Cooper Flagg - Duke

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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#441 » by CptCrunch » Mon Dec 16, 2024 3:29 pm

FarBeyondDriven wrote:
FarBeyondDriven wrote:
bigboi wrote:
You’re flat out wrong lmao. Tatum’s job was never to be a facilitator. I watch quite a bit of Celtics basketball. Flagg isn’t a better prospect than Tatum either lmao. Tatum’s offensive game was way more advanced. These lies need to stop. Once again, the way yall describe Flagg, he sounds like a worse version of Ben Simmons. Simmons did everything that Flagg does just better and that isn’t a number 1 pick


it's you who is flat out wrong. the offense literally runs through Tatum and has for years. Everyone plays off him which is why they shoot so many threes because he commands double teams and it leaves shooters wide open. That's literally his job. PnR to get a switch if necessary, break down his man to get his shot and if help comes over dish to wide open shooter. He's obviously not a point guard but he facilitates for others which is why his assists have hovered around 5 per game for the past several seasons.

Here's what I'm talking about. If this isn't facilitating I don't know what it means then

;t=6s


you don't seem to remember college Tatum and are embellishing current Tatum. He doesn't attack the basket. His "bag" consists of mid-range dancing and step back jumpers. The reason he's a good scorer is because his release is so high and he creates enough separation with his feints, jab steps and step backs. But he wasn't doing much of that in college. College isn't conducive to wings having the space to operate that way which is why Melo being able to do it was so damn impressive. Flagg might not have all that wiggle but he, unlike Tatum, can attack the rim and he has a pull up mid-range jumper which oddly enough isn't something Tatum ever did. Based on his athleticism, size, advanced playmaking at his age and defense, Flagg is a better prospect than Tatum. But he has a lot of work to do if he wants to become as good of a pro as him.


Preach; there is so much Tatum revisionism on these boards. A mid-range loving wing without, but with hopes of developing, a 3 point shot, bad shot diet, average atheleticism, and budding mediocre playmaking skills was Tatum pre-draft.

Tatum developed all these things in the league - I think his bigger fans should remeber the 'Tatum is still 19 meme' for how young (and underdeveloped) he was. Except Cooper is even younger than Tatum.

Anyone trying to argue Tatum was better than Cooper in college is not arguing with good faith or is simply resembling the word delusional.
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#442 » by tontoz » Mon Dec 16, 2024 3:45 pm

While Flagg isn't as good as some of us were expecting i think it is a pretty safe bet he goes top 2. I have a hard time seeing him drop to 3.

Is a GM going to take Tre/Kasparas/Ace/Egor over him? I seriously doubt it.
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#443 » by clyde21 » Mon Dec 16, 2024 5:04 pm

too much Jay-T revisionism, Coop so far has been a better player at Duke than Jay T was at Duke, that's just a fact. people need to stop letting what happens in the NBA retroactively shape their takes about players coming out.
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#444 » by HadAnEffectHere » Mon Dec 16, 2024 6:50 pm

bigboi wrote:
HadAnEffectHere wrote:Ben Simmons was an experiment to see what would happen if LeBron hated basketball and was terrified of failure.

Simmons was a historically bad shooter whereas Flagg is just not a good shooter.

Simmons also just literally never got better at anything on offense from when he was a 17 year old.

Flagg right now is a more athletic Scottie Barnes and Scottie Barnes is good idk.

Flagg with Barnes' level of shooting is a fringe top 25 player whereas Flagg with a good jumpshot is like the 6th to 10th best player in the league.


Buddy, Flagg is a historically bad shooter. It’s hilarious how yall keep acting like Flagg is a good shooter. The guy is shooting 42% lmao and 22% from 3. Miss me with the nonsense. Flagg will never be the passer that Simmons is either


In what areas is Flagg worse than Scottie Barnes in college?
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#445 » by JMAC3 » Mon Dec 16, 2024 7:16 pm

bigboi wrote:Once again, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Tatum’s game IS completely based on skill rather than athleticism which makes the Flagg comparison even more nonsense. And yes, his bag IS MUCH better than Flagg.


Flagg ISNT even close to Tatum as a ball handler


So your argument is 26 year old MVP Candidate is better much better and more skilled than 17 year old Cooper Flagg?

Where do you get your ideas. Brilliant.
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#446 » by Benjammin » Mon Dec 16, 2024 8:32 pm

I feel dumber for reading some of these posts.
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#447 » by sikma42 » Mon Dec 16, 2024 8:39 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
bigboi wrote:Once again, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Tatum’s game IS completely based on skill rather than athleticism which makes the Flagg comparison even more nonsense. And yes, his bag IS MUCH better than Flagg.


