Looking back at last year's draft...the Lopez error

[Dr Positivity]

I agree... I'm more critical of the way teams (and fans) judge upside and natural talent, often putting too much emphasis on pure athleticism and not enough on skill or bball IQ. IMO James Harden's upside >>>>>>>> Demar Derozan's.

But yeah, a legit 7 footer with very good footwork and a midrange jumpshot definitely should not have been given a 'safe' label.

I don't know if I would go that far per se. I think the bigger problem is that people assume far too much certainty with regards to "upside". The truth is that if Joe Alexander does everything right, picks up a lot of skill, really gets the NBA game and realizes his full potential, he may be the better player than Lopez. But people fail to realize what a tall order that is.

Yea that's sort of what I mean. It isn't rare for players to learn to shoot once they hit the NBA, true. But handles, first step, passing vision and hands, bball IQ... for all of those, the players who have them, show it by their draft... it's very hard/impossible to go from horrible in those skills to superstar level after you hit the nba, or else everyone would be doing it. Well first step is a part of athleticism, but the fact that Derozan's isn't very good and Harden's is maybe means Derozan's athleticism is not as perfect as billed and Harden's is underrated. I think Harden's upside is bigger than Derozan because he does have a great first step, great handles, great shooting range, great passing skills, great bball IQ... all things that wing players must excel in to be stars. Meanwhile Derozan stinks at literally every one of those things. At some point there's just too much to just acquire out of nowhere once he hits the NBA because he's athletic. It's sort of like saying Thabeet's offensive ceiling is Kareem Abdul-Jabbar because he's 7'2+ and as mobile as him. Well that's not really untrue, but of course it's obvious Thabeet just doesn't have the skills in place to achieve that...

[Jonathan Watters]

talking about Minnesota:

So instead of actually drafting a true center, they selected a player who plays the same position as their best player and is not as good as Lopez anyhow.

(and this is in response to Cucad too)

I like Lopez but I don't think he Jefferson wouldn't work too well as a starting duo for MN. Jefferson isn't a true center but from an offensive standpoint he plays like one. I think a Lopez-Jefferson front court would be problematic on offense and the improvement on defense wouldn't be enough compensate for the decrease in offensive efficiency when compared to a Jefferson-Love front court. Offensively, those too have the potential to compliment each other very well. I'm counting on McLovin' to back up his talk and sharpen his shooting skills.

Rev...this is why I am angry and condescending.

The type of delusion and disregard for reality that it takes to compose something like the above is staggering. Downright staggering...

And I'm not always angry. You Wolves fans have a special way of bringing it out of me though, because as a group you are particularly deluded. You'll learn eventually, just like they always do...

Let me know when Corey Brewer is playing like Scottie Pippen, would you?

[wiff]

To me Lopez is kind of like the cute girl next door.

There is nothing really a matter with her but on the sexy scale she is like a 6.5 or 7. She has a nice figure and is funny. But she isn't a bombshell.

Most guys are fine with a 7 but if there is a 9 in the corner you kind of want to take your shot at her first. Then of course when you get up closer to the 9 you find out she fooled you and is wearing one of those damn push up bra's and has bad breath.

Then by the time you can stop the conversation about her 7 cats, your neighbor has already hooked up with your best friend.

Lopez doesn't really jump of the page with anything he does. However he does a lot of things good not just great.

And it's absolutely true that scouts and GM's buy into potential.

Part of that is you don't want to be the GM that passes on the next Michael Jordan.

[Jonathan Watters]

Not true.

As a group, GM's will consistently make the "safe" choice over the risky one, because they are afraid of drafting the guy that will cost them their jobs.

History proves this.

[NetsForce]

All I know is... I'd like to thank each and every team that passed on Brook Lopez.

[wiff]

Not true.

As a group, GM's will consistently make the "safe" choice over the risky one, because they are afraid of drafting the guy that will cost them their jobs.

History proves this.

I disagree because before they moved the Sonics had 21 feet of potential rotting on the end of their bench from three consecutive drafts.

[Jonathan Watters]

So because one franchise screwed up potential picks that means all of them do?

[richboy]

The team that made the biggest mistake was Minnesota. I really like Kevin Love. Fact is they needed a center. Lopez and Love were close enough that size should have won out.

[richboy]

A large part of it was because he was skilled and a sophmore. You are seeing a bit of this even with Griffin atm. Somehow if you aren't a high school or one and done player AND you actaully have sound fundamentals, you automatically have no more potential upside. Lopez had legit concerns last year but most of them were under the (false) assumption that Lopez somehow because he was a skilled sophomore that he somehow was already a finished product that could not improve at all.

Lopez though is a legit 7 footer with long arms. Who is pretty athletic. Watching him play I think if that draft was done again he would go number 2 to the Heat. Lopez though has the size to dominate his position. Griffin is a undersized PF.

[Luv those Knicks]

A large part of it was because he was skilled and a sophmore. You are seeing a bit of this even with Griffin atm. Somehow if you aren't a high school or one and done player AND you actaully have sound fundamentals, you automatically have no more potential upside. Lopez had legit concerns last year but most of them were under the (false) assumption that Lopez somehow because he was a skilled sophomore that he somehow was already a finished product that could not improve at all.

Lopez though is a legit 7 footer with long arms. Who is pretty athletic. Watching him play I think if that draft was done again he would go number 2 to the Heat. Lopez though has the size to dominate his position. Griffin is a undersized PF.

