Luka Doncic

[reanimator]

Doncic would probably go 6-10, if he were correctly placed in the 2017 class.

[Derento]

For those more knowledgeable than me about this topic. Does Doncic regularly defend point guards?
Because I watched some games and Doncic played solid defense on the opposing pg.

[CalL]

where would you guys put Doncic in 17 class? top 10?

I think this question has been asked (and answered) at least one time before in this or the previous thread on him ...
Top 10? Yes
Top 5? Maybe
Ahead of Markannen and Ntilikina? Yes
First? No (Fultz)
I think anything between 2nd and maybe 8th wouldn't be a shock. Personally i would pick him somewhere from 4th to 6th.
I would probably even pick him higher in this year's draft than in next year's draft. In my opinion Fultz is the only "safe" all-star in this class (Giles, if fit, would have been the 2nd one), next year you have at least Porter, Bamba, Ayton as "safe" all-star prospects + guys like Diallo, Carter, Duval, Sexton or Anigbogu who all could be considered "safe" all-star prospects at the same time next year.

[Disposable Hero]

where would you guys put Doncic in 17 class? top 10?

tough to say. anywhere from 1-10. We don't know how they'll measure or perform in workouts. Doncic has been polarizing and those things could help settle some of those issues.

[reanimator]

Fultz, JJ, DSJ, Tatum are all better prospects...that isnt up for debate imo. I prefer Ball due to size/tools at his position though he and Doncic are somewhat similar. Then it comes down to that next tier, of which I prefer Isaac and Ntilikina longterm with arguments for Fox, Bridges and Monk being legitimate.

[Mirotic12]

i dont knw why you say his body isnt developed yet? he isnt skinny, he isnt fat, he looks lika a mean. fernandez looks skinny compared to him. he is the same build as nochioni, and we all know he was a bull. so to say his body has to catch up is not true. i say his body is the second reason he can play with men, second to his court vision, smarts.

No one said he doesn't have a big body. He has great size for a SF for example - I am sure he's like 220-225 pounds or something like that already. The issue is his strength. If you watch him play in EuroLeague, you can clearly see the other shooting guards / small forwards are all stronger than he is, which is normal, considering he's 18. That's one of the main reasons his coach wants him matched with a lot of point guards, along with that he can shoot and see over them, which makes it a lot easier to play that way.

You are wrong on most things you "noticed". Maybe you should watch the actual games, not just the highlights. He is v very good shooter, one of the best rebounders in Euroleague for his position (top 3), above average defensively, he is tough, not afraid to take over in clutch and he delivers as well. He is not an elite athlete but is above average and of course physically he is not strong enough which is understandable as he just turned 18.

Basically you are wrong on 9 out of 10. Watch the game today against Fener and see what happens)))

He's not an above average athlete for EuroLeague. He's average athletically for EuroLeague. And being 18, he's at the quickest and fastest he will ever be in his career right now. He will only get slower moving forward. So no, I don't think we can say he's an above average athlete. He's probably just slightly more athletic than someone like Kostas Papanikolaou, but then certainly less athletic than someone like Cedi Osman......basically, he's fairly average for EuroLeague standards.

He is definitely not a great athlete. He can leap a bit, but what worries me a bit is his lack of quick first step. I Don't know how hes gonna beat his man on perimeter. He is still a very interesting case, because he plays PG at a very high level, yet he is around 6'9 and might still be growing.
I would say he is one of those players who just looks better when you watch actual game. His highlights actually bore me at times, but when you watch full game, you see how well he controls the game. That is evident in his +/-. Team can live and die by Llull, very sporadic leader, but with Doncic, team always look like they are doing something good.

We need to stop exaggerating his height here. I just watched a couple Real games...he is simply no taller than Nocioni at all, and NBA listed Nocioni at 6-7. He is barely taller than Jonas Maