As a Prospect: Rose vs. Jay Williams?

TheKingOfVa360 · Post #41 » by **TheKingOfVa360** » Fri May 23, 2008 4:34 pm

Jay Williams was a way better prospect. Rose reminds me of Antonio Daniels

Blame Rasho · Post #42 » by **Blame Rasho** » Fri May 23, 2008 5:02 pm

NurbekIL wrote:People are **** forgetting what kind of a beast Jay Williams was. When Duke lost to Indiana, I was celebrating cause I knew Terps wouldn't have to go through him to win the title.

Yeah... but that doesn't means that he would have been a star in the NBA. Christian Latterner was on another level compared to Williams and didn't amount to anything basically compared to his college career.

Jay Williams was a way better prospect. Rose reminds me of Antonio Daniels

I doubt that Rose shoots below 40% and gets below 10 points and 5 assists his rookie year like Williams did.

SendEm · Post #43 » by **SendEm** » Fri May 23, 2008 6:13 pm

Rose is incredibly over hyped to not have any special passing skills and no outside shot. He's simply a penetrating ball handling guard who is either going to attempt to attack the rim or kick it out. Like someone said earlier "He's like Marbury but without selfishness and headache." He's a great deal like Marbury but he is a more WILLING passer while at the same time having less passing skills/talent and no outside jump shot. That would indeed make him sort of like a Andre Miller with more athleticism, but even Miller had more passing skills/talent as a youth.

I just find it weird for so many people to consider Rose an "elite pg" when he throws the most basic passes. He simply slashes to the hole then kicks the ball out to the open shooter with a two handed chest pass while turning to look at the shooter. I'm just accustomed to "elite pg's" making that same play but with a one handed no look pass because it's just so simple. You NEVER see Rose thread the needle with any of his passes. You NEVER see any one handed passes off of the dribble while running at full speed from Rose like you do from true elite pg's like Nash, J Kidd, D Williams...What is all of the hype about? Rose is basically a super athletic slashing scorer that is a VERY willing passer when double teamed.

SendEm · Post #44 » by **SendEm** » Fri May 23, 2008 6:23 pm

Allen Iverson is a great SG but what makes anyone think that Rose will be a better PG than Iverson? They both get their assists from penetrating and throwing simple passes but AI always had the penchant for threading the needle every once in a while. Steve Francis ran the PG position the same way with a penetrate and dish mentality but he would also make the difficult pass sometimes. How is Rose better than those two at PG? We already know that he isn't the scorer that they are even though one day he could become the scorer that Franchise was. But at the PG position how is Rose any better a prospect than AI and Francis? AI and Francis made huge impacts at the PG position but they weren't floor generals, they were the equivalent to a running quarterback in the NFL where they didn't run a teams offense, the offense was ran around them...
Rose looks like a teams offense is going to be geared around him but with lower PERSONAL productivity than AI and Francis BUT with the same outcome...

BullDawg · Post #45 » by **BullDawg** » Fri May 23, 2008 8:56 pm

Who cares if Rose isn't flashy? The simple play is the best one. I see Rose as a Dwayne Wade type athlete with point guard skills...easily worth the #1 pick that my Bulls will use to draft him. Keep hating haters!

Post #46 » by **jman3134** » Fri May 23, 2008 9:04 pm

Yeah... but that doesn't means that he would have been a star in the NBA. Christian Latterner was on another level compared to Williams and didn't amount to anything basically compared to his college career.

That's neglecting the fact that Laettner was injured. Plus, they don't really compare in terms of similar player styles nor in terms of speed. (which was Laettner's biggest difficulty post injury)

Still, in his first few seasons he averaged from 16-18 ppg in the league. I wouldn't consider that a complete bust.

Relentless88 · Post #47 » by **Relentless88** » Fri May 23, 2008 11:05 pm

Let's hope Derrick Rose doesn't buy or ride a motor cycle ever.

Post #48 » by **tsherkin** » Sat May 24, 2008 3:22 am

jman3134 wrote:
That's neglecting the fact that Laettner was injured. Plus, they don't really compare in terms of similar player styles nor in terms of speed. (which was Laettner's biggest difficulty post injury)

Still, in his first few seasons he averaged from 16-18 ppg in the league. I wouldn't consider that a complete bust.

Second that; he was an All-Star the year they decided to let him face-up instead of back down (though an injury replacement). Laettner was good until he messed up his back. Great passer, great mid-range shot, decent rebounder, good quickness against the bigger guys...

FutureKnicksGM · Post #49 » by **FutureKnicksGM** » Sun May 25, 2008 3:11 am

SendEm wrote:Rose is incredibly over hyped to not have any special passing skills and no outside shot. He's simply a penetrating ball handling guard who is either going to attempt to attack the rim or kick it out. Like someone said earlier "He's like Marbury but without selfishness and headache." He's a great deal like Marbury but he is a more WILLING passer while at the same time having less passing skills/talent and no outside jump shot. That would indeed make him sort of like a Andre Miller with more athleticism, but even Miller had more passing skills/talent as a youth.

I just find it weird for so many people to consider Rose an "elite pg" when he throws the most basic passes. He simply slashes to the hole then kicks the ball out to the open shooter with a two handed chest pass while turning to look at the shooter. I'm just accustomed to "elite pg's" making that same play but with a one handed no look pass because it's just so simple. You NEVER see Rose thread the needle with any of his passes. You NEVER see any one handed passes off of the dribble while running at full speed from Rose like you do from true elite pg's like Nash, J Kidd, D Williams...What is all of the hype about? Rose is basically a super athletic slashing scorer that is a VERY willing passer when double teamed.

I completely agree with this post

takin'over · Post #50 » by **takin'over** » Sun May 25, 2008 4:26 am

As explosive off the bounce as JWill was, Rose is a better athlete with a bit more size. His skills aren't as advanced but he's a better finisher and has a better midrange game and shot selection than JWill ever had. Definitely a better rebounder and defender as well. People knock Rose for his inconsistency over his freshman year but Williams was as streaky as they came.

Dantares · Post #51 » by **Dantares** » Sun May 25, 2008 9:43 am

Didn't Jay Williams lose the starting PG spot to Jamal crawford? I'm a Knicks fan and i can tell you Jamal crawford stinks. that is pathetic considering jay had 3 years of college and was supposed to be more of a pure PG than Jamal.

TheKingOfVa360 · Post #52 » by **TheKingOfVa360** » Sun May 25, 2008 9:08 pm

SendEm wrote:Allen Iverson is a great SG but what makes anyone think that Rose will be a better PG than Iverson? They both get their assists from penetrating and throwing simple passes but AI always had the penchant for threading the needle every once in a while. Steve Francis ran the PG position the same way with a penetrate and dish mentality but he would also make the difficult pass sometimes. How is Rose better than those two at PG? We already know that he isn't the scorer that they are even though one day he could become the scorer that Franchise was. But at the PG position how is Rose any better a prospect than AI and Francis? AI and Francis made huge impacts at the PG position but they weren't floor generals, they were the equivalent to a running quarterback in the NFL where they didn't run a teams offense, the offense was ran around them...
Rose looks like a teams offense is going to be geared around him but with lower PERSONAL productivity than AI and Francis BUT with the same outcome...

Great post I agree