Kon Knueppel

[ReggiesKnicks]

I think his defense right now actually is bad.

it definitely is. But nobody really factors that or wins/losses when evaluating young players apparently. Guess I'm the resident "hater" for not fawning all over him like everyone else. I think all these 3 and no D, athletically challenged, defensive liability types, shooting guards are mostly all the same.

Duncan Robinson
Klay Thompson
Kevin Huerter
Gradey Dick
Bojan Bogdanovic
Jordan Hawkins
Dalton Knecht
Corey Kispert

Once defense is expected, teams actively game plan to stop them and they're no longer on losing teams getting heavy usage they all seem to lose value unless they settle in as a #4 or lower role player. I honestly like Kon more than all of them but not enough to believe he'll be able to escape the same fate entirely.

And until he's proving to be "the real deal" as a #3 or above on a winning team, nobody should be taking victory laps if they were higher on him than others nor taking Ls if they were lower.

The cool thing about the list of players you have selected is Kon is already clearly better than half of them ever were and is still just 20 years old.

This idea that he somehow needs to be boxed in to some box is a bit perplexing given the vast skill-set he has shown compared to every player you listed there (Minus Bojan, but I think you meant Bogdan).

[FarBeyondDriven]

I think his defense right now actually is bad.

it definitely is. But nobody really factors that or wins/losses when evaluating young players apparently. Guess I'm the resident "hater" for not fawning all over him like everyone else. I think all these 3 and no D, athletically challenged, defensive liability types, shooting guards are mostly all the same.

Duncan Robinson
Klay Thompson
Kevin Huerter
Gradey Dick
Bojan Bogdanovic
Jordan Hawkins
Dalton Knecht
Corey Kispert

Once defense is expected, teams actively game plan to stop them and they're no longer on losing teams getting heavy usage they all seem to lose value unless they settle in as a #4 or lower role player. I honestly like Kon more than all of them but not enough to believe he'll be able to escape the same fate entirely.

And until he's proving to be "the real deal" as a #3 or above on a winning team, nobody should be taking victory laps if they were higher on him than others nor taking Ls if they were lower.

The cool thing about the list of players you have selected is Kon is already clearly better than half of them ever were and is still just 20 years old.

This idea that he somehow needs to be boxed in to some box is a bit perplexing given the vast skill-set he has shown compared to every player you listed there (Minus Bojan, but I think you meant Bogdan).

Yes I meant Bogdan, I often get those names mixed up. All these players play the same position/role and have similar skill sets and flaws. Give any of them Kon's usage on a terrible team and they'll produce +/- 10% of what Kon is.

Getting their most minutes (but noticeably below what Kon is currently seeing and much less usage)
*won't do Hawkins as he's never approached that usage nor Klay who is an outlier

Kon - 18/6/3 40%

Bogdan - 17/3/3 37%
Kispert - 13/3/2 38%
Huerter - 15/3/3 40%
Robinson - 13/4/2 41%
Dick - 14/4/2 35%

these are all role players, #4 or #5, 6th man archetypes. Until I see Kon replicate his current production while on a playoff team I'll remain skeptical.

[yosemiteben]

How is Kon's defense. I haven't watched much of Charlotte's games to know?

Not good. He is smart and his quick thinking helps make up slightly for his lack of lateral quickness, which gives him a floor where he shouldn't be necessarily terrible. However, his lack of lateral mobility has still been a pretty significant problem and he also lacks the length and general athleticism to really affect peoples shots with his contests.

Ive seen a few people try to insist hes actually pretty good on defense but I still don't see it at all.

I'd be curious to see a statistical argument that he's bad on defense.

Here's the statistical argument that he's at least one of the best in his rookie class:

(1) 27.3% on defended 3PA - 11th among all rookies, better than VJ, Flagg, Coward, Bryant
(2) 53.3% on defended FG < 6 FT - 8th among all rookies, better than Kalkbrenner, VJ, Flagg, Coward
(3) 50.4% on defended 2PA - 7th among all rookies, better than Kalkbrenner, VJ, Flagg, Coward

Among all regular rotation players on the Hornets, Kon has the best stats in all 3 of these categories.

[FarBeyondDriven]

How is Kon's defense. I haven't watched much of Charlotte's games to know?

Not good. He is smart and his quick thinking helps make up slightly for his lack of lateral quickness, which gives him a floor where he shouldn't be necessarily terrible. However, his lack of lateral mobility has still been a pretty significant problem and he also lacks the length and general athleticism to really affect peoples shots with his contests.

Ive seen a few people try to insist hes actually pretty good on defense but I still don't see it at all.

I'd be curious to see a statistical argument that he's bad on defense.

Here's the statistical argument that he's at least one of the best in his rookie class:

(1) 27.3% on defended 3PA - 11th among all rookies, better than VJ, Flagg, Coward, Bryant
(2) 53.3% on defended FG < 6 FT - 8th among all rookies, better than Kalkbrenner, VJ, Flagg, Coward
(3) 50.4% on defended 2PA - 7th among all rookies, better than Kalkbrenner, VJ, Flagg, Coward

Among all regular rotation players on the Hornets, Kon has the best stats in all 3 of these categories.

stats don't tell the complete story. If a guy can't defend and it forces help defenders he's a bad defender and he won't accrue negative stats because it wasn't technically his man that ends up scoring on a kickout or hockey assist. If you watch the games, and I have, every one, he's just not capable of staying in front of many guys and it breaks down their whole defense. He's not alone on the Hornets though, it's a terrible defensive team all around.

