Markelle Fultz

Post #461 » by **Marcus** » Tue Mar 7, 2017 3:49 am

The-Power wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:There is a drop off in potential after those 4-5 guys. Boston either trades the pick for an established star or if they trade down it won't be beyond 4-5.

Who's the fourth guy? DSJ? If so I disagree. Right now I see a top 3 and nobody else really separated himself for the fourth or fifth spot. Of course you can disagree but it's not like there's a consensus as you imply.

What is it you don't like about DSJ and who would you put ahead of him?

The-Power · Post #462 » by **The-Power** » Tue Mar 7, 2017 12:50 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
The-Power wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:There is a drop off in potential after those 4-5 guys. Boston either trades the pick for an established star or if they trade down it won't be beyond 4-5.

Who's the fourth guy? DSJ? If so I disagree. Right now I see a top 3 and nobody else really separated himself for the fourth or fifth spot. Of course you can disagree but it's not like there's a consensus as you imply.

Ya DSJ is my forth guy. I still think his game is built exactly for today's NBA. Great athlete, great running the PnR and can shoot.

Yeah, I'm lower on him than you are but he has every chance to be a great player down the road. But he's not a consensus 4th pick - nor is Tatum 5th - on many mocks. So it's more than debatable whether there is a drop-off after the 4th-5th pick when it's not even clear which players we're talking about. Of course everybody can express his or her subjective opinion on the matter.

E-Balla · Post #463 » by **E-Balla** » Tue Mar 7, 2017 12:58 pm

The-Power wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
The-Power wrote:Who's the fourth guy? DSJ? If so I disagree. Right now I see a top 3 and nobody else really separated himself for the fourth or fifth spot. Of course you can disagree but it's not like there's a consensus as you imply.

Ya DSJ is my forth guy. I still think his game is built exactly for today's NBA. Great athlete, great running the PnR and can shoot.

Yeah, I'm lower on him than you are but he has every chance to be a great player down the road. But he's not a consensus 4th pick - nor is Tatum 5th - on many mocks. So it's more than debatable whether there is a drop-off after the 4th-5th pick when it's not even clear which players we're talking about. Of course everybody can express his or her subjective opinion on the matter.

But ignoring the consensus why is he not in that top class to you? I mean Wiggins was consensus top 3 and I didn't have him top 5. Bennett was consensus lotto level and I didn't have him in the 1st round. Personally I barely take consensus opinion into account because it can be wildly off.

The-Power · Post #464 » by **The-Power** » Tue Mar 7, 2017 1:01 pm

Marcus wrote:
The-Power wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:There is a drop off in potential after those 4-5 guys. Boston either trades the pick for an established star or if they trade down it won't be beyond 4-5.

Who's the fourth guy? DSJ? If so I disagree. Right now I see a top 3 and nobody else really separated himself for the fourth or fifth spot. Of course you can disagree but it's not like there's a consensus as you imply.

What is it you don't like about DSJ and who would you put ahead of him?

Well, I do like him but not so much that I consider him an obvious choice for the 4th pick. DSJ has some great tools but what gives me pause is his out-of-control play at times and I'm not sure I would trust him to run my entire offense efficiently at the next level. In order to do that he'd need to be able to put a lot of pressure on defenses á la Westbrook and I don't see the ability to do it constantly yet. So the next question is: can he contribute off the ball? And while I don't see it as a huge issue - unlike for, say, Fox - I don't really consider him a valuable player off the ball. I'd love him on a team with a dominant big man, though.

As to which player I'd put ahead of him, I can't give you a definite answer at this point. Isaac and Tatum are two obvious choices although DSJ himself has a good argument over both as well. Further I think arguments for Ntilikina, Monk and Markkanen can be made depending on what you need and how confident you are in developing them. I wouldn't even be surprised to see some people picking Bridges over him although that should definitely be the exception. Hard to see Fox ahead of him barring a truly outstanding NCCA tournament given that they share some important traits and DSJ simply looked better than him throughout the year.

