Jonas Valanciunas

[S.W.A.N]

He uses his arms to score and defend more so than his legs which is why he shows little jumping ability. If he needs to dunk over people, he'll do it. But again, he prefers to use his reach to score and defend. I think this whole "athleticism" issue is being blown out of proportions.

Is he athletic enough for it to be a strength in the NBA, for it to be something you draft him for? I think the answer to that is a resounding "no". His athleticism is 'doesn't kill him' athleticism... maybe.

So you're not drafting him for his athleticism. You should definitely not be drafting him for his offensive skill. And he has shown to be far from a savant in basketball IQ. That's an 0fer in the Legend of Zelda 3 point triforce of talent. What kind of star prospect isn't a standout in athleticism, skill or IQ?

Um perhaps the fact that we are talking about a 19 year old kid with one of the best rebound rates in europe.Same kid that puts up monster numbers any time he plays against his own age group. The same 7'0 player who hits 80% of his free throws.

Seriously.. No one is talking about him going number 1, the highest rumor has been 3 but more realistically we talking about him going 4-7 in a draft where everyone being draft has question marks.

[erudite23]

He uses his arms to score and defend more so than his legs which is why he shows little jumping ability. If he needs to dunk over people, he'll do it. But again, he prefers to use his reach to score and defend. I think this whole "athleticism" issue is being blown out of proportions.

Is he athletic enough for it to be a strength in the NBA, for it to be something you draft him for? I think the answer to that is a resounding "no". His athleticism is 'doesn't kill him' athleticism... maybe.

So you're not drafting him for his athleticism. You should definitely not be drafting him for his offensive skill. And he has shown to be far from a savant in basketball IQ. That's an 0fer in the Legend of Zelda 3 point triforce of talent. What kind of star prospect isn't a standout in athleticism, skill or IQ?

In the first place, I don't think you can say he isn't a standout in terms of IQ just yet. Maybe, maybe not. Also, I think he has a chance to be a standout in terms of skills. His FT shooting simply cannot be emphasized enough. If this guy is a plus rebounder who alters shots around the hoop and a relentless rebounder and defender, but can also finish extremely well on the PnR and hit the 15-18 ft J with consistency...that's an All Star. It's entirely possible he can be that guy.


If he ALREADY WAS that guy, he wouldn't get out of the top 3 and would be a legit option at #1.

[Darknemo2000]

Where from comes this view of his athleticism? He hardly leaves the ground when he jumps in the videos I've seen. Have I missed some report or new video?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYy6xvSrIHM[/youtube]

He looks pretty ok in his athleticism like in that dunk. He can lift off. Really thats not 'barely lifts of the ground' as you claim.

The main thing is that he doesn't even need that athleticism because his length and quick second jump which helps him rebound a lot of balls over the opponents who have better vertical.

Sheer athleticism can be useful if player knows how to use it but its not a determing factor really.

[kuhane gace]

reading last few posts...what the hell dallas mavericks do in this league

i really don't get people who judge players based on few you tube clips and scouting reports from few journalists

i saw joanas and he is good player. he might not be superstar, but has chane to be very good player

pavel comparison...based on what?....scouting report where says standing tall and talented....one of best jokes i ever heard in basketball

kids this days should requestion their prioritys when following basketball...totaly wrong perception of game

jumping high and haveing long armes is good tool to have in basketball, but isn't only thing what makes player....and reading scouting report and watching you tube clips can be fun and small sources of information, but shouldn't be YOUR OPINION....realy sad

[Ruzious]

Where from comes this view of his athleticism? He hardly leaves the ground when he jumps in the videos I've seen. Have I missed some report or new video?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYy6xvSrIHM[/youtube]

He looks pretty ok in his athleticism like in that dunk. He can lift off. Really thats not 'barely lifts of the ground' as you claim.

The main thing is that he doesn't even need that athleticism because his length and quick second jump which helps him rebound a lot of balls over the opponents who have better vertical.

Sheer athleticism can be useful if player knows how to use it but its not a determing factor really.

I'm impressed. The thing about him is that he's obviously filling out his frame - which will likely end up being about the same as Tim Duncan's. And the recent videos show an increase in self confidence - he's not the skinny deer in the headlights kid he looked like last season - he looks a lot more sure of what he's doing. And given his rep for being a very hard worker, you know his skills are going to get better and better, and he's going to be a force - kid just turned 19 last month.

[sicknastydunker]

I wasn't comparing him to Pavel, just saying height and wingspan are overrated

[Darknemo2000]

I wasn't comparing him to Pavel, just saying height and wingspan are overrated

I do see where you are coming from but athleticism isnt everything or else team like Dallas Mavericks wouldnt be getting to the playoffs and even less winnning the chip.

More so because in Valanciunas case we do see moments like that dunk I placed, that he does lift off the ground when he wants to. Now the question would be - why he usually stays on the ground rather than making jumps like that?

