Joel Embiid

[Tave]

Embiid reported out for the final 2 regular season games.

[reignfire]

Apparently Embiid has had a small history, but a history nonetheless, of back problems. Docs say it's not genetically predisposed. His HS coach says he needs to strengthen his core more.

[Antrim]

I don't see the Olajuwon comparison at all. It's like one person made that claim early on and the rest of the basketball world ran with it without giving it much thought. Hakeem was a significantly better athlete. Much more quicker and more nimble though he was 1-3" shorter than Embiid. Their games aren't similar and neither is their athletic profile.

Embiid has some decent footwork for a young big but he's on the robotic side and isn't that explosive off his feet. There is no way I'd take him over Wiggins but I'd probably roll the dice with him at #2 since centers are still such a commodity.

People made the Hakeem comparison because he did that dreamshake-esque move(shoulder fake step through) against New Mexico and because he's an African big who hasn't been playing long yet has developed quickly.

Nearly every African 7-footer has only been playing basketball for a few years when they hit the US.

And it really says something about the state of post play in the US, pro and college, if one step-through by a big man draws Olajuwon comparisons.

Exactly. That's why we have a couple of Embiid's in every draft, right?

[Tave]

Apparently Embiid has had a small history, but a history nonetheless, of back problems. Docs say it's not genetically predisposed. His HS coach says he needs to strengthen his core more.

He's come along so fast it's easy to forget how young and raw he is. Some of my questions about his strength/toughness have been silenced, but he does still need some time to bulk up, because he's not a stand-out athlete.

[reignfire]

Apparently Embiid has had a small history, but a history nonetheless, of back problems. Docs say it's not genetically predisposed. His HS coach says he needs to strengthen his core more.

He's come along so fast it's easy to forget how young and raw he is. Some of my questions about his strength/toughness have been silenced, but he does still need some time to bulk up, because he's not a stand-out athlete.

I've seen Dwight and Embiid run at full speed. Embiid would win in a foot race. The fact that Embiid moves so well for a guy his size MEANS he's a great athlete.


Do you not consider Garnett a great athlete? Garnett is probably the most fluid big man of all time. Embiid is a great athlete like Garnett is a great athlete.

[Tave]

Embiid is nowhere near as fast as Dwight or Garnett. I have no idea what you're talking about.

[brackdan70]

back issues??, how far does he slip?

[reignfire]

Embiid is nowhere near as fast as Dwight or Garnett. I have no idea what you're talking about.

I've seen every game Embiid has played in college and I've seen him run at top speed. Can you say the same?

I was a Wolves exclusive fan the entirety of KG's prime. Can you say the same?

Dwight is kind of a stiff. He's very strong and he jumps high, but he is stiff.

Watch Dwight running at full speed here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooBhOlPG0C4#t=0m11s

[Dr Positivity]

Embiid's ceiling to me is 28/15/4/3 ish numbers.

Those two are great players but I feel Embiid has a combo of the best of them.

I don't see Embiid as on that level athletically (or David Robinson and Hakeem, which is what that statline implicates)

Im not supporting that stat line but on him not having the same level of athleticism as Robinson or Olajuwan, he is just different. He cant run as fast or jump as high as those guys but the way he moves, there is a smoothness to his motion and a quickness that you just dont ever see. Not to mention he is taller and longer than Olajuwan. There was a play where he went for a rebound and dove on the floor, tapped the ball out while diving to the floor and did a quick roll on the floor and got back to his feet. I have neve seen a big man do something like that, you dont even seen smaller guys being able to move like that. I have only been following the draft since 2009 but he looks like the best prospect to me of all those drafts.

Well for one... Hakeem and Robinson also have that high fluidity/feel for the game... in addition to the ridiculous "traditional" athleticism

And I disagree with the "you just dont ever see" bit for Embiid's fluidity and feel. Yes he has unique talent in in the area, but not totally unique. Roy Hibbert, Marc Gasol, Greg Monroe, Anthony Davis have it for example, among older bigs like Duncan, KG, Pau, Yao, Shaq, etc. Extending it to other positions includes Paul, Parker, Paul George, Lebron and Durant, LMA, etc. And in this draft class Jabari Parker, Tyler Ennis, Dario Saric, Kyle Anderson also have it. But at least for the last 3, it's probably not worth enough to pick the top 10 on it alone (personally I rate feel for the game as 1/3 of talent, so if a player mostly only has it, it may work out as well as an "only physical tools" player like Tyrus Thomas/Anthony Randolph. If Kendall Marshall's 3pt shot disappears, I don't like his chances, for example). And I wouldn't call Embiid's fluidity some kind of transcendent rare personally. To me there's one player who's fluidity and feel stands out one notch above even the rest of those standouts this class and that's actually Saric

[EMG518]

I don't see Embiid as on that level athletically (or David Robinson and Hakeem, which is what that statline implicates)

Im not supporting that stat line but on him not having the same level of athleticism as Robinson or Olajuwan, he is just different. He cant run as fast or jump as high as those guys but the way he moves, there is a smoothness to his motion and a quickness that you just dont ever see. Not to mention he is taller and longer than Olajuwan. There was a play where he went for a rebound and dove on the floor, tapped the ball out while diving to the floor and did a quick roll on the floor and got back to his feet. I have neve seen a big man do something like that, you dont even seen smaller guys being able to move like that. I have only been following the draft since 2009 but he looks like the best prospect to me of all those drafts.