I don't know if he'd go #2 or if Miami would trade down, because Mayo has more value than Lopez. I'm also not sold that Lopez will be better than Love when all is said & done. Love is the better rebounder and better at drawing fouls. Lopez is a more efficient scorer, more blocked shots and obviously taller.

and I've still got hopes that My Man Gallinari will make a splash now that he's had his surgery.

[vincecarter4pres]

Lopez, doesn't just block shots, he is a flatout defensive anchor and this was as a 20/21 year old rookie. Imagine when he sheds the rookie label and earns the refs respect.
I'm telling you, in about 3 or 4 years when Duncan and Yao are in the twilights of their respective HOF careers, Lopez will be the 2nd best center in the league behind Dwight. New Jersey got the draft steal of the decade in Lopez.

[Luv those Knicks]

Lopez, doesn't just block shots, he is a flatout defensive anchor and this was as a 20/21 year old rookie. Imagine when he sheds the rookie label and earns the refs respect.
I'm telling you, in about 3 or 4 years when Duncan and Yao are in the twilights of their respective HOF careers, Lopez will be the 2nd best center in the league behind Dwight. New Jersey got the draft steal of the decade in Lopez.

So, you're convinced that Lopez will be a better center than Bogut and Oden and I have to ask you about Bosh, who, granted is more of a tweener but is often listed as a center.

I'm not convinced that Lopez is that good. I'm not saying he's bad, but he might be closer to Ronnie Seikaly, a center who put up good numbers on a bad team. I think it's a tad premature to call him the draft steal of the decade.

[vincecarter4pres]

I am convinced he will better then Bogut and Oden, absolutely, Bynum as well.
In 3 or 4 years the top 5 centers in the league will likely be Howard, Lopez, Nene, Bogut and if Yao is still as good as he is now, he jumps to a 1a, 1b type of tie with Howard. Of course there are always players that aren't even in the NBA yet that could immediately be good enough to jump into the top 5 in their rookie or maybe 2nd or 3rd season.
Bosh isn't a center. Sure he played center for most of a season, but it was by default, he is a PF, he is not a tweener. Plus his defense is suspect, but obviously he is currently a much better player then Brook Lopez.

[wolves_fan_82au]

Love almost avg a double double in hes first year
i woulkd take him over lopez

i mean anyone that could still have that many double doubles with al jefferson in the side m ust be good

[vincecarter4pres]

Love looks to be a really good player with a high ceiling. I still like Lopez better though. The thing for me is what others have already said, when Minny drafted Love over Lopez, they force Al Jefferson to play out of position, it was just a head scratcher.

[Wade2k6]

Lopez, doesn't just block shots, he is a flatout defensive anchor and this was as a 20/21 year old rookie. Imagine when he sheds the rookie label and earns the refs respect.
I'm telling you, in about 3 or 4 years when Duncan and Yao are in the twilights of their respective HOF careers, Lopez will be the 2nd best center in the league behind Dwight. New Jersey got the draft steal of the decade in Lopez.

Draft steal of the decade?

Ever hear of Dwyane Wade? Amare Stoudamire? Brandon Roy? Al Jefferson?

That was just in the last 5-6 years, let alone this decade. Lopez is a great value pick, but to say he's the biggest steal of this decade is not true.

[revprodeji]

Rev...this is why I am angry and condescending.

The type of delusion and disregard for reality that it takes to compose something like the above is staggering. Downright staggering...

And I'm not always angry. You Wolves fans have a special way of bringing it out of me though, because as a group you are particularly deluded. You'll learn eventually, just like they always do...

Let me know when Corey Brewer is playing like Scottie Pippen, would you?

Where did I say he would play like Scottie Pippen? I sited numerous pre-draft articles that said he could be a poor-poor man pippen. A defensive standout who is able to get in the paint. He shows those tools. I never said he was going to be a top-50 all time player. But, like the majority of your posts, you simply read enough of a statement to twist it in your response.

[Jonathan Watters]

Rev...this is why I am angry and condescending.

The type of delusion and disregard for reality that it takes to compose something like the above is staggering. Downright staggering...

And I'm not always angry. You Wolves fans have a special way of bringing it out of me though, because as a group you are particularly deluded. You'll learn eventually, just like they always do...

Let me know when Corey Brewer is playing like Scottie Pippen, would you?

Where did I say he would play like Scottie Pippen? I sited numerous pre-draft articles that said he could be a poor-poor man pippen. A defensive standout who is able to get in the paint. He shows those tools. I never said he was going to be a top-50 all time player. But, like the majority of your posts, you simply read enough of a statement to twist it in your response.

I was referring to the Wolves fanbase in general, and obviously exaggerating my response by quite a bit. I tend to use exaggeration to make a point, you might have noticed this...

And when has Corey Brewer shown the ability to get into the paint? He sure as heck didn't show it in college, and his pro track record speaks for itself...

But keep on talking about how he's got Scottie Pippen's tools and then wondering why I get a little short around here...

[revprodeji]

I thought that getting into the paint was something he did rather well last year. In college he did also. But in college he was a better finisher. In the pro game he is going to need a short jumper in order to be effective, but he was able to get in the paint his rookie year.

How about you list the "Pippen tools" and we can go from there.

[Zeitgeister]

I thought that getting into the paint was something he did rather well last year. In college he did also. But in college he was a better finisher. In the pro game he is going to need a short jumper in order to be effective, but he was able to get in the paint his rookie year.

How about you list the "Pippen tools" and we can go from there.

The only way that Brewer is remotely comparable to Pippen is his defense and even that is something that Pippen is much better then Brewer at. That isn't an insult either since Pippen was one of the best perimeter defenders in his era.