Flagg ISNT even close to Tatum as a ball handler


So your argument is 26 year old MVP Candidate is better much better and more skilled than 17 year old Cooper Flagg?

Where do you get your ideas. Brilliant.


Tatum showed the base for that skill back in high school. Flagg hasn't shown the base to build up to that level of skill. Not saying he needs to..but his game is based primarily on his freakish athleticism. At this point he isn't very skilled as a shooter or ball handler.
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#448 » by BigGargamel » Mon Dec 16, 2024 8:56 pm

tontoz wrote:While Flagg isn't as good as some of us were expecting i think it is a pretty safe bet he goes top 2. I have a hard time seeing him drop to 3.

Is a GM going to take Tre/Kasparas/Ace/Egor over him? I seriously doubt it.


It's still super early, of course, but I have an extremely tough time seeing anyone other than Flagg/Harper going 1 and 2. That would be a pretty big swerve.
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#449 » by tontoz » Mon Dec 16, 2024 11:27 pm

This guy's vids are pretty good.

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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#450 » by FarBeyondDriven » Tue Dec 17, 2024 3:38 am

bigboi wrote:
FarBeyondDriven wrote:
bigboi wrote:
You’re flat out wrong lmao. Tatum’s job was never to be a facilitator. I watch quite a bit of Celtics basketball. Flagg isn’t a better prospect than Tatum either lmao. Tatum’s offensive game was way more advanced. These lies need to stop. Once again, the way yall describe Flagg, he sounds like a worse version of Ben Simmons. Simmons did everything that Flagg does just better and that isn’t a number 1 pick


it's you who is flat out wrong. the offense literally runs through Tatum and has for years. Everyone plays off him which is why they shoot so many threes because he commands double teams and it leaves shooters wide open. That's literally his job. PnR to get a switch if necessary, break down his man to get his shot and if help comes over dish to wide open shooter. He's obviously not a point guard but he facilitates for others which is why his assists have hovered around 5 per game for the past several seasons.

Here's what I'm talking about. If this isn't facilitating I don't know what it means then

;t=6s


Offense running through Tatum and Brown doesn’t mean that they’re the facilitator. Once again, you don’t know what you’re talking about lmao. Smart, Holiday, White have been the primary Celtics facilitators in the past. Please stop talking Celtics basketball because you’re embarrassing yourself.


bro, you're really clueless, even about your own team :lol: Quick, tell me who leads the Celtics in assists this season. Who finished 2nd in assists the past two seasons? I'll give you a hint, it's the facilitator that the offense goes through i.e. Tatum. The assists Jrue and White get for the most part are swinging the ball around to an open shooter off Tatum and Brown's action. Do you even watch the Celtics??!
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#451 » by FarBeyondDriven » Tue Dec 17, 2024 3:51 am

sikma42 wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
bigboi wrote:Once again, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Tatum’s game IS completely based on skill rather than athleticism which makes the Flagg comparison even more nonsense. And yes, his bag IS MUCH better than Flagg.


Flagg ISNT even close to Tatum as a ball handler


So your argument is 26 year old MVP Candidate is better much better and more skilled than 17 year old Cooper Flagg?

Where do you get your ideas. Brilliant.


Tatum showed the base for that skill back in high school. Flagg hasn't shown the base to build up to that level of skill. Not saying he needs to..but his game is based primarily on his freakish athleticism. At this point he isn't very skilled as a shooter or ball handler.


I watched several of Flagg's game and he wasn't concerned with scoring as he liked to get everyone involved and impact the game on both ends. Had he wanted to he could have matched Tatum's productions and shown off similar skills. Sometimes I think Flagg is a little too unselfish which is why I can't fault people for thinking he's going to be more of an elite #2 like JJJ, AD, KG type than #1. I think with a more wide open NBA he'll be a matchup nightmare and you'll see more aggression so there's potential he can be a #1 like Banchero but with great defense.
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#452 » by JustBuzzin » Tue Dec 17, 2024 1:35 pm

Flagg is locked in that #2 spot. Sure his jumpshot is questionable, but he has all the other tools to be successful. If he can improve that jumpshot then maybe he can get that #1 spot back at the end of the season.

