already said, their production is essentially impossible to contextualise relative to draft standards.

I've been lost as to how they jumped from the position they were in 2 years ago to top 5 guys based on their OTE play.

There has only been 16 teams in the history of the NBA draft to have two top 5 picks playing at the same time, I find it hard to believe the OTE City Reapers have a team of that calibre

I mean, i think you're exacerbating their so called "lack of production" a bit much, at least this year.

No they haven't displayed Zion esque numbers or levels of dominance, but if they did combined with their playmaking and defensive potential both twins would be in the running for #1 overall, Wembenyama be damned.

Like, they've had some stinkers, and it's fair to say its hard to extrapolate their numbers compared to prospects in college or the g league or overseas, but they've been more than good enough even with a slight dip in efficiency lately (which is probably more to do with shot selection than anything, you take away all the 3pt attempts and Amen's numbers don't look nearly as bad, and so then what's the conclusion?; he can't shoot, like, we already knew that )

And like i get concerns about the shooting paired with the physical profile, but it does nothing comparing him to Elfrid Payton and Tony Wroten because he's 6'6 (actually 6'7) and can't shoot. Amen's on a completely different planet as them as an athlete, you have to take that into account.

I mean, is it shot selection, or is it the fact that the Young Dreamerz actually forced the City Reapers to play in the half court? It seems like all those blowout wins early in the season they were able to play in transition for a lot of the game.

In these 2 games against the YNG Dreamerz I didn't count a single bucket for Amen OTD in the half court, not 1. He basically was a complete non scorer with the ball in his hand in the HC. Most PnR's the Dreamerz either doubled or just straight up switched and Amen wasn't able to capitalise as a scorer at all. He bricked all of his catch and shoot jumpers. Even when he managed to create an advantage off the dribble, he missed a bunch of shots at the rim or was fouled, where he went 4-12 from ft's over the 2 games.

Majority of the time in these 2 games, he was driving to pass, to his credit he did make some nice passes, it looked like his best skill.
He had 4 makes from breakaway open layups/dunks via steals, 2 put backs from offensive rebounds, an oop from a back door cut, and 1 layup off a middle cut.
Amen really wasn’t able to create good looks for himself off the dribble though , and the jump shot is non existent.

He looked good defensively but he gambles a lot for steals, I could see him becoming a useful defender at the NBA level though.

As for Ausar, he looked even worse offensively because he didn't even show the on ball passing that Amen did. The Dreamerz stuck a 7'1 big guy on him for long stretches of the games in the half court, and he couldn't punish them at all. Bricked every single one of his jumpers, had 4 buckets across the 2 games, 2 of which were transition layups.
Like Amen, he looked good on defense, but they are excessively aggressive and gamble constantly on defense.

The only thing that really stood out across the games was their potential to be good defenders, and Amen showing some nice passes off the bounce

[The Moose]

Great point. A similar prospect would be Sharpe who is an elite NBA athlete, maybe one tier below the Thompsons, who sat out for a year.

For Sharpe, he was a recruiting service ranked #1 prospect after dominating summer basketball against top 5 star kids his age at the Nike's Peach Jam.

Amen was last #22 ESPN, #31 247Sport, #38 Rivals before turning pro. Somehow sitting out 2 years in OTE increases your draft stocks.

Relying on rivals, ESPN and 247sport rankings from 2 years ago as the basis for your argument..

I suppose that means you have Dillon Mitchell ranked 20 spots ahead of Jett Howard, too?

This was last updated June 2021, which is so outdated it's not even really worth mentioning, but ESPN has Amen as a 5 star recruit: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/243378/amen-thompson

The twins have clearly both gotten much better since June 2021..

I think you missed the point, the point isn't that players can't outperform their high school rankings, this happens often when they get to college, the point is that this usually occurs at the NCAA level.

The question is how has the Thompson twins stock raised so much since joining the OTE program, what is the basis for this huge leap and is it actually justified.

[Hal14]

Great point. A similar prospect would be Sharpe who is an elite NBA athlete, maybe one tier below the Thompsons, who sat out for a year.

For Sharpe, he was a recruiting service ranked #1 prospect after dominating summer basketball against top 5 star kids his age at the Nike's Peach Jam.

Amen was last #22 ESPN, #31 247Sport, #38 Rivals before turning pro. Somehow sitting out 2 years in OTE increases your draft stocks.

Relying on rivals, ESPN and 247sport rankings from 2 years ago as the basis for your argument..

I suppose that means you have Dillon Mitchell ranked 20 spots ahead of Jett Howard, too?

This was last updated June 2021, which is so outdated it's not even really worth mentioning, but ESPN has Amen as a 5 star recruit: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/243378/amen-thompson

The twins have clearly both gotten much better since June 2021..

