Anthony Black - Arkansas

1eyedjake · Post #41 » by **1eyedjake** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 12:16 am

Worst case, his D will get him playing time in the league, and a chance to improve the other parts of his game.

big-shot-ROB · Post #42 » by **big-shot-ROB** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:41 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
crows2 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:you still can't compare him to negative space players and non-shooters like Giddey, no one is leaving Black open, his mechanics top to bottom are solid and has many multi made 3s games already this season.

it's not an ability issue, it's a volume issue. he doesn't have Cade's shooting volume which is why i specifically said he's a less-scoring oriented Cade, so you guys are just repeating the idea.

Whilst valid comparisons to make, I still don’t think Black’s playmaking is anywhere near the level of someone like Giddey. Black is a good passer for his height (which is what makes him intriguing as a prospect), but he’s not absolutely elite in that area. His athleticism and shooting may be superior to Giddey, but he doesn’t possess an elite-level trait like Giddey does. Black’s more of a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none kind of prospect.

I half agree. I think Black's vision and feel for the game are pretty elite unless you are looking at the absolute upper echelon of NBA players. But if you told me Black finished say ... top 5 in assists multiple times in his career, that doesn't seem implausible. Add to it that he is a big, switchable guard who can hit open shots, I think that has a lot of value (not saying you are arguing this). In terms of role, I could see him occupying a similar space as Marcus Smart, but with higher upside due to his size, and superior basketball IQ. Lonzo is another interestingish comp, but I think Black is not quite as good at making the 'pass to the pass,' and is going to have the ball stick to his hands just a bit more.

That's cutting Marcus Smart's IQ very short. The guy is top-3 in defensive IQ in the league and just transformed it's game style to orchestrate BOS offense.

big-shot-ROB · Post #43 » by **big-shot-ROB** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 3:43 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
crows2 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:you still can't compare him to negative space players and non-shooters like Giddey, no one is leaving Black open, his mechanics top to bottom are solid and has many multi made 3s games already this season.

it's not an ability issue, it's a volume issue. he doesn't have Cade's shooting volume which is why i specifically said he's a less-scoring oriented Cade, so you guys are just repeating the idea.

Whilst valid comparisons to make, I still don’t think Black’s playmaking is anywhere near the level of someone like Giddey. Black is a good passer for his height (which is what makes him intriguing as a prospect), but he’s not absolutely elite in that area. His athleticism and shooting may be superior to Giddey, but he doesn’t possess an elite-level trait like Giddey does. Black’s more of a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none kind of prospect.

I half agree. I think Black's vision and feel for the game are pretty elite unless you are looking at the absolute upper echelon of NBA players. But if you told me Black finished say ... top 5 in assists multiple times in his career, that doesn't seem implausible. Add to it that he is a big, switchable guard who can hit open shots, I think that has a lot of value (not saying you are arguing this). In terms of role, I could see him occupying a similar space as Marcus Smart, but with higher upside due to his size, and superior basketball IQ. Lonzo is another interestingish comp, but I think Black is not quite as good at making the 'pass to the pass,' and is going to have the ball stick to his hands just a bit more.

That's cutting Marcus Smart's IQ very short. The guy is top-3 in defensive IQ in the league and just transformed it's game style to orchestrate BOS offense.

babyjax13 · Post #44 » by **babyjax13** » Fri Feb 17, 2023 5:06 pm

big-shot-ROB wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
crows2 wrote:
Whilst valid comparisons to make, I still don’t think Black’s playmaking is anywhere near the level of someone like Giddey. Black is a good passer for his height (which is what makes him intriguing as a prospect), but he’s not absolutely elite in that area. His athleticism and shooting may be superior to Giddey, but he doesn’t possess an elite-level trait like Giddey does. Black’s more of a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none kind of prospect.

I half agree. I think Black's vision and feel for the game are pretty elite unless you are looking at the absolute upper echelon of NBA players. But if you told me Black finished say ... top 5 in assists multiple times in his career, that doesn't seem implausible. Add to it that he is a big, switchable guard who can hit open shots, I think that has a lot of value (not saying you are arguing this). In terms of role, I could see him occupying a similar space as Marcus Smart, but with higher upside due to his size, and superior basketball IQ. Lonzo is another interestingish comp, but I think Black is not quite as good at making the 'pass to the pass,' and is going to have the ball stick to his hands just a bit more.

That's cutting Marcus Smart's IQ very short. The guy is top-3 in defensive IQ in the league and just transformed it's game style to orchestrate BOS offense.

I meant on offense and should have specified.

LofJ · Post #45 » by **LofJ** » Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:02 pm

Read on Twitter

About time he declared, don't be shocked when he's picked in the top 5 ahead of the Thompson twins.

clyde21 · Post #46 » by **clyde21** » Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:06 pm

surprised? he's my #3 ranked player after Wemby/Scoot.

LofJ · Post #47 » by **LofJ** » Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:36 pm

clyde21 wrote:surprised? he's my #3 ranked player after Wemby/Scoot.

I want to rank him over Brandon Miller as well, the only thing stopping me is the fact that Miller is 6'9 and such a great shooter already. As an all-around basketball player though I like Black more. If his shooting improves he doesn't have any glaring weaknesses. And even then it's not as if he's a non-threat to shoot. His spatial awareness on both ends is special, I think he will impact winning in a big way.