[yosemiteben]

Not good. He is smart and his quick thinking helps make up slightly for his lack of lateral quickness, which gives him a floor where he shouldn't be necessarily terrible. However, his lack of lateral mobility has still been a pretty significant problem and he also lacks the length and general athleticism to really affect peoples shots with his contests.

Ive seen a few people try to insist hes actually pretty good on defense but I still don't see it at all.

I'd be curious to see a statistical argument that he's bad on defense.

Here's the statistical argument that he's at least one of the best in his rookie class:

(1) 27.3% on defended 3PA - 11th among all rookies, better than VJ, Flagg, Coward, Bryant
(2) 53.3% on defended FG < 6 FT - 8th among all rookies, better than Kalkbrenner, VJ, Flagg, Coward
(3) 50.4% on defended 2PA - 7th among all rookies, better than Kalkbrenner, VJ, Flagg, Coward

Among all regular rotation players on the Hornets, Kon has the best stats in all 3 of these categories.

stats don't tell the complete story. If a guy can't defend and it forces help defenders he's a bad defender and he won't accrue negative stats because it wasn't technically his man that ends up scoring on a kickout or hockey assist. If you watch the games, and I have, every one, he's just not capable of staying in front of many guys and it breaks down their whole defense. He's not alone on the Hornets though, it's a terrible defensive team all around.

I very much disagree that he's generally unable to stay in front of his man and that he's compromising our defense. Yes, there's definitely normal rookie stuff but his ability to close out and contain has been better than I expected and I'm not seeing an inability to stay in front of his guy.

Just as further statistical support, Hornets are -10 points per 100 on defense with Kon on the floor vs off, which is the best on the team among regular rotation players and 92nd percentile in the league. Would not expect that to be the case if he's routinely compromising our defense.

[FarBeyondDriven]

I'd be curious to see a statistical argument that he's bad on defense.

Here's the statistical argument that he's at least one of the best in his rookie class:

(1) 27.3% on defended 3PA - 11th among all rookies, better than VJ, Flagg, Coward, Bryant
(2) 53.3% on defended FG < 6 FT - 8th among all rookies, better than Kalkbrenner, VJ, Flagg, Coward
(3) 50.4% on defended 2PA - 7th among all rookies, better than Kalkbrenner, VJ, Flagg, Coward

Among all regular rotation players on the Hornets, Kon has the best stats in all 3 of these categories.

stats don't tell the complete story. If a guy can't defend and it forces help defenders he's a bad defender and he won't accrue negative stats because it wasn't technically his man that ends up scoring on a kickout or hockey assist. If you watch the games, and I have, every one, he's just not capable of staying in front of many guys and it breaks down their whole defense. He's not alone on the Hornets though, it's a terrible defensive team all around.

I very much disagree that he's generally unable to stay in front of his man and that he's compromising our defense. Yes, there's definitely normal rookie stuff but his ability to close out and contain has been better than I expected and I'm not seeing an inability to stay in front of his guy.

Just as further statistical support, Hornets are -10 points per 100 on defense with Kon on the floor vs off, which is the best on the team among regular rotation players and 92nd percentile in the league. Would not expect that to be the case if he's routinely compromising our defense.

I'm sorry to say it's likely because you don't wish to see it but we'll just have to agree to disagree. Just because he's no worse than the other bad defenders doesn't mean he's good or even passage. It's not just because he's a rookie either as that is usually due to low BBIQ and inconsistent effort which I'm not really seeing. He's simply not athletically capable with very poor lateral quickness and zero hops. He's at a major disadvantage and while he's smart and wants to be in the right place and tries hard there's only so much he can do. I'm not attributing all the Hornets defensive woes to him but he's certainly not helping. The Hornets actually have a worse record than last season (same number of games) despite adding the leading ROY candidate in Kon, the Celtics and Pacers without their best players and 1/3 of the league tanking. That's happening because his impact on winning isn't aligning with his impressive counting stats and backs up why I'm saying his counting stats while on a losing team while playing bad defense is being overhyped.

[yosemiteben]

Did you watch him play defense last night on Brunson? He was the only one on our team that was able to successfully check him.

He's just not a defensive liability.

[EmpireFalls]

Did you watch him play defense last night on Brunson? He was the only one on our team that was able to successfully check him.

He's just not a defensive liability.

No one was able to successfully check Brunson… and that’s not even a negative on Kon’s defense, but he got exactly what he wanted all night.

[yosemiteben]

Did you watch him play defense last night on Brunson? He was the only one on our team that was able to successfully check him.

He's just not a defensive liability.

No one was able to successfully check Brunson… and that’s not even a negative on Kon’s defense, but he got exactly what he wanted all night.

Kon locked him down on multiple ISO possessions, seemed like the only one that did.