I think you missed the point, the point isn't that players can't outperform their high school rankings, this happens often when they get to college, the point is that this usually occurs at the NCAA level.

The question is how has the Thompson twins stock raised so much since joining the OTE program, what is the basis for this huge leap and is it actually justified.

Maybe they were underrated when those rankings came out in june 2021.

Maybe the OTE has actually done a good job of developing them (there's actually pro-level coaches there, which is not the case in NCAA). Not to mention, according to some of the content I've seen, the twins have VERY good work ethic, not to mention having that insane athleticism obviously helps with development..

Maybe some of the guys who were ranked ahead of them 2 years ago have gotten worse - or simply haven't developed as much as the twins since that time - or they shouldn't have been ranked behind the twins in the 1st place.

IDK, but i don't think we should put too much weight into HS rankings of players from 2 years ago..

[treefi]

Neither of them were top 20 recruits in HS, they've spent the last 2 years in low level comp while others in their class have played ncaa ball, they've looked fairly mediocre against the only competitive team in this comp, and we're suddenly supposed to be assuming they are just easy top 5 picks because... of their flashes in highlight clips? I mean it's certainly not based on their production, because as I've already said, their production is essentially impossible to contextualise relative to draft standards.

I've been lost as to how they jumped from the position they were in 2 years ago to top 5 guys based on their OTE play.

Great point. A similar prospect would be Sharpe who is an elite NBA athlete, maybe one tier below the Thompsons, who sat out for a year.

For Sharpe, he was a recruiting service ranked #1 prospect after dominating summer basketball against top 5 star kids his age at the Nike's Peach Jam.

Amen was last #22 ESPN, #31 247Sport, #38 Rivals before turning pro. Somehow sitting out 2 years in OTE increases your draft stocks.

Relying on rivals, ESPN and 247sport rankings from 2 years ago as the basis for your argument..

I suppose that means you have Dillon Mitchell ranked 20 spots ahead of Jett Howard, too?

This was last updated June 2021, which is so outdated it's not even really worth mentioning, but ESPN has Amen as a 5 star recruit: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/243378/amen-thompson

The twins have clearly both gotten much better since June 2021..

I think the point is that if Dillon Mitchell had decided to join OTE this year to play with the Thompson twins, he wouldn't have sucked due to lack of competition. In fact there's a good chance he'd still be ranked ahead of Jett Howard right now.

[treefi]

Relying on rivals, ESPN and 247sport rankings from 2 years ago as the basis for your argument..

I suppose that means you have Dillon Mitchell ranked 20 spots ahead of Jett Howard, too?

This was last updated June 2021, which is so outdated it's not even really worth mentioning, but ESPN has Amen as a 5 star recruit: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/243378/amen-thompson

The twins have clearly both gotten much better since June 2021..

I think you missed the point, the point isn't that players can't outperform their high school rankings, this happens often when they get to college, the point is that this usually occurs at the NCAA level.

The question is how has the Thompson twins stock raised so much since joining the OTE program, what is the basis for this huge leap and is it actually justified.

Maybe they were underrated when those rankings came out in june 2021.

Maybe the OTE has actually done a good job of developing them (there's actually pro-level coaches there, which is not the case in NCAA). Not to mention, according to some of the content I've seen, the twins have VERY good work ethic, not to mention having that insane athleticism obviously helps with development..

Maybe some of the guys who were ranked ahead of them 2 years ago have gotten worse - or simply haven't developed as much as the twins since that time - or they shouldn't have been ranked behind the twins in the 1st place.

IDK, but i don't think we should put too much weight into HS rankings of players from 2 years ago..

The thing is, we have no way of knowing yet whether or not OTE did a good job developing them because they're not being challenged by the competition. They're college sophomore age now and from what I can tell, they'd be two of the worst shooters in the NBA from day one. If shooting is all they need to develop, what's been going on at OTE?? Saben Lee is not a shooter and look how great he was at shooting 3s in the G-League, a level of competition ABOVE what the Thompson twins are facing. I've heard scouts take the "they have great work ethic" narrative too many times with too many prospects to claim there is added potential for growth. Maybe it's true this time? Who knows. I don't understand how someone can claim to know? Everyone in the NBA needed a great work ethic at some point in life to make it there.

The only thing I know for sure is that they are elite-level athletes, which is not nearly enough to make it in today's NBA... but yeah, probably elite enough to take a chance in the lottery.

[treefi]

In my opinion, there's simply not enough yet to go on to claim that either Thompson twin is talented enough to become an NBA starter level player without being able to shoot the ball. And it seems over half the scouts out there have already conceded that Amen will never be able to.

Some people are acting like it's the 90/00s NBA and the Thompson twins are 18 years old coming straight out of high school.

