Brook Lopez

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Post#41 » by Cammo101 » Thu May 29, 2008 5:44 am

JMillott wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



That is crazy talk, you don't pass on a pretty damn surefire 20/4/4 SG who can also defend and hit 40% on his threes for a center who isn't likely to be more then a 15/8 guy.


This is pure fiction. I would love to know the scientific formula you used to prove a guy who underachieved as a freshman is a surefire 20,4,4 despite being somewhat undersized for a SG and not particularly quick. Yet, Lopez, who is the proven talent, has a ceiling of 15 and 8?

Lopez walks into the league and averages 15 and 8 as a rookie given the minutes. Mayo is a heck of a lot riskier than you think and not a guy who will walk in and be a 20 ppg. scorer.
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Post#42 » by GSW2K4 » Thu May 29, 2008 5:47 am

Cammo101 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



You take Lopez and the decision is easy.


Because he fits well with Jefferson? Or because he's BPA?
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Post#43 » by Cammo101 » Thu May 29, 2008 5:50 am

GSW2K4 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Because he fits well with Jefferson? Or because he's BPA?


Yes to both. And also because Minny needs a combo guard like they need Isiah as their GM.
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Post#44 » by GJense4181 » Thu May 29, 2008 5:58 am

^Because two combo guards can't play together.
IMPOSSIBLE.
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Post#45 » by JMillott » Thu May 29, 2008 6:09 am

Cammo101 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



This is pure fiction. I would love to know the scientific formula you used to prove a guy who underachieved as a freshman is a surefire 20,4,4 despite being somewhat undersized for a SG and not particularly quick. Yet, Lopez, who is the proven talent, has a ceiling of 15 and 8?

Lopez walks into the league and averages 15 and 8 as a rookie given the minutes. Mayo is a heck of a lot riskier than you think and not a guy who will walk in and be a 20 ppg. scorer.


#1. How is OJ Mayo undersized for the SG position and how could anybody question any of his athletic gifts? Its his fault for going to USC and playing in Tim Floyd's lack of an offense.

#2. I don't think he is a lock to average 20/4/4 as a 21 year old, its possible but very unlikely. I'd be shocked if he doesn't get 16/4/4 as a rookie though.

#3. I think Brook Lopez is a solid enough prospect, that being said if he was a lock for a top 3/5 he'd be in the running for the #1 overall pick as a center happens to be the Bulls biggest need easily.

#4. I've love to hear a scientific formula that shows Brook Lopez is good for 15/8 as a rookie? Its all projection, you have in my honest opinion strongly overrated Brook Lopez, but you're welcome to your opinion.
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Post#46 » by Cammo101 » Thu May 29, 2008 7:08 am

GJense4181 wrote:^Because two combo guards can't play together.
IMPOSSIBLE.


They already have 3 combo guards playing together in Foye, McCants, and Jaric. And they also have Telfair who showed some nice flashes last year. That is plenty of guards when you are on pace to start Michael Doleac at center.
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Post#47 » by Cammo101 » Thu May 29, 2008 7:10 am

JMillott wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



#1. How is OJ Mayo undersized for the SG position and how could anybody question any of his athletic gifts? Its his fault for going to USC and playing in Tim Floyd's lack of an offense.

#2. I don't think he is a lock to average 20/4/4 as a 21 year old, its possible but very unlikely. I'd be shocked if he doesn't get 16/4/4 as a rookie though.

#3. I think Brook Lopez is a solid enough prospect, that being said if he was a lock for a top 3/5 he'd be in the running for the #1 overall pick as a center happens to be the Bulls biggest need easily.

#4. I've love to hear a scientific formula that shows Brook Lopez is good for 15/8 as a rookie? Its all projection, you have in my honest opinion strongly overrated Brook Lopez, but you're welcome to your opinion.


Regardless of all this conjecture, I think any team in the league would take a 15 and 8 seven footer over a 6'4'' SG going for 20 ppg.
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Post#48 » by revprodeji » Thu May 29, 2008 7:52 am

Jaric is more of a 3 who can play the point. McCants is a 2. Foye is the combo guard.

It is weird how nobody is a fan of Mayo and Lopez. The Lopez fans think Mayo will bust and the Mayo fans say Lopez is Cherokee Parks.
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Post#49 » by wilt » Thu May 29, 2008 8:52 am

revprodeji wrote:It is weird how nobody is a fan of Mayo and Lopez. The Lopez fans think Mayo will bust and the Mayo fans say Lopez is Cherokee Parks.


that
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Post#50 » by i<3basketball » Thu May 29, 2008 10:08 am

I watched 7-8 Stanford games this year. From watching the games you can tell that Brook can score points in the post. The one thing I saw consistently about Lopez though is that often he gets the ball in the post and puts up the shot, misses but gets his own board and puts it back up, misses but boards it again and puts it up again and finally it goes in this time. This is not necessarily good as much of the time he was guarded by guys 2 to 3 to 4 inches shorter. That's not going to happen in the NBA. So instead of 1-3 shooting with 2 points and 2 offensive boards on that type of possession he'll be 0-1 shooting with no points and no boards against players his own size and skill. I believe this type of thing has also caused his below 50% shooting percentage. This is one of the only things I really dislike about Brook.
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Post#51 » by JMillott » Thu May 29, 2008 12:35 pm

Cammo101 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



They already have 3 combo guards playing together in Foye, McCants, and Jaric. And they also have Telfair who showed some nice flashes last year. That is plenty of guards when you are on pace to start Michael Doleac at center.