Well for one... Hakeem and Robinson also have that high fluidity/feel for the game... in addition to the ridiculous "traditional" athleticism

And I disagree with the "you just dont ever see" bit for Embiid's fluidity and feel. Yes he has unique talent in in the area, but not totally unique. Roy Hibbert, Marc Gasol, Greg Monroe, Anthony Davis have it for example, among older bigs like Duncan, KG, Pau, Yao, Shaq, etc. Extending it to other positions includes Paul, Parker, Paul George, Lebron and Durant, LMA, etc. And in this draft class Jabari Parker, Tyler Ennis, Dario Saric, Kyle Anderson also have it. But at least for the last 3, it's probably not worth enough to pick the top 10 on it alone (personally I rate feel for the game as 1/3 of talent, so if a player mostly only has it, it may work out as well as an "only physical tools" player like Tyrus Thomas/Anthony Randolph. If Kendall Marshall's 3pt shot disappears, I don't like his chances, for example). And I wouldn't call Embiid's fluidity some kind of transcendent rare personally. To me there's one player who's fluidity and feel stands out one notch above even the rest of those standouts this class and that's actually Saric

I dont really want to get into it but I dont think you understand how unique Embiid's ability to move is let alone having the size/length he has along with it. You named a ton of guys but none of them have his ability. My god Roy Hibbert, Shaq, really? Its the way all his moving parts move, its special. He has a quickness that is elite and his movements are so smooth, saying its like a guard isnt even doing it justice. Guards dont even move with that fluidity. I have seen him make moves I have never seen a big man being capable of. Thats why his offensive upside is massive. He has no limitations because of that movement he posseses and elite quickness/reactions to go with it. My only concern for him would be he hits the floor alot, doesnt bode well for his body and injury concerns could stem from it. He is the clear #1 pick though. Without a doubt.

[Tave]

Embiid is nowhere near as fast as Dwight or Garnett. I have no idea what you're talking about.

I've seen every game Embiid has played in college and I've seen him run at top speed. Can you say the same?

I was a Wolves exclusive fan the entirety of KG's prime. Can you say the same?

Dwight is kind of a stiff. He's very strong and he jumps high, but he is stiff.

Watch Dwight running at full speed here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooBhOlPG0C4#t=0m11s

Yes, I've watched Embiid, Garnett, and Howard quite a bit.

Embiid is smoother in his movements than either, but he doesn't cover ground at the same rate.


I dunno what a "Wolves exclusive fan" is but it sounds like the Mickey Mouse Club.

[Ruzious]

Embiid is nowhere near as fast as Dwight or Garnett. I have no idea what you're talking about.

I've seen every game Embiid has played in college and I've seen him run at top speed. Can you say the same?

I was a Wolves exclusive fan the entirety of KG's prime. Can you say the same?

Dwight is kind of a stiff. He's very strong and he jumps high, but he is stiff.

Watch Dwight running at full speed here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooBhOlPG0C4#t=0m11s

Lol, I'm still waiting for the part where Howard is a stiff. He's not the incredible athlete he was before the back problems, but he's still impressive. I don't expect a near 7 footer to be John Wall out there.

I heard a reporter yesterday say Embiid's been playing hurt most of the season and could barely walk after the last game. Not a good sign.

[Tave]

I dont really want to get into it but I dont think you understand how unique Embiid's ability to move is let alone having the size/length he has along with it. You named a ton of guys but none of them have his ability. My god Roy Hibbert, Shaq, really? Its the way all his moving parts move, its special. He has a quickness that is elite and his movements are so smooth, saying its like a guard isnt even doing it justice. Guards dont even move with that fluidity. I have seen him make moves I have never seen a big man being capable of. Thats why his offensive upside is massive. He has no limitations because of that movement he posseses and elite quickness/reactions to go with it. My only concern for him would be he hits the floor alot, doesnt bode well for his body and injury concerns could stem from it. He is the clear #1 pick though. Without a doubt.

I wouldn't put Hibbert in the conversation, either, but Shaq? Absolutely, without question.

[hands11]

I don't see the Olajuwon comparison at all. It's like one person made that claim early on and the rest of the basketball world ran with it without giving it much thought. Hakeem was a significantly better athlete. Much more quicker and more nimble though he was 1-3" shorter than Embiid. Their games aren't similar and neither is their athletic profile.

Embiid has some decent footwork for a young big but he's on the robotic side and isn't that explosive off his feet. There is no way I'd take him over Wiggins but I'd probably roll the dice with him at #2 since centers are still such a commodity.

