Luka Doncic Part III

[mabundo_nagumbe]

Joe Ingles is his lowest floor possible, but you are entitled to your own opinion ofc.

In my opininon, what daoneandonly is saying is not even an opinion (it is a super boring fact), because he never actually argumented anything. His only notion is, that he will not be a superstar, because of a statistical improbability. But superstars are superstars exactly because there is such a low probability that someone will be so much better than other players, and only when they achieve this status, they are called superstars. He never gets beyond (or around) this fact (this is what makes the word superstar meaningful) , that it is unlikley for this to happen. And it is totaly meaningles to argue about this whole probability thing. You guys are really feeding a troll. He never argued about what he thinks are his serious limitations AND HOW DO WE KNOW THAT THIS IS TRUE (the best eample of this would be that guy who watched him in fenerbahce and made an analysis of olympiacos games, i think it's Lavta or something like that).
he only tells us, what is true in EVERY THING THAT CONCERNS FUTURE when it concerns humans, i.e. that it is statisticaly unlikley that he will be above average. But we all know that, so why even argue with him, it's pointless.

Actually I've mentioned his utter lack of speed and quickness even though he's a teenager, a damn teenager and he can be outrun by a 30 something. As a Mavs fan I can't stand James harden, but shame on any of you that dare compare Doncic to harden. harden is 47 times the player Doncic is, attacks the rim better, shoots far better, is quicker, and dare I say is even a better defender, and that's saying something. I won't say stronger cause that's expected at their respective ages

Doncic is already a poor defender against C- competition, what is he going to do when he has to guard the likes of a Westbrook, George, Curry, Thompson, Lillard, McCollum, CP3, Harden, Wall, Beal, Irving, Hayward, Derozen, I'll tell you what he's going to play matador defense and let them have career days.

Enough of an argument about his flawed Euroball guard game?

I didn't compare him to Harden, you just did. And as you have just showed, it's not much of a comparison, because Harden is (to some extent) already a developed player, while Luka is still 19 and has YEARS to develop. So I don't understand what is your point, but as I have proved earlier, you have none, so this is my last thing i'm going to write, when it concerns your non existing argumentation

[Bob8]

Mirotic12 strikes again. I dont get it how someone is into european basketball this much and claims ekpe udoh wasn't dominating in fenerbahce. Gtfo man.

Udoh was very important for Fener. But that in numbers means 12/6.5 guy.

http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=Single&seasoncode=E2016&cat=TotalRebounds&agg=Accumulated

He was the leading rebounder in Euroleague. Do you realize you play about 28 minutes in Euroleague and don't have 15 rpg like nba.

Of course. Doncic is having 17/5/4.5 in only 25 minutes. Udoh was playing 32 minutes in his second season. Udoh was great rim protector in Euroleague. I just wrote down his numbers, because some Americans for sure think he was 20/15 guy in Europe. One important reason why Udoh was good in Europe and bad in Nba are rules. Especially no defensive 3 seconds in the pain rule. Udoh was protecting the rim all day long.

[UcanUwill]

Dominating is subjective word. I would say Udoh was easily one of the best bigs, but you consider him dominant is up to you, his numbers werent very dominant. I would say De Colo or Doncic are clearly dominant.

[daoneandonly]

In my opininon, what daoneandonly is saying is not even an opinion (it is a super boring fact), because he never actually argumented anything. His only notion is, that he will not be a superstar, because of a statistical improbability. But superstars are superstars exactly because there is such a low probability that someone will be so much better than other players, and only when they achieve this status, they are called superstars. He never gets beyond (or around) this fact (this is what makes the word superstar meaningful) , that it is unlikley for this to happen. And it is totaly meaningles to argue about this whole probability thing. You guys are really feeding a troll. He never argued about what he thinks are his serious limitations AND HOW DO WE KNOW THAT THIS IS TRUE (the best eample of this would be that guy who watched him in fenerbahce and made an analysis of olympiacos games, i think it's Lavta or something like that).
he only tells us, what is true in EVERY THING THAT CONCERNS FUTURE when it concerns humans, i.e. that it is statisticaly unlikley that he will be above average. But we all know that, so why even argue with him, it's pointless.