McCants isn't a combo guard, he is a SG period. He is really only good for one thing and that is for scoring in bunches off the bench. If they have him in the longterm plans still its as a sixth man.

Marko Jaric is a combo guard, he is also somebody they are desperate to trade if at all possible. Not the kind of player that would stop a GM from drafting an allstar level SG by any means.

Randy Foye for better or worse is the teams PG of the now and the future assuming he stays healthy. Because he isn't the best set up PG in the league it does in fact make OJ Mayo more attractive because he can also handle the ball enough to take pressure off Foye.

Telfair is a back up PG and not a great one he shouldn't have anything to do with how they feel about the draft.

I've got no problem with a team taking Brook Lopez because I think he'll be a solid starting center but you don't go with solid big over great wing that is nuts.

Great big vs great wing is a judgement call where you normally have to go big but you don't pass on a Chris Paul/Deron Williams to draft a Andrew Bogut and this is the same thing.
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Post#52 » by Cammo101 » Thu May 29, 2008 3:05 pm

revprodeji wrote:Jaric is more of a 3 who can play the point. McCants is a 2. Foye is the combo guard.

It is weird how nobody is a fan of Mayo and Lopez. The Lopez fans think Mayo will bust and the Mayo fans say Lopez is Cherokee Parks.


This is not true. I rate Lopez and Mayo as the #3 and #4 players in this draft. My problem is with the people who know for a fact Mayo will be a superstar. Mayo is a much riskier pick than the Mayo lovers want to let on, but i still like the kid a lot as a prospect. The Mayo lovers are just so nutty about him that i end up arguing against a guy I like.
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Post#53 » by Cammo101 » Thu May 29, 2008 3:07 pm

JMillott wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Great big vs great wing is a judgement call where you normally have to go big but you don't pass on a Chris Paul/Deron Williams to draft a Andrew Bogut and this is the same thing.


Paul and Williams were a clear cut above Mayo as a prospect. Not the same thing.
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Post#54 » by JMillott » Thu May 29, 2008 3:18 pm

Cammo101 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Paul and Williams were a clear cut above Mayo as a prospect. Not the same thing.


Its the same ballpark and Andrew Bogut was also a far better prospect then Brook Lopez is so it kind of equals out.
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Post#55 » by Cammo101 » Thu May 29, 2008 3:24 pm

JMillott wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Its the same ballpark and Andrew Bogut was also a far better prospect then Brook Lopez is so it kind of equals out.


In theory, but conventional wisdom is that you take the big unless you think the small is going to be a superstar. Paul and Williams were pretty good bets for being star players, Mayo is much more likely to be just a very good scorer. Also, in situations like this you have to look at who is the better fit for Minny, and that is clearly Lopez.
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Post#56 » by Winter Wonder » Thu May 29, 2008 3:50 pm

I have no link short of going to the MN board, but there are rumors about saying how Lopez doesn't want to work out for the Wolves now.

Makes me less inclined to want to draft him.
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Post#57 » by GSW2K4 » Thu May 29, 2008 3:54 pm

Cammo101 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Lopez walks into the league and averages 15 and 8 as a rookie given the minutes.


Since you're using numbers to justify your opinion, how are your projecting that Lopez will step in and average 15 and 8 as a rookie?

Since we're comparing to Kaman and Bogut, Bogut averaged 9 and 7 his rookie year and still hasn't hit 15; Kaman averaged 6 and 5 his rookie year. Both were starters.

And those guys were much more seasoned college players coming in.

15 and 8 are much closer to Yao Ming's rookie numbers... who is a much taller(different) player...

Big men take longer to develop so I wouldn't try to apply a statistical projection until I knew what team he was on and who's coaching him...
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Post#58 » by JMillott » Thu May 29, 2008 3:59 pm

Al Jefferson is basically my favorite player in the NBA right now, (Celtics fan) I couldn't agree less about Brook Lopez being a good fit next to him.

I also do think that OJ Mayo is a surefire allstar SG in a couple years, I agree he isn't a prospect on the level of Chris Paul or Deron Williams but i'd put him on par with Brandon Roy or Joe Johnson.

I don't think Brook Lopez is going to be a bad pro or a great pro, I think he'll have a nice solid NBA career. But I think the entire big over small arguement is very flawed.

If a player is a great dominant big then yes that is extremely valueable, but a solid starting center is not worth more to a team than an allstar calibur wing.
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Post#59 » by revprodeji » Thu May 29, 2008 3:59 pm

I just do not see that much of a difference in Lopez and Hibbert and the wolves can draft Mayo and trade back into the 1st for Hibbert.
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Post#60 » by Kcin11690 » Thu May 29, 2008 4:04 pm

Cammo101 wrote:Lopez was a better high school senior than Bogut or Kamen. He was a better college freshman than Bogut or Kamen. He was a better college sophmore than Bogut or Kamen. And he will be a better NBA player than Bogut or Kamen. And I like both Bogut and Kamen.


Bogut's sophomore year:
20.4/12.2/2.3 on 62% shooting (and NCAA POTY)

Kaman's junior year:
22.4/12.0/1.2 on 62% shooting

Lopez's sophomore year:
19.3/8.2/1.4 on 47% shooting

Clearly Kaman and Bogut were worse college players than Lopez heading into the NBA.
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