Braggins · Post #48 » by **Braggins** » Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:37 pm

I have him 4th, but at this point I'd still be a little surprised if he actually went top 5.

clyde21 · Post #49 » by **clyde21** » Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:41 pm

i can see definitely dweeb NBA GMs do something stupid like that.

JMAC3 · Post #50 » by **JMAC3** » Wed Apr 12, 2023 9:58 pm

He was the offensive hub on a team that underachieved for the majority of the year.

Then he took a step back once Nick Smith was back in terms of role. Top 10 pick I can see, but 3rd seems crazy for a guy that is probably an average athlete and has a below average shot.

clyde21 · Post #51 » by **clyde21** » Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:00 pm

JMAC3 wrote:He was the offensive hub on a team that underachieved for the majority of the year.

Then he took a step back once Nick Smith was back in terms of role. Top 10 pick I can see, but 3rd seems crazy for a guy that is probably an average athlete and has a below average shot.

it's hard to take any of your "rankings" seriously when you barely have Scoot as a first rounder.

The-Power · Post #52 » by **The-Power** » Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:43 pm

JMAC3 wrote:He was the offensive hub on a team that underachieved for the majority of the year.

Then he took a step back once Nick Smith was back in terms of role. Top 10 pick I can see, but 3rd seems crazy for a guy that is probably an average athlete and has a below average shot.

Black is far better than average as an athlete. The (only) real concern with him is his shot. But that's a big concern.

clyde21 · Post #53 » by **clyde21** » Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:26 am

don't think the shot is a concern, the concern imo a lack of scoring repertoire between the rim and the 3pt line, needs a better floater or middy game, but he's gonna knock down shots at a respectable level in the NBA i don't doubt it

BostonCouchGM · Post #54 » by **BostonCouchGM** » Thu Apr 13, 2023 1:28 am

top 5 is silly. It was silly before the season, during and especially now. He's not 6'7" first of all. He can't shoot. He has narrow shoulders so not the type of frame that can pack on muscle. That said, despite this, I still have him in the top 10 in a weaker draft class because I believe he is a plus defender with great BBIQ on both ends, can pass and has "it". What really surprised me was how effective he was getting to the rim and finishing.

The-Power · Post #55 » by **The-Power** » Thu Apr 13, 2023 1:34 am

clyde21 wrote:don't think the shot is a concern, the concern imo a lack of scoring repertoire between the rim and the 3pt line, needs a better floater or middy game, but he's gonna knock down shots at a respectable level in the NBA i don't doubt it

I'd disagree with that. With rare exceptions, you need to be able to pull up in the NBA if you want the ball in your hands. And Black is still far away from that. Not only is he inefficient when he does pull up; he way too often doesn't even attempt it when given space. And that can easily be the difference between being the lead Guard on his team versus a defense-first defender and transition player off the bench. It's a big swing skill for him – arguably more so than for anyone else.

clyde21 · Post #56 » by **clyde21** » Thu Apr 13, 2023 1:39 am

i mean he's pretty much the same height as Jordan Walsh who's for sure 6-7

LofJ · Post #57 » by **LofJ** » Thu Apr 13, 2023 1:29 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:top 5 is silly. It was silly before the season, during and especially now. He's not 6'7" first of all. He can't shoot. He has narrow shoulders so not the type of frame that can pack on muscle. That said, despite this, I still have him in the top 10 in a weaker draft class because I believe he is a plus defender with great BBIQ on both ends, can pass and has "it". What really surprised me was how effective he was getting to the rim and finishing.

He is 6'7 and he's already pretty muscular for a 19 year old. He isn't a twig in the slightest, his legs especially are well developed for a teenager. His lower body strength is one of the reasons why he was able to get to the line so effectively.

You're right about his shot however. He shoots it flat because he doesn't get enough lift. His form and footwork are fine though, so I think it's something he can address. If he doesn't he'll still be a great role player in the league, but to be more than that he needs to be able to shoot off the dribble.

Hal14 · Post #58 » by **Hal14** » Thu Apr 13, 2023 1:32 pm

This kid comes across really good in interviews. So wholesome, so genuine. So unassuming.

Comes across literally the polar opposite of cocky/arrogant/selfish.

Personality-wise, reminds me of how Derrick White comes across in interviews.

Read on Twitter

Hal14 · Post #59 » by **Hal14** » Thu Apr 13, 2023 1:41 pm

JMAC3 wrote:He was the offensive hub on a team that underachieved for the majority of the year.

Then he took a step back once Nick Smith was back in terms of role. Top 10 pick I can see, but 3rd seems crazy for a guy that is probably an average athlete and has a below average shot.

His closest comps are (in order)

Dyson Daniels
Josh Giddey
Scottie Barnes

That's an 8th pick, a 6th pick and a 4th pick. I've got him ranked 11th right now, mainly because it's a strong class and I just like the other 10 guys I have ahead of him a little more (Dyson Daniels probably goes closer to 11th, rather than 8th in this draft).

NYPiston · Post #60 » by **NYPiston** » Thu Apr 13, 2023 2:16 pm

I can't see the justification for taking Black in the top 5. He has a great overall game but he'll never be a #1 option and likely never even be a #2 scoring option on a contender. Great glue guy to have that makes others better and makes winning plays but I don't see franchise player upside. I see a lot of other prospects in the 3-8 range that have more question marks but also more upside.

However, this is such a weak draft with questions littered all over the high lottery prospects so he has a shot to go top 5. He'd be a great fit on a team like Houston or Orlando for example.