And the answer is that Valanciunas is efficient guy rather than effective. he does what he needs to do without doing more than needed. He has good basketball IQ and understands the game well enough to realize when he needs to jump high and when he can play on the ground.

He wont leap up high in the air and put needless stress on his kness and body if he can do the very same thing (scoring, rebounding) without jumping high. His length gives him enough advantage to get most rebounds relying most on his quick second jump where he 'barely leaves the ground'. You can complain about it but he still gets the job done in most of the cases.

There are situations when he is forced to jump higher than usual like in that dunk before - he had nowhere to go, he started the run and needed either to dunk jumping high and powerfully over opponent or pass the ball up but all teammates were defended and he had the gained the speed needed so he had nowhere to go but to that strong finish and he did.

If he was only groundbound he wouldn't be able to perform such plays even if he had nowhere to go. Its just that usually his length is enough to allow him rebound the ball and score thus he never over do with his jumping.

He does however overdo it on the defensive end. He sometimes tries too hard with his help defense when its not needed, but again I would take guy who does too much effort defensively than a guy who doesn't put enough effort there. Because in the first case it is much easier to make him tone down the play a little, while on the second case it is much tougher to make a player put more effort.

[sicknastydunker]

I wasn't comparing him to Pavel, just saying height and wingspan are overrated

I do see where you are coming from but athleticism isnt everything or else team like Dallas Mavericks wouldnt be getting to the playoffs and even less winnning the chip.

More so because in Valanciunas case we do see moments like that dunk I placed, that he does lift off the ground when he wants to. Now the question would be - why he usually stays on the ground rather than making jumps like that?

And the answer is that Valanciunas is efficient guy rather than effective. he does what he needs to do without doing more than needed. He has good basketball IQ and understands the game well enough to realize when he needs to jump high and when he can play on the ground.

He wont leap up high in the air and put needless stress on his kness and body if he can do the very same thing (scoring, rebounding) without jumping high. His length gives him enough advantage to get most rebounds relying most on his quick second jump where he 'barely leaves the ground'. You can complain about it but he still gets the job done in most of the cases.

There are situations when he is forced to jump higher than usual like in that dunk before - he had nowhere to go, he started the run and needed either to dunk jumping high and powerfully over opponent or pass the ball up but all teammates were defended and he had the gained the speed needed so he had nowhere to go but to that strong finish and he did.

If he was only groundbound he wouldn't be able to perform such plays even if he had nowhere to go. Its just that usually his length is enough to allow him rebound the ball and score thus he never over do with his jumping.

He does however overdo it on the defensive end. He sometimes tries too hard with his help defense when its not needed, but again I would take guy who does too much effort defensively than a guy who doesn't put enough effort there. Because in the first case it is much easier to make him tone down the play a little, while on the second case it is much tougher to make a player put more effort.

fair enough, but that dosen't seem like the player some people make him out to be, I think Valanciunas can be a 10/10/2 player, and that's a good center, but some people are saying he'll average 20/10/3. I think Kanter can average 20/10 though, that's just why I like kanter better. I mean Valanciunas has a ceiling of a good center, but he has a lot of risks too. Like he fouls way too much, he's too thin, he's a horrible post defender right now. I think Kanter is safer and has a higher upside. I wouldn't take all those risks just to get a 10/10/2 player

[Darknemo2000]

fair enough, but that dosen't seem like the player some people make him out to be, I think Valanciunas can be a 10/10/2 player, and that's a good center, but some people are saying he'll average 20/10/3. I think Kanter can average 20/10 though, that's just why I like kanter better. I mean Valanciunas has a ceiling of a good center, but he has a lot of risks too. Like he fouls way too much, he's too thin, he's a horrible post defender right now. I think Kanter is safer and has a higher upside. I wouldn't take all those risks just to get a 10/10/2 player

I would say he could be 12-14pts. He always defended better than Kanter in youth tournaments too (Kanter sometimes slacks on D end to work on his O).

And Valanciunas frame is getting better. You can compare it with the start of the season and now. He really is filling it up. Most of the scouts seem to think that Valanciunas have higher ceiling than Kanter as well, but this one is based on their intuition than anything else.

Kanter is more NBA ready but I think Valanciunas will eventually catch up and become better player than Enes (particularly defensive end). But its my opinion as those future guesses are always shooting in the dark.

You are right that Kanter is a safer pick. Valanciunas is about the future where he may become better than Kanter as many specialists believe him yo have higher ceiling but the future is a tricky thing and not really safe.

[erudite23]

I think you're underselling JV's scoring ability. If he pans out, he'll average around 15-17ppg in his prime. But I still agree that Kanter is safer and has a higher upside, thus making him the better prospect. But Jonas is no slouch, either.