Actually I've mentioned his utter lack of speed and quickness even though he's a teenager, a damn teenager and he can be outrun by a 30 something. As a Mavs fan I can't stand James harden, but shame on any of you that dare compare Doncic to harden. harden is 47 times the player Doncic is, attacks the rim better, shoots far better, is quicker, and dare I say is even a better defender, and that's saying something. I won't say stronger cause that's expected at their respective ages

Doncic is already a poor defender against C- competition, what is he going to do when he has to guard the likes of a Westbrook, George, Curry, Thompson, Lillard, McCollum, CP3, Harden, Wall, Beal, Irving, Hayward, Derozen, I'll tell you what he's going to play matador defense and let them have career days.

Enough of an argument about his flawed Euroball guard game?

I didn't compare him to Harden, you just did. And as you have just showed, it's not much of a comparison, because Harden is (to some extent) already a developed player, while Luka is still 19 and has YEARS to develop. So I don't understand what is your point, but as I have proved earlier, you have none, so this is my last thing i'm going to write, when it concerns your non existing argumentation

I said shame on ANY of you that compared him to harden, that was a call to the Doncic fanboys, not you directly. How do you develop speed? This is not conditioning or hititng the weight room to develop your body, it's speed. Doncic does not have it, and I highly doubt he's going to develop his defensive game when he'll be playing against much better players in the NBA. But yeah, go ahead and ignore those points because it does not jive with praising Eur(o) (see what i did there?) chosen one.

[daoneandonly]

I've stopped talking historical precedence about prior Euro guards, now I'm talking skill sets. How is Luka's lack of speed/lateral quickness for someone his age and his ineptness on defense going to pan out to super stardom in the big leagues?

[Bob8]

I've stopped talking historical precedence about prior Euro guards, now I'm talking skill sets. How is Luka's lack of speed/lateral quickness for someone his age and his ineptness on defense going to pan out to super stardom in the big leagues?

I doubt anybody wants to talk to you anymore.

[daoneandonly]

I've stopped talking historical precedence about prior Euro guards, now I'm talking skill sets. How is Luka's lack of speed/lateral quickness for someone his age and his ineptness on defense going to pan out to super stardom in the big leagues?

I doubt anybody wants to talk to you anymore.

Cause there's nothing to back up the argument for Doncic given those 2 weaknesses. You were just quick to respond to the Rubio thing, so clearly you guys can't deny he has some serious flaws in his game.

[UcanUwill]

I've stopped talking historical precedence about prior Euro guards, now I'm talking skill sets. How is Luka's lack of speed/lateral quickness for someone his age and his ineptness on defense going to pan out to super stardom in the big leagues?

James Harden isnt that much faster, he gets away with amzing handle. And DOncic has a semblense of that, thats why they are being compared. Doncic is on track, if he reaches that level, is a question for sure. Every top prospect is being compared to hall of famers, thats just what we do when we talking about ceiling.

[Bob8]

I've stopped talking historical precedence about prior Euro guards, now I'm talking skill sets. How is Luka's lack of speed/lateral quickness for someone his age and his ineptness on defense going to pan out to super stardom in the big leagues?

I doubt anybody wants to talk to you anymore.

Cause there's nothing to back up the argument for Doncic given those 2 weaknesses. You were just quick to respond to the Rubio thing, so clearly you guys can't deny he has some serious flaws in his game.

No, his totally without flaws. He’s better than LeBron at the moment and he will be only better. Ayton is better than prime Robinson and Bagley better than AD.

[Rn5ho]

I've stopped talking historical precedence about prior Euro guards, now I'm talking skill sets. How is Luka's lack of speed/lateral quickness for someone his age and his ineptness on defense going to pan out to super stardom in the big leagues?

"Ineptness on defense" is a bullcrap that doesn't hold the water. He's not elite defender, but he's nowhere near inept. Stop picking up old stuff that people were throwing around 6-12 months ago. Yes, he's not quick enough to defend Westbrook, but who is!? Who can actually defend such players 1 on 1?

Luka is great team defender. He makes mistakes - but who doesn't?! He's n.1 offensive option, playing the most minutes on team and obviously it shows at times by putting less effort in defense.

Watch on YouTube

Does this make Lebron a bad defender? I don't think so. Stop using this myth that Luka is horrible defender and throw it around as a fact. He's not horrible, he's average.

His quickness is not elite, true. But neither is Harden's. Harden has elite handle and deceleration and strength, also extremely crafty and high BBIQ. These are also Luka's biggest advantages.

https://youtu.be/PQ6GU4unGEg?t=13m - this is the kind of moves we see from Harden all the time. This is the kind of move we see from Luka all the time. Why would this not translate?