[Hal14]

Great point. A similar prospect would be Sharpe who is an elite NBA athlete, maybe one tier below the Thompsons, who sat out for a year.

For Sharpe, he was a recruiting service ranked #1 prospect after dominating summer basketball against top 5 star kids his age at the Nike's Peach Jam.

Amen was last #22 ESPN, #31 247Sport, #38 Rivals before turning pro. Somehow sitting out 2 years in OTE increases your draft stocks.

Relying on rivals, ESPN and 247sport rankings from 2 years ago as the basis for your argument..

I suppose that means you have Dillon Mitchell ranked 20 spots ahead of Jett Howard, too?

This was last updated June 2021, which is so outdated it's not even really worth mentioning, but ESPN has Amen as a 5 star recruit: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/243378/amen-thompson

The twins have clearly both gotten much better since June 2021..

I think the point is that if Dillon Mitchell had decided to join OTE this year to play with the Thompson twins, he wouldn't have sucked due to lack of competition. In fact there's a good chance he'd still be ranked ahead of Jett Howard right now.

Maybe Mitchell would be ranked higher right now if he played in OTE, maybe not. Sounds like you're reaching..

[babyjax13]

Relying on rivals, ESPN and 247sport rankings from 2 years ago as the basis for your argument..

I suppose that means you have Dillon Mitchell ranked 20 spots ahead of Jett Howard, too?

This was last updated June 2021, which is so outdated it's not even really worth mentioning, but ESPN has Amen as a 5 star recruit: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/243378/amen-thompson

The twins have clearly both gotten much better since June 2021..

I think the point is that if Dillon Mitchell had decided to join OTE this year to play with the Thompson twins, he wouldn't have sucked due to lack of competition. In fact there's a good chance he'd still be ranked ahead of Jett Howard right now.

Maybe Mitchell would be ranked higher right now if he played in OTE, maybe not. Sounds like you're reaching..

I don't see how pointing out the laughable competition is reaching, tbh

[SeattleJazzFan]

if dillon mitchell had played in OTE, yeah, chances are very good he'd be in the top 7 discussion. if you're an elite athlete who can't shoot, go play OTE - even g league - anywhere with a more wide open, up and down style. college basketball is too crowded and it's tough for a guy like that to get production.

[babyjax13]

if dillon mitchell had played in OTE, yeah, chances are very good he'd be in the top 7 discussion. if you're an elite athlete who can't shoot, go play OTE - even g league - anywhere with a more wide open, up and down style. college basketball is too crowded and it's tough for a guy like that to get production.

I have to say I disagree. I had him as a second rounder based on high school. It was clear even in that context he was big, not skilled. Maybe I was an outlier, but I think watching a few games he would have been moved down a lot.

[babyjax13]

If the Thompson twins don't develop passable jumpers they are bench players at best. Other players have been extreme outlier athletes while not being anything but bench guys in the NBA, e.g. Gerald Green, Shannon Brown, etc. They have some nice passing ability, but every time I've seen them Ausar has been passive to a fault and can't punish defenses for going under screens or switching, and Amen presses to generate rim pressure but that advantage can been mitigated because he can't shoot, either. Based on their lack of development in their most important swing skill, I can't see how anyone would have confidence in OTEs development program. Ollie might be a good game manager, and I love Mike Miller, but either the program can't identify what players need for the NBA, can't help them develop those skills, or there is something fundamentally wrong with how the twins do and/or have approached the game.

[Hal14]

If the Thompson twins don't develop passable jumpers they are bench players at best. Other players have been extreme outlier athletes while not being anything but bench guys in the NBA, e.g. Gerald Green, Shannon Brown, etc. They have some nice passing ability, but every time I've seen them Ausar has been passive to a fault and can't punish defenses for going under screens or switching, and Amen presses to generate rim pressure but that advantage can been mitigated because he can't shoot, either. Based on their lack of development in their most important swing skill, I can't see how anyone would have confidence in OTEs development program. Ollie might be a good game manager, and I love Mike Miller, but either the program can't identify what players need for the NBA, can't help them develop those skills, or there is something fundamentally wrong with how the twins do and/or have approached the game.

They literally just turned 20. Stop expecting them to be amazing shooters. Most of the league's best shooters are guys who are age 26 or older.

Ausar has improved his 3 pt % this season dramatically.

Also, remember that 3 pt % is not everything. It's actually pretty low on the list of indicators to look for when projecting 3 pt shooting ability long term at the NBA level.

Volume is a big indicator and both of the twins are shooting good volume from 3 and on long 2's. They'll be fine and they project as arguably the 2 best defensive prospects in this draft class, arguably the 2 best passing prospects in this class, arguably the 2 best prospects in the class in terms of rim pressure while being generational prospects in terms of athleticism.