I suggest you do more research on Embiid and why people are making that comparison.

As for who should go first. I agree, in most cases, I would take the impact SF/SG/PG how could be a franchise player and center of my offense, but he has to defend as well. Look at the recent title teams and who the best players in the league are on them. Players like LeBron, Kobe, Wade, MJ are winning more titles then your next level of Dirk, Duncan are winning, more then your stud PG lead teams like D Rose, CP3. Next in line is KD. Melo if he ever matures mentally and gets on the right team. He should have stayed in Denver. Griffin is on the boarder. So is Love. Paul George might get there this year.

A great center is awesome to have but its more likely you need a stud as a SG/SF/PG type or a stud PF/C like Duncan or Dirk as your best player.

MEM is a great example. They are as good as you can get without having that player. Great PG, great center that can pass and shoot out to the FT line. Solid PF. If they all play together perfectly, they can beat anyone, but they don't have that player I mentioned above so the teams that have then will be just better enough to beat them most years in a title chase. But Gasol is real close to that player.

Its what Portland is also missing. LAC have a better shot then them.

So yeah, if Wiggins is for real, you pick him over Embiid. But Embiid looks like he will anchor a defense in time and you need that as well. The issue is, is that more important then that other kind of player. I say no. I hope he stays in school. He is going to go top 3 this year or next. He should stay, learn and let his body/mind mature.

Look at this draft. Who do you take.

The impact PG AI ?
The center Camby
The pure SG ? Ray Allen
PG Malbury
other centers Erick Dampier or Lorenzen Wright

Or the SG/PG Kobe..

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-draft-h ... syear=1996

What a great draft that was. Lots of HOF players. But Kobe was the best of the best there.

[hands11]

I don't see the Olajuwon comparison at all. It's like one person made that claim early on and the rest of the basketball world ran with it without giving it much thought. Hakeem was a significantly better athlete. Much more quicker and more nimble though he was 1-3" shorter than Embiid. Their games aren't similar and neither is their athletic profile.

Embiid has some decent footwork for a young big but he's on the robotic side and isn't that explosive off his feet. There is no way I'd take him over Wiggins but I'd probably roll the dice with him at #2 since centers are still such a commodity.

People made the Hakeem comparison because he did that dreamshake-esque move(shoulder fake step through) against New Mexico and because he's an African big who hasn't been playing long yet has developed quickly.

Also has the soccer and volleyball background. He also will tell you himself that is who is models his game after.

[hands11]

back issues??, how far does he slip?

I don't think he will slip because I'm pretty sure he stays another year.

Wiggins will go #1

[EMG518]

I wouldn't put Hibbert in the conversation, either, but Shaq? Absolutely, without question.

He was a massive human being with a ton of athleticism but his moving parts werent smooth like Embiid. They literally had the term "Hack A Shaq" because he had no jump shot what so ever. He couldnt develop one his entire career. Shaq doesnt compare one bit to the skills Embiid has the potential to develop. Like I said though guys like Shaq and Robinson might be able to run faster and jump higher but the smoothness to all movements Embiid can make they dont possess. Saying he moves like a guard doesnt even due him justice.

[Tave]

I wouldn't put Hibbert in the conversation, either, but Shaq? Absolutely, without question.

He was a massive human being with a ton of athleticism but his moving parts werent smooth like Embiid. They literally had the term "Hack A Shaq" because he had no jump shot what so ever. He couldnt develop one his entire career. Shaq doesnt compare one bit to the skills Embiid has the potential to develop. Like I said though guys like Shaq and Robinson might be able to run faster and jump higher but the smoothness to all movements Embiid can make they dont possess. Saying he moves like a guard doesnt even due him justice.

Shaq had incredible footwork and was exceptionally graceful for his size. Yes, his jumpshot was awful, but that has nothing to do with how smooth he moved around the court.

[EMG518]

I wouldn't put Hibbert in the conversation, either, but Shaq? Absolutely, without question.

He was a massive human being with a ton of athleticism but his moving parts werent smooth like Embiid. They literally had the term "Hack A Shaq" because he had no jump shot what so ever. He couldnt develop one his entire career. Shaq doesnt compare one bit to the skills Embiid has the potential to develop. Like I said though guys like Shaq and Robinson might be able to run faster and jump higher but the smoothness to all movements Embiid can make they dont possess. Saying he moves like a guard doesnt even due him justice.

Shaq had incredible footwork and was exceptionally graceful for his size. Yes, his jumpshot was awful, but that has nothing to do with how smooth he moved around the court.

Yes it does. Its about all his moving parts. He couldnt coordinate his body into making any semblance of a jump shot. There is nothing Embiid cant coordinate his body into doing because of the way he is able to move. Extremely rare for anyone of any size.

[Dr Positivity]

Hibbert is as fluid as Embiid. Check out how Embiid-y he looks at times in this clip of him as a freshman http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWqS2_phBqA Hibbert is strange because the post skillset looks there to be a much better offensive player. May be a headcase thing knowing his history