Watch on YouTube

Is here something so special that Luka couldn't do or didn't demonstrate yet?

But please for the love of god, don't take this as me saying that Luka = Harden. He is NOT. But he shows glimpses of game that Harden is showing on daily basis. And they share a lot of similar characteristics. That's all - potential is there, but we will see how much of it Luka will actually develop/fulfill.

Luka will never be an athletic freak nor get to the basket like Westbrook. But he has a lot of other weapons.

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2018/02/27/2018-nba-prospect-report-part-4-luka-doncic/3/

Here you can read them talking about his plus deceleration - if I'm not mistaken, it was measured to be near Harden level, or at least in top 97th percentile or something - literally currently already around top of NBA. If someone could find that article (was it from P3? Maybe somewhere else?) where they talked about this, that would be great.

[agentofatlas]

I've stopped talking historical precedence about prior Euro guards, now I'm talking skill sets. How is Luka's lack of speed/lateral quickness for someone his age and his ineptness on defense going to pan out to super stardom in the big leagues?

First, I don't think he's that slow.

Second, I don't think he's inept on defense.

Weirdly enough I don't see defense as a big deal breaker for him compared to Ayton or Bagely. Out of those 3 he's the easiest to hide.

[daoneandonly]

I've stopped talking historical precedence about prior Euro guards, now I'm talking skill sets. How is Luka's lack of speed/lateral quickness for someone his age and his ineptness on defense going to pan out to super stardom in the big leagues?

First, I don't think he's that slow.

Second, I don't think he's inept on defense.

Weirdly enough I don't see defense as a big deal breaker for him compared to Ayton or Bagely. Out of those 3 he's the easiest to hide.

But people are rightfully concerned and talking about Ayton and Bagley's defense, as they are Bamba's offense. Doncic supporters are praising him as if he has no warts whatsoever when he clearly does.

[mabundo_nagumbe]

Actually I've mentioned his utter lack of speed and quickness even though he's a teenager, a damn teenager and he can be outrun by a 30 something. As a Mavs fan I can't stand James harden, but shame on any of you that dare compare Doncic to harden. harden is 47 times the player Doncic is, attacks the rim better, shoots far better, is quicker, and dare I say is even a better defender, and that's saying something. I won't say stronger cause that's expected at their respective ages

Doncic is already a poor defender against C- competition, what is he going to do when he has to guard the likes of a Westbrook, George, Curry, Thompson, Lillard, McCollum, CP3, Harden, Wall, Beal, Irving, Hayward, Derozen, I'll tell you what he's going to play matador defense and let them have career days.

Enough of an argument about his flawed Euroball guard game?

I didn't compare him to Harden, you just did. And as you have just showed, it's not much of a comparison, because Harden is (to some extent) already a developed player, while Luka is still 19 and has YEARS to develop. So I don't understand what is your point, but as I have proved earlier, you have none, so this is my last thing i'm going to write, when it concerns your non existing argumentation

I said shame on ANY of you that compared him to harden, that was a call to the Doncic fanboys, not you directly. How do you develop speed? This is not conditioning or hititng the weight room to develop your body, it's speed. Doncic does not have it, and I highly doubt he's going to develop his defensive game when he'll be playing against much better players in the NBA. But yeah, go ahead and ignore those points because it does not jive with praising Eur(o) (see what i did there?) chosen one.

We already know that he is limited when it comes to latteral quicknes and defense, and we have known that for a really long time. There is nothing new that you brought to this debate, except that you hate fanatism and Our(os) (see what I did there, I'm so smart lol). And although you could say that me or most of guys here are Lukas fanboys, it didn't come by chance or out of thin air, you have at least 150 pages of discussion on why it so. Wether you like it or not, he is a phenomenoa that we are not used to, and we are gonna keep watching him and talk about him, and there is no way you are gonna persuade us of doing otherwise with pointing out the same stuff, that we already know, over and over and over again.

