Trae Young

[Skin]

No matter his oncourt production, I can't imagine a team taking a 6 foot guard with questionable athleticism over some of the other prospects in this draft.

Beat out Marcus Camby, Shareef Abdur_Raheem, Antoine Walker, etc etc

I see you glossed over the 'questionable athleticism' part. Iverson was a special athlete.

I was mostly blown away because I can't believe people still think height is an important deciding factor in judging basketball players.

[jonjames]

His lack of size and dynamic athleticism are his only "real flaws" but the modern game is becoming less about pure size/strength and more geared towards skill and ability to shoot from range. His ability to get by his man and drive into the paint while scoring playing below the rim is really underrated and is testament of his quickness and crafty skill. His pace of the game is eerily similar to stephen curry..not slow but not fast just always under control and poised. Huge raw stats in college translating to league can be decpetive but i believe his feel for the game high iq in top of his high skill level secures him from ever busting. The real question isnt whether he will he live up to his draft slot but what level of stardom he will reach.

[Marcus]

Beat out Marcus Camby, Shareef Abdur_Raheem, Antoine Walker, etc etc

I see you glossed over the 'questionable athleticism' part. Iverson was a special athlete.

I was mostly blown away because I can't believe people still think height is an important deciding factor in judging basketball players.

Yeah you for sure didnt match your comp with something in the same ballpark though. A.I. is something we havent really seen before or after and his game compared to Trae is night and day. Even reaching for A.I. in this instance nullifies the point you were trying to make to begin with.

If Young had A.I's bounce and ability to finish we wouldnt be questioning anything else. Being the level athlete A.I was trumped most questions about his size. Id feel much better with A.I. driving into a crowd than i would Trae. Hell in that regard id feel better about Sexton driving into a crowd.

Give me an example with a below rim guy comparable to Trae. And none of this is to say its not possible just saying A.I. wasnt the right choice to make that point. You might have even made a better argument with Kyrie and even that has flaws.

[SportsGuy8]

Trae Young does have some question-marks, but it's not hard to see his game translating to today's NBA. The level of basketball in the NCAA always disappoints me, but I feel like there's a huge difference between Trae's domination and Morrison's or Jimmer's. Most of what Trae's doing should translate at least somewhat to the NBA, I really wouldn't be surprised at all if he becomes one of the best PGs. The league (and also it's rules) is made for players like him.

Doncic - I gotta see him play against better athletes. Sorry, I know there's high quality ball in Europe played by grown men, but the level of athleticism often fools people.

the level of athleticism esp when you add up with the difficulty in terms of decision making and better X's and O's and miles better coaches, isn't higher in college overall than in the EuroLeague, so not sure where you are coming from.

Doncic has played in EuroBasket and excelled in probably the higher level of athleticism that any prospect in this class has played, so sorry sir, but no.

This really is ridiculous.

Doncic has played vs. several actual NBA players, even NBA stars, he faces ex-NBA players on a weekly basis, he faces several former NCAA stars (that are now grown men) basically every single game ... Yet we need to "see him play against better athletes".

While NCAA prospects keep playing against kids that for the most part aren't even going to come close to the NBA, Euroleague or even any other top European leagues, and are most likely going to end up in G-League or in China, and even those are best case scenarios.

Based on how people keep throwing this out for Doncic, you would think that top NCAA lottery prospects only play and are defended by other top lottery prospects, but that happens only a couple times in an entire season.

[916fan]

Trae Young does have some question-marks, but it's not hard to see his game translating to today's NBA. The level of basketball in the NCAA always disappoints me, but I feel like there's a huge difference between Trae's domination and Morrison's or Jimmer's. Most of what Trae's doing should translate at least somewhat to the NBA, I really wouldn't be surprised at all if he becomes one of the best PGs. The league (and also it's rules) is made for players like him.