The-Power · Post #465 » by **The-Power** » Tue Mar 7, 2017 1:07 pm

E-Balla wrote:
The-Power wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Ya DSJ is my forth guy. I still think his game is built exactly for today's NBA. Great athlete, great running the PnR and can shoot.

Yeah, I'm lower on him than you are but he has every chance to be a great player down the road. But he's not a consensus 4th pick - nor is Tatum 5th - on many mocks. So it's more than debatable whether there is a drop-off after the 4th-5th pick when it's not even clear which players we're talking about. Of course everybody can express his or her subjective opinion on the matter.

But ignoring the consensus why is he not in that top class to you? I mean Wiggins was consensus top 3 and I didn't have him top 5. Bennett was consensus lotto level and I didn't have him in the 1st round. Personally I barely take consensus opinion into account because it can be wildly off.

This isn't about the consensus as much as about phrasing. 'They won't trade beyond 4-5' implies as if every team in the NBA knew that this is a top 4-5 draft when it really isn't. I was simply trying to point that out - nothing wrong with having DSJ 4th and Tatum 5th on your personal board. I tried to answer your initial question in the post above.

reanimator · Post #466 » by **reanimator** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:21 am

Read on Twitter

The idea that he isn't in the same tier of passer as Ball and DSJ was always silly

Post #467 » by **Marcus** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:29 am

Don't know about you guys but I was super surprised to see Fultz declare. Thought he would have stuck around to help carry the team next year.

Post #468 » by **Duke4life831** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:06 am

Marcus wrote:Don't know about you guys but I was super surprised to see Fultz declare. Thought he would have stuck around to help carry the team next year.

Yup first DSJ declaring and now Fultz, didn't see either one coming haha.

But I do have to say, it would've been really cool to see what a team with Fultz and Michael Porter could've done out West.

Post #469 » by **Marcus** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:13 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
Marcus wrote:Don't know about you guys but I was super surprised to see Fultz declare. Thought he would have stuck around to help carry the team next year.

Yup first DSJ declaring and now Fultz, didn't see either one coming haha.

But I do have to say, it would've been really cool to see what a team with Fultz and Michael Porter could've done out West.

I'm assuming pretty scary combo.

JMAC3 · Post #470 » by **JMAC3** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:34 pm

Closest thing to Kobe I have seen, he is a scoring guard not a point guard.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

cksdayoff · Post #471 » by **cksdayoff** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:04 pm

reanimator wrote:

Read on Twitter

The idea that he isn't in the same tier of passer as Ball and DSJ was always silly

I've seen about 8 or 9 Huskies games this year and the narrative that Fultz isn't a good facillitator is false. He is the only capable ball handler on the team. Crisp is the secondary ball handler, and he wasn't very good at it. Fultz gave his teammates open looks, especially with his dribble drive penetration, he kicks out to open teammates, but his teammates have trouble knocking down open shots, doesn't matter if its from the elbow or from the 3 point line.

madmaxmedia · Post #472 » by **madmaxmedia** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:28 pm

Marcus wrote:Don't know about you guys but I was super surprised to see Fultz declare. Thought he would have stuck around to help carry the team next year.

With such a high usage rate, you would have to be worried about injury. He's also not going to improve his draft stock any, #1 vs. #2 is very close contract-wise in any case (if he actually doesn't go #1, which I think he will.) So really he can only hurt himself personally by staying.

When you're ready, you're ready.

Post #473 » by **Marcus** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:44 pm

madmaxmedia wrote:
Marcus wrote:Don't know about you guys but I was super surprised to see Fultz declare. Thought he would have stuck around to help carry the team next year.

With such a high usage rate, you would have to be worried about injury. He's also not going to improve his draft stock any, #1 vs. #2 is very close contract-wise in any case (if he actually doesn't go #1, which I think he will.) So really he can only hurt himself personally by staying.