[daoneandonly]

I didn't compare him to Harden, you just did. And as you have just showed, it's not much of a comparison, because Harden is (to some extent) already a developed player, while Luka is still 19 and has YEARS to develop. So I don't understand what is your point, but as I have proved earlier, you have none, so this is my last thing i'm going to write, when it concerns your non existing argumentation

I said shame on ANY of you that compared him to harden, that was a call to the Doncic fanboys, not you directly. How do you develop speed? This is not conditioning or hititng the weight room to develop your body, it's speed. Doncic does not have it, and I highly doubt he's going to develop his defensive game when he'll be playing against much better players in the NBA. But yeah, go ahead and ignore those points because it does not jive with praising Eur(o) (see what i did there?) chosen one.

We already know that he is limited when it comes to latteral quicknes and defense, and we have known that for a really long time. There is nothing new that you brought to this debate, except that you hate fanatism and Our(os) (see what I did there, I'm so smart lol). And although you could say that me or most of guys here are Lukas fanboys, it didn't come by chance or out of thin air, you have at least 150 pages of discussion on why it so. Wether you like it or not, he is a phenomenoa that we are not used to, and we are gonna keep watching him and talk about him, and there is no way you are gonna persuade us of doing otherwise with pointing out the same stuff, that we already know, over and over and over again.

So get off my back in my criticisms of him, just like you have the right to be in awe of his game and shower him with praises, I'm going to wait and see until he actually does something superstarish in the NBA, which he never will. he's the love child of Joe Ingles and hedo, will never touch the heights of a superstar in the big leagues. You already know his weaknesses great, we already know his supposed strengths, its been talked about over and over, yet he does it against guys who are not that good, otherwise they'd be in the NBA too.

[agentofatlas]

I've stopped talking historical precedence about prior Euro guards, now I'm talking skill sets. How is Luka's lack of speed/lateral quickness for someone his age and his ineptness on defense going to pan out to super stardom in the big leagues?

First, I don't think he's that slow.

Second, I don't think he's inept on defense.

Weirdly enough I don't see defense as a big deal breaker for him compared to Ayton or Bagely. Out of those 3 he's the easiest to hide.

But people are rightfully concerned and talking about Ayton and Bagley's defense, as they are Bamba's offense. Doncic supporters are praising him as if he has no warts whatsoever when he clearly does.

Yeah sure he has warts but defense is way down the list of my concerns since he is a wing player by size meaning he's easily hide-able. You can easily put him on the weakest player from 1-4.

The question with him really starts with his shooting cause that will really determine his ceiling as a player.

[Rn5ho]

I've stopped talking historical precedence about prior Euro guards, now I'm talking skill sets. How is Luka's lack of speed/lateral quickness for someone his age and his ineptness on defense going to pan out to super stardom in the big leagues?

"Ineptness on defense" is a bullcrap that doesn't hold the water. He's not elite defender, but he's nowhere near inept. Stop picking up old stuff that people were throwing around 6-12 months ago. Yes, he's not quick enough to defend Westbrook, but who is!? Who can actually defend such players 1 on 1?

Luka is great team defender. He makes mistakes - but who doesn't?! He's n.1 offensive option, playing the most minutes on team and obviously it shows at times by putting less effort in defense.

Watch on YouTube

Does this make Lebron a bad defender? I don't think so. Stop using this myth that Luka is horrible defender and throw it around as a fact. He's not horrible, he's average.

His quickness is not elite, true. But neither is Harden's. Harden has elite handle and deceleration and strength, also extremely crafty and high BBIQ. These are also Luka's biggest advantages.

https://youtu.be/PQ6GU4unGEg?t=13m - this is the kind of moves we see from Harden all the time. This is the kind of move we see from Luka all the time. Why would this not translate?

Watch on YouTube

Is here something so special that Luka couldn't do or didn't demonstrate yet?

But please for the love of god, don't take this as me saying that Luka = Harden. He is NOT. But he shows glimpses of game that Harden is showing on daily basis. And they share a lot of similar characteristics. That's all - potential is there, but we will see how much of it Luka will actually develop/fulfill.

Luka will never be an athletic freak nor get to the basket like Westbrook. But he has a lot of other weapons.

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2018/02/27/2018-nba-prospect-report-part-4-luka-doncic/3/

Here you can read them talking about his plus deceleration - if I'm not mistaken, it was measured to be near Harden level, or at least in top 97th percentile or something - literally currently already around top of NBA. If someone could find that article (was it from P3? Maybe somewhere else?) where they talked about this, that would be great.

As per usual, you're avoiding any posts that would challenge you to actually provide opinion/argumentation. Here's your opportunity, to engage in a discussion that has some basis.