Right now Harper is #1 and I wouldn't think twice about it. He looks like a Harden clone. Put the ball in his hands and he's a franchise player from day 1. Guys who step up in crunch time have that it factor. This kid is cold blooded!
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#453 » by SeattleJazzFan » Tue Dec 17, 2024 2:09 pm

HadAnEffectHere wrote:
bigboi wrote:
HadAnEffectHere wrote:Ben Simmons was an experiment to see what would happen if LeBron hated basketball and was terrified of failure.

Simmons was a historically bad shooter whereas Flagg is just not a good shooter.

Simmons also just literally never got better at anything on offense from when he was a 17 year old.

Flagg right now is a more athletic Scottie Barnes and Scottie Barnes is good idk.

Flagg with Barnes' level of shooting is a fringe top 25 player whereas Flagg with a good jumpshot is like the 6th to 10th best player in the league.


Buddy, Flagg is a historically bad shooter. It’s hilarious how yall keep acting like Flagg is a good shooter. The guy is shooting 42% lmao and 22% from 3. Miss me with the nonsense. Flagg will never be the passer that Simmons is either


In what areas is Flagg worse than Scottie Barnes in college?


i don't think anybody ever answered you and that's rude.

Barnes was a better shooter overall from the field - 50% FGs to 43% FGs. A better 3pt shooter, 28% 3pt to 22% 3pt. 55% TS to 51% TS, a better playmaker/passer - 32% ast% to 23% ast%.

i hope that answered the question!
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#454 » by HadAnEffectHere » Tue Dec 17, 2024 4:15 pm

SeattleJazzFan wrote:
HadAnEffectHere wrote:
bigboi wrote:
Buddy, Flagg is a historically bad shooter. It’s hilarious how yall keep acting like Flagg is a good shooter. The guy is shooting 42% lmao and 22% from 3. Miss me with the nonsense. Flagg will never be the passer that Simmons is either


In what areas is Flagg worse than Scottie Barnes in college?


i don't think anybody ever answered you and that's rude.

Barnes was a better shooter overall from the field - 50% FGs to 43% FGs. A better 3pt shooter, 28% 3pt to 22% 3pt. 55% TS to 51% TS, a better playmaker/passer - 32% ast% to 23% ast%.

i hope that answered the question!


Yeah, if Flagg continues shooting 22% from three, I will be much less high on him, but I'm pretty certain he's going to end up around 27-31% from three (which will drag the other numbers up to Barnes' as well on much higher USG)
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#455 » by God Squad » Tue Dec 17, 2024 5:37 pm

SeattleJazzFan wrote:
HadAnEffectHere wrote:
bigboi wrote:
Buddy, Flagg is a historically bad shooter. It’s hilarious how yall keep acting like Flagg is a good shooter. The guy is shooting 42% lmao and 22% from 3. Miss me with the nonsense. Flagg will never be the passer that Simmons is either


In what areas is Flagg worse than Scottie Barnes in college?


i don't think anybody ever answered you and that's rude.

Barnes was a better shooter overall from the field - 50% FGs to 43% FGs. A better 3pt shooter, 28% 3pt to 22% 3pt. 55% TS to 51% TS, a better playmaker/passer - 32% ast% to 23% ast%.

i hope that answered the question!

That's pretty much why "fit-wise" Flagg is an odd one for the Raptors. Meanwhile, the Ace/Harper fit seems a lot better construction.
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#456 » by azcatz11 » Tue Dec 17, 2024 7:47 pm

I'm just going to come out and say it. This Duke team is trash without Flagg. I'm actually surprised at the lack of talent they have. If it wasn't for Flagg and you replaced with him an above average starter they'd be a 500 team. He's carrying the load
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#457 » by Braggins » Wed Dec 18, 2024 3:42 am

Flagg's 3pt volume is double what Barnes was and he is shooting 10% better from the free throw line. His shot mechanics are also better. Id be surprised if he wasn't a better shooter than Barnes long term.
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#458 » by bigboi » Wed Dec 18, 2024 7:29 am

FarBeyondDriven wrote:
sikma42 wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
So your argument is 26 year old MVP Candidate is better much better and more skilled than 17 year old Cooper Flagg?

Where do you get your ideas. Brilliant.


Tatum showed the base for that skill back in high school. Flagg hasn't shown the base to build up to that level of skill. Not saying he needs to..but his game is based primarily on his freakish athleticism. At this point he isn't very skilled as a shooter or ball handler.