Doncic - I gotta see him play against better athletes. Sorry, I know there's high quality ball in Europe played by grown men, but the level of athleticism often fools people.

the level of athleticism esp when you add up with the difficulty in terms of decision making and better X's and O's and miles better coaches, isn't higher in college overall than in the EuroLeague, so not sure where you are coming from.

Doncic has played in EuroBasket and excelled in probably the higher level of athleticism that any prospect in this class has played, so sorry sir, but no.

This really is ridiculous.

Doncic has played vs. several actual NBA players, even NBA stars, he faces ex-NBA players on a weekly basis, he faces several former NCAA stars (that are now grown men) basically every single game ... Yet we need to "see him play against better athletes".

While NCAA prospects keep playing against kids that for the most part aren't even going to come close to the NBA, Euroleague or even any other top European leagues, and are most likely going to end up in G-League or in China, and even those are best case scenarios.

Based on how people keep throwing this out for Doncic, you would think that top NCAA lottery prospects only play and are defended by other top lottery prospects, but that happens only a couple times in an entire season.

I think Doncic is a top 3 player in this draft. However, I think it's extremely fair to question the athleticism in Europe. The poster didn't say anything about level of competition. The top 50 schools are more athletic than the top 50 teams in Europe. However, the players playing professional ball in Europe are A LOT more skilled than college players. It's funny to argue over something kinda pointless.

In favor of Doncic, I had questions about Bogdan Bogdanovic translating over to the NBA. He's just an average athlete all around, but a little better than Doncic. It's an extremely small 30game sample size, but he has played well.

[SportsGuy8]

No they're not, it's a myth. You do realise that basically every single European team has former NCAA stars on it's roster? (as many as the rules allow, even more actually, since some get naturalised) So basically that's 2-3 players on every single team that used to be STARS of their NCAA teams, but now they also have adult bodies, with much more muscle mass, strength, even more pure athleticism ... Then there's also several very athletic players from Africa and South America, some also naturalised.

You could argue that the absolute top colleges are more athletic on average, but I highly doubt this goes past just a couple top recruiting teams.

I could go on an on but this isn't the right thread for it. I mustn't pull a Mirotic.

[Duke4life831]

So far Carter is winning the battle against Young. Young looks to be really struggling with the physical defense from Carter.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Wouldn't mind seeing a few games like this as just seeing a hot streak builds a distorted view of what his eventual career will look like, if he played in the NBA tomorrow based on hype some people would expect him to average 25 ppg.

Similar to when Lonzo Ball didn't lose a game for 2 years people pushed the he's a winner narrative to mythical proportions and it was never going to pan out like that.

[Duke4life831]

I'm just not sold on him. I thought he really got shut down by Carter today. Felt like he got a good amount of his points from the floor when Carter was off of him and Bolden was on him.

[Mulhollanddrive]

He still managed to get the free throw line alot (13 FTAs).

List of guards who average 5.5+ FTA per game - Harden, DeRozan, Westbrook, Lillard, Booker, Wall, Curry, Williams, Conley, Oladipo, Walker.

There's not a bad player in that list.

[Duke4life831]

He still managed to get the free throw line alot (13 FTAs).

List of guards who average 5.5+ FTA per game - Harden, DeRozan, Westbrook, Lillard, Booker, Wall, Curry, Williams, Conley, Oladipo, Walker.

There's not a bad player in that list.

Ya but I'm not going to bank on that if I'm going to take him in the lottery. He struggled to get any clean looks tonight with Carter on him tonight and just seemed bothered the entire time with him on him. This is now 3 straight really bad shooting nights from the floor for him.

[Mulhollanddrive]

My main concern from the past few games are more his turnovers (29 assists, 21 turnovers).

Historically it's hard for a PG to dramatically improve their college rate in NBA.

[doordoor123]

He still managed to get the free throw line alot (13 FTAs).

List of guards who average 5.5+ FTA per game - Harden, DeRozan, Westbrook, Lillard, Booker, Wall, Curry, Williams, Conley, Oladipo, Walker.

There's not a bad player in that list.