When you're ready, you're ready.

lol. I was completely joking. Would have made no sense for him to come back to school. He's been the consensus number 1 pick since the FIBA tourney.

madmaxmedia · Post #474 » by **madmaxmedia** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:18 pm

LOL! I figured maybe you had read something where he previously stated wanting to stay in college more than 1 year.

Next, you can indicate your surprise that LeBron is considered a shoe-in for the Hall of Fame, and I'll explain why it's actually not that surprising, if you really think about it.

Post #475 » by **Marcus** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:50 pm

madmaxmedia wrote:LOL! I figured maybe you had read something where he previously stated wanting to stay in college more than 1 year.

Next, you can indicate your surprise that LeBron is considered a shoe-in for the Hall of Fame, and I'll explain why it's actually not that surprising, if you really think about it.

lol. well I have been digging into his career arc thus far and it might not be as clear cut as people think. but if that Jordan guy got in I guess anybody has a shot.

Post #476 » by **bwgood77** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:21 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
Marcus wrote:Don't know about you guys but I was super surprised to see Fultz declare. Thought he would have stuck around to help carry the team next year.

Yup first DSJ declaring and now Fultz, didn't see either one coming haha.

But I do have to say, it would've been really cool to see what a team with Fultz and Michael Porter could've done out West.

Feel free to give your guy's thoughts on Fultz here... viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1539220

aim2please · Post #477 » by **aim2please** » Mon May 1, 2017 8:01 pm

I just spent 10 minutes searching for this thread. :/ Surprised that, for over a month, there are no comments in the thread that's dedicated to the consensus #1 pick.

I don't follow college hoop, but from all I've read/watched it really seems he's a can't miss guy. Other than one poster, who kind of derailed the topic IMO, I couldn't find a reasonable take of why he might not be worthy of a #1 pick.

I would be really interested to hear such arguments, what are some of the concerns you have about him? E.g., I can't find one reason why would someone take Ball over him. You can even play devil's advocate if you will.

Derento · Post #478 » by **Derento** » Mon May 1, 2017 9:16 pm

aim2please wrote:I just spent 10 minutes searching for this thread. :/ Surprised that, for over a month, there are no comments in the thread that's dedicated to the consensus #1 pick.

I don't follow college hoop, but from all I've read/watched it really seems he's a can't miss guy. Other than one poster, who kind of derailed the topic IMO, I couldn't find a reasonable take of why he might not be worthy of a #1 pick.

I would be really interested to hear such arguments, what are some of the concerns you have about him? E.g., I can't find one reason why would someone take Ball over him. You can even play devil's advocate if you will.

The only things I make me pause is his ft percentage and that he doesn't get to the rim or draw as many fouls as other elite guard prospects like Harden,Kyrie,Wade,Paul. He is huge,has large hands and jumps high but doesn't have the elite burst that the guy I mentioned before. Only guards/wings I think of that made a dramatic increase in their ability to draw fouls/get to rim from college to pros is Westbrook,Durant,Deron williams,Wade freshman to sophomore year.

Derento · Post #479 » by **Derento** » Mon May 1, 2017 9:30 pm

So to me Fultz would be can't miss if had a Ftr of at least 0.44 and got to the rim more
and had at least ft percentage of 75%. He's still very talented and young so he has some upside in improving these aspects but if was around these bench marks he would be a Towns,Durant level prospect imo.

aim2please · Post #480 » by **aim2please** » Mon May 1, 2017 9:34 pm

Derento wrote:So to me Fultz would be can't miss if had a Ftr of at least 0.44 and got to the rim more
and had at least ft percentage of 75%. He's still very talented and young so he has some upside in improving these aspects but if was around these bench marks he would be a Towns,Durant level prospect imo.

That's a legitimate concern. Getting to the line is a skill, a very important one if you wanna be an efficient scorer.