I watched several of Flagg's game and he wasn't concerned with scoring as he liked to get everyone involved and impact the game on both ends. Had he wanted to he could have matched Tatum's productions and shown off similar skills. Sometimes I think Flagg is a little too unselfish which is why I can't fault people for thinking he's going to be more of an elite #2 like JJJ, AD, KG type than #1. I think with a more wide open NBA he'll be a matchup nightmare and you'll see more aggression so there's potential he can be a #1 like Banchero but with great defense.


7/20. You can miss me with that unselfish bs. This thread is filled with opinion divorced from reality. Flagg is HORRIBLE as a scorer. Not mediocre, not below average, he’s legit having an all time bad scoring season for a hyped big man and may very well shoot under 40% on the season. He isn’t Tatum and will never be Tatum. Tatum is on a whole different stratosphere offensively compared to Flagg.

Flagg can’t dribble, can’t shoot, has a weak first step, athleticism isn’t as good as some people think here. Big men in college typically have much better efficiency stats than wings. There’s literally no excuse for Flagg except accepting reality. Flagg is a role player and that’s how he will succeed. A high motor player. Nothing about him screams top 2 option on a team because of his drafted team forces him into a scoring role then he will fail just like here
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Lebron made it to the finals with that cleveland team.

Bird would have won 4 rings with that team, in this weak ass era of basketball.
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#459 » by bigboi » Wed Dec 18, 2024 7:34 am

JMAC3 wrote:
bigboi wrote:Once again, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Tatum’s game IS completely based on skill rather than athleticism which makes the Flagg comparison even more nonsense. And yes, his bag IS MUCH better than Flagg.


Flagg ISNT even close to Tatum as a ball handler


So your argument is 26 year old MVP Candidate is better much better and more skilled than 17 year old Cooper Flagg?

Where do you get your ideas. Brilliant.


You’re not getting it. Tatum has always been more advanced than Flagg offensively no matter what stage. Flagg is a weak offensive prospect. I already said Flagg isn’t even Simmons level offensively
tlee324 wrote:
Lebron made it to the finals with that cleveland team.

Bird would have won 4 rings with that team, in this weak ass era of basketball.
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Re: Cooper Flagg - Duke 

Post#460 » by bigboi » Wed Dec 18, 2024 7:39 am

CptCrunch wrote:
FarBeyondDriven wrote:
FarBeyondDriven wrote:
it's you who is flat out wrong. the offense literally runs through Tatum and has for years. Everyone plays off him which is why they shoot so many threes because he commands double teams and it leaves shooters wide open. That's literally his job. PnR to get a switch if necessary, break down his man to get his shot and if help comes over dish to wide open shooter. He's obviously not a point guard but he facilitates for others which is why his assists have hovered around 5 per game for the past several seasons.

Here's what I'm talking about. If this isn't facilitating I don't know what it means then

;t=6s


you don't seem to remember college Tatum and are embellishing current Tatum. He doesn't attack the basket. His "bag" consists of mid-range dancing and step back jumpers. The reason he's a good scorer is because his release is so high and he creates enough separation with his feints, jab steps and step backs. But he wasn't doing much of that in college. College isn't conducive to wings having the space to operate that way which is why Melo being able to do it was so damn impressive. Flagg might not have all that wiggle but he, unlike Tatum, can attack the rim and he has a pull up mid-range jumper which oddly enough isn't something Tatum ever did. Based on his athleticism, size, advanced playmaking at his age and defense, Flagg is a better prospect than Tatum. But he has a lot of work to do if he wants to become as good of a pro as him.


Preach; there is so much Tatum revisionism on these boards. A mid-range loving wing without, but with hopes of developing, a 3 point shot, bad shot diet, average atheleticism, and budding mediocre playmaking skills was Tatum pre-draft.

Tatum developed all these things in the league - I think his bigger fans should remeber the 'Tatum is still 19 meme' for how young (and underdeveloped) he was. Except Cooper is even younger than Tatum.

Anyone trying to argue Tatum was better than Cooper in college is not arguing with good faith or is simply resembling the word delusional.


No, you guys are just flat out wrong. Being a better player doesn’t equal being a better prospect. Josh Jackson was a way better player than Tatum in college and actually had similar stats to Flagg, but wasnt a better prospect than Tatum. It doesn’t matter where you evaluate Flagg, he’s not holding candle to Tatum at any point of Tatum’s career as Tatum was much more advanced offensively. Any other talk is delusion
tlee324 wrote:
Lebron made it to the finals with that cleveland team.

Bird would have won 4 rings with that team, in this weak ass era of basketball.

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