Ya but I'm not going to bank on that if I'm going to take him in the lottery. He struggled to get any clean looks tonight with Carter on him tonight and just seemed bothered the entire time with him on him. This is now 3 straight really bad shooting nights from the floor for him.

JeVonte Carter is an elite defender at age 23, Young is 19 years old. It’s probably his first time going against a defender of that caliber. And he has been playing really good defensive teams, which is why he isn’t shooting well. If he knew what he could get away with against a good defender he would be fine.

[Leslie Forman]

He still managed to get the free throw line alot (13 FTAs).

List of guards who average 5.5+ FTA per game - Harden, DeRozan, Westbrook, Lillard, Booker, Wall, Curry, Williams, Conley, Oladipo, Walker.

There's not a bad player in that list.

Ya but I'm not going to bank on that if I'm going to take him in the lottery. He struggled to get any clean looks tonight with Carter on him tonight and just seemed bothered the entire time with him on him. This is now 3 straight really bad shooting nights from the floor for him.

It's easy to play defense when you know the refs won't actually call a foul on you. Young was repeatedly hacked in the first half yet couldn't buy a call.

[Duke4life831]

He still managed to get the free throw line alot (13 FTAs).

List of guards who average 5.5+ FTA per game - Harden, DeRozan, Westbrook, Lillard, Booker, Wall, Curry, Williams, Conley, Oladipo, Walker.

There's not a bad player in that list.

Ya but I'm not going to bank on that if I'm going to take him in the lottery. He struggled to get any clean looks tonight with Carter on him tonight and just seemed bothered the entire time with him on him. This is now 3 straight really bad shooting nights from the floor for him.

It's easy to play defense when you know the refs won't actually call a foul on you. Young was repeatedly hacked in the first half yet couldn't buy a call.

I don't think Trae got an unfair whistle today at all.

[anthony00]

He still managed to get the free throw line alot (13 FTAs).

List of guards who average 5.5+ FTA per game - Harden, DeRozan, Westbrook, Lillard, Booker, Wall, Curry, Williams, Conley, Oladipo, Walker.

There's not a bad player in that list.

Ya but I'm not going to bank on that if I'm going to take him in the lottery. He struggled to get any clean looks tonight with Carter on him tonight and just seemed bothered the entire time with him on him. This is now 3 straight really bad shooting nights from the floor for him.

It's easy to play defense when you know the refs won't actually call a foul on you. Young was repeatedly hacked in the first half yet couldn't buy a call.

its called defense

[Leslie Forman]

Ya but I'm not going to bank on that if I'm going to take him in the lottery. He struggled to get any clean looks tonight with Carter on him tonight and just seemed bothered the entire time with him on him. This is now 3 straight really bad shooting nights from the floor for him.

It's easy to play defense when you know the refs won't actually call a foul on you. Young was repeatedly hacked in the first half yet couldn't buy a call.

I don't think Trae got an unfair whistle today at all.

We were not watching the same game then.

There were numerous uncalled fouls in the first half that would have been called in the pros, or even just at a home game.

[Duke4life831]

It's easy to play defense when you know the refs won't actually call a foul on you. Young was repeatedly hacked in the first half yet couldn't buy a call.

I don't think Trae got an unfair whistle today at all.

We were not watching the same game then.

There were numerous uncalled fouls in the first half that would have been called in the pros, or even just at a home game.

It's defense. Of course there are going to be a few calls missed, Young is going to seem to get more than others because of how high his usage is. Just like there were a few missed calls against him in the 1st half, I thought he got the benefit of a few calls as well.

A few missed calls in a half doesn't make up for the fact he couldn't get any quality shots and settled for some horrible shots way too often. Carter is a great defender, but Young is going to be facing even bigger and more athletic guys every single night in the NBA. Carter would be considered a small PG in the NBA.

Again I think Young is a fantastic college player (never doubted it), but I have major question marks on how he will handle bigger and stronger guys. I'm not trying to pick on him because he had a bad game. Like I said a couple weeks ago, this was the game I was really curious on how he was going to handle. He handled it how I expected. Settled for a lot of had shots and turned it over a lot. I just think he's going to struggle against NBA sized guards.

[Leslie Forman]

It's defense. Of course there are going to be a few calls missed, Young is going to seem to get more than others because of how high his usage is. Just like there were a few missed calls against him in the 1st half, I thought he got the benefit of a few calls as well.

A few missed calls in a half doesn't make up for the fact he couldn't get any quality shots and settled for some horrible shots way too often. Carter is a great defender, but Young is going to be facing even bigger and more athletic guys every single night in the NBA. Carter would be considered a small PG in the NBA.

Again I think Young is a fantastic college player (never doubted it), but I have major question marks on how he will handle bigger and stronger guys. I'm not trying to pick on him because he had a bad game. Like I said a couple weeks ago, this was the game I was really curious on how he was going to handle. He handled it how I expected. Settled for a lot of had shots and turned it over a lot. I just think he's going to struggle against NBA sized guards.

He will not get "guarded" in the NBA like he did in that first half, ever. Guys like Beverley and Smart don't even get away with the hacks WV was getting away with in the first half. Yes they called it better after halftime, when I assume the OU staff complained like hell, but it never should have even come to that.

Horrible shots are basically what scoring point guards in the NBA specialize in. The fact that he is as good at them as he is at just 19 is remarkable and you would expect as he gains strength and experience that those will actually become easier shots and he will be even better at knowing the nuances of drawing fouls and playing off-the-ball.

Of course, he could fail to develop enough but that's true of literally everyone. I find it strange that Young is only 19 and the least physically mature prospect at the top yet people are assuming he's done developing.

[Duke4life831]

It's defense. Of course there are going to be a few calls missed, Young is going to seem to get more than others because of how high his usage is. Just like there were a few missed calls against him in the 1st half, I thought he got the benefit of a few calls as well.

A few missed calls in a half doesn't make up for the fact he couldn't get any quality shots and settled for some horrible shots way too often. Carter is a great defender, but Young is going to be facing even bigger and more athletic guys every single night in the NBA. Carter would be considered a small PG in the NBA.

Again I think Young is a fantastic college player (never doubted it), but I have major question marks on how he will handle bigger and stronger guys. I'm not trying to pick on him because he had a bad game. Like I said a couple weeks ago, this was the game I was really curious on how he was going to handle. He handled it how I expected. Settled for a lot of had shots and turned it over a lot. I just think he's going to struggle against NBA sized guards.

He will not get "guarded" in the NBA like he did in that first half, ever. Guys like Beverley and Smart don't even get away with the hacks WV was getting away with in the first half. Yes they called it better after halftime, when I assume the OU staff complained like hell, but it never should have even come to that.

Horrible shots are basically what scoring point guards in the NBA specialize in. The fact that he is as good at them as he is at just 19 is remarkable and you would expect as he gains strength and experience that those will actually become easier shots and he will be even better at knowing the nuances of drawing fouls and playing off-the-ball.

Of course, he could fail to develop enough but that's true of literally everyone. I find it strange that Young is only 19 and the least physically mature prospect at the top yet people are assuming he's done developing.

I think your exaggerating just how physical they were with him. They were no doubt physical with him, but I didn't think it was over the top or anything.

And I agree if he can make tough shots constantly then all the other stuff doesn't matter. But so far in his 3 conference games here are his shooting numbers 38/31/86. Then he has 29 assists to 21 TOs. Now yes a very small sample size, but the majority of his out of conference games were against mid majors that won't make the tournament.

Again I think and have always thought he was going to be a fantastic college PG. I just have had and still have major question marks on how his game is going to translate against NBA sized guards and fantastic athletes. He's always struggled shooting in high school when he played against legit sized players in all the global events. The Big 12 is a huge step up from out of conference play, then the NBA is even a bigger step up.