[sicknastydunker]

I think you're underselling JV's scoring ability. If he pans out, he'll average around 15-17ppg in his prime. But I still agree that Kanter is safer and has a higher upside, thus making him the better prospect. But Jonas is no slouch, either.

I don't think he'll average 15-17 points, he just dosen't have great post moves, hes a good finisher, so I think his ceiling is 10/10/2 with good efficiency

[Darknemo2000]

I think you're underselling JV's scoring ability. If he pans out, he'll average around 15-17ppg in his prime. But I still agree that Kanter is safer and has a higher upside, thus making him the better prospect. But Jonas is no slouch, either.

I don't think he'll average 15-17 points, he just dosen't have great post moves, hes a good finisher, so I think his ceiling is 10/10/2 with good efficiency

You can always develop post moves if you work hard. Nowitzki did not came with deadly shot here too. You can develop a lot with hard work.

Also in youth tournaments Valanciunas does show post moves (though not many) the reason he doenst in Euroleague is because he never or almost never gets the ball. Remember - Jonas is not a scoring option for rytas team (coach decision).

They play off guards and Valanciunas is either to set a pick (and maybe get some pnr points) or get an off rebound and score the points this way.

[rennytwentyone]

Jonas needs to hit up that old guy that has tutored Dirk since he was a teenager.

[TJ Quik]

Any update on his measurements?

[clockwork]

he measured at 7 feet, don't know the rest.

[sicknastydunker]

7 foot 7'4 wingspan, not sure about standing reach but Jeff Foote who had a 7'4 wingspan and was 7 ft had a 9'3.5 standing reach. Weird because that probably means Biyombo has a bigger standing reach than Valanciunas

[I_Like_Dirt]

I think 14 ppg is probably close to his absolute maximum potential on offense. He just isn't very good offensively and he's a long ways away from being a player that plays 40 mpg who goes beyond 14 ppg just on sheer volume of minutes, I'm not sure he'll ever be that guy for a few different reasons. There were only 7 players in the NBA who might possibly qualify as a center depending on your definition that averaged 15 ppg or more last season, and most of that list consisted of score-only players who aren't really centers in that they don't do center things defensively like Andrea Bargnani, Brook Lopez, Al Jefferson, Andre Blatche and David Lee. There is no way Valanciunas matches the offensive production of players like that. His absolute upside offensively is a lot closer to Nene, who has never averaged 15 ppg in his career, and even Nene does some things offensively that I'm not sure Valanciunas will ever be able to do.

Dirk is such a ridiculous comparison for any player that it defies meaning. Dirk is so ridiculously unique that, yeah, it's possible somebody becomes like him, but it's so ridiculously unlikely and impossible to figure out who will be him and who will be Andrea Bargnani that things get silly. Valanciunas will never be Dirk. You might as well compare Biyombo to Dwight Howard as compare Valanciunas to Dirk.

[mcfly1204]

I think Valanciunas's ceiling is a rich man's Tyson Chandler. The one stat that stands out to me is his free throw percentages. To me, that is a good sign that he can develop at least a decent mid range jumper. Even then, if you have a young, athletic center with very good length, don't you want him to stick around the basket anyway?

[sicknastydunker]

I think Valanciunas's ceiling is a rich man's Tyson Chandler. The one stat that stands out to me is his free throw percentages. To me, that is a good sign that he can develop at least a decent mid range jumper. Even then, if you have a young, athletic center with very good length, don't you want him to stick around the basket anyway?

I really don't get this comparison, Chandler's greatest strength is his athleticism, without his athleticism he would be nothing, Valanciunas is not a great athlete. I don't get how you could call him a rich man's Tyson because Tyson wouldn't be good without his athleticism. I think the best comparison for him is Vlade Divac without the passing

[sicknastydunker]

I think 14 ppg is probably close to his absolute maximum potential on offense. He just isn't very good offensively and he's a long ways away from being a player that plays 40 mpg who goes beyond 14 ppg just on sheer volume of minutes, I'm not sure he'll ever be that guy for a few different reasons. There were only 7 players in the NBA who might possibly qualify as a center depending on your definition that averaged 15 ppg or more last season, and most of that list consisted of score-only players who aren't really centers in that they don't do center things defensively like Andrea Bargnani, Brook Lopez, Al Jefferson, Andre Blatche and David Lee. There is no way Valanciunas matches the offensive production of players like that. His absolute upside offensively is a lot closer to Nene, who has never averaged 15 ppg in his career, and even Nene does some things offensively that I'm not sure Valanciunas will ever be able to do.

Dirk is such a ridiculous comparison for any player that it defies meaning. Dirk is so ridiculously unique that, yeah, it's possible somebody becomes like him, but it's so ridiculously unlikely and impossible to figure out who will be him and who will be Andrea Bargnani that things get silly. Valanciunas will never be Dirk. You might as well compare Biyombo to Dwight Howard as compare Valanciunas to Dirk.

DX did compare Biyombo to D12