[XTraderXL]

Guys, why is anyone responding to this guy? Its been 20 pages of nothing, I cant read this crap. He made his point, we all know what his opinion is and nobody will change it so why bother. Ignore his posts and he will go away, hopefully. If he doesnt just dont reply, problem solved.

[daoneandonly]

I've stopped talking historical precedence about prior Euro guards, now I'm talking skill sets. How is Luka's lack of speed/lateral quickness for someone his age and his ineptness on defense going to pan out to super stardom in the big leagues?

"Ineptness on defense" is a bullcrap that doesn't hold the water. He's not elite defender, but he's nowhere near inept. Stop picking up old stuff that people were throwing around 6-12 months ago. Yes, he's not quick enough to defend Westbrook, but who is!? Who can actually defend such players 1 on 1?

Luka is great team defender. He makes mistakes - but who doesn't?! He's n.1 offensive option, playing the most minutes on team and obviously it shows at times by putting less effort in defense.

Watch on YouTube

Does this make Lebron a bad defender? I don't think so. Stop using this myth that Luka is horrible defender and throw it around as a fact. He's not horrible, he's average.

His quickness is not elite, true. But neither is Harden's. Harden has elite handle and deceleration and strength, also extremely crafty and high BBIQ. These are also Luka's biggest advantages.

https://youtu.be/PQ6GU4unGEg?t=13m - this is the kind of moves we see from Harden all the time. This is the kind of move we see from Luka all the time. Why would this not translate?

Watch on YouTube

Is here something so special that Luka couldn't do or didn't demonstrate yet?

But please for the love of god, don't take this as me saying that Luka = Harden. He is NOT. But he shows glimpses of game that Harden is showing on daily basis. And they share a lot of similar characteristics. That's all - potential is there, but we will see how much of it Luka will actually develop/fulfill.

Luka will never be an athletic freak nor get to the basket like Westbrook. But he has a lot of other weapons.

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2018/02/27/2018-nba-prospect-report-part-4-luka-doncic/3/

Here you can read them talking about his plus deceleration - if I'm not mistaken, it was measured to be near Harden level, or at least in top 97th percentile or something - literally currently already around top of NBA. If someone could find that article (was it from P3? Maybe somewhere else?) where they talked about this, that would be great.

As per usual, you're avoiding any posts that would challenge you to actually provide opinion/argumentation. Here's your opportunity, to engage in a discussion that has some basis.

yeah posting some stupid random video of LBJ is such a strong argument. You said it yourself, Doncic is an average defender, problem is he's average against guys who are not anywhere near the caliber of players he is going to face in the NBA. So if he's average against guys like James Anderson, Bobby Brown , and the like, what is he going to do against true stars? What is he going to do against real talent, he is going to get exposed. You can dismiss it all you want because it does not line up with your hype, but its a valid concern for anyone picking that high. Average D in Euroleague will translate to Putrid D in the NBA

[Rn5ho]

yeah posting some stupid random video of LBJ is such a strong argument. You said it yourself, Doncic is an average defender, problem is he's average against guys who are not anywhere near the caliber of players he is going to face in the NBA. So if he's average against guys like James Anderson, Bobby Brown , and the like, what is he going to do against true stars? What is he going to do against real talent, he is going to get exposed. You can dismiss it all you want because it does not line up with your hype, but its a valid concern for anyone picking that high. Average D in Euroleague will translate to Putrid D in the NBA

Wow. Ok.

I tried.. I really tried to start a normal conversation/discussion with you, even providing you with initial pointers to start off, but you straight up refuse to talk anything other than historical "facts". Taking things so heavily out of context. You seriously are a lost case.

Block list it is.. though it will be completely useless, since people keep quoting you.

[daoneandonly]

yeah posting some stupid random video of LBJ is such a strong argument. You said it yourself, Doncic is an average defender, problem is he's average against guys who are not anywhere near the caliber of players he is going to face in the NBA. So if he's average against guys like James Anderson, Bobby Brown , and the like, what is he going to do against true stars? What is he going to do against real talent, he is going to get exposed. You can dismiss it all you want because it does not line up with your hype, but its a valid concern for anyone picking that high. Average D in Euroleague will translate to Putrid D in the NBA

Wow. Ok.

Exactly, let's agree to stop responding to one another or talk about the other post in our own post, keep me and my name out of yours, I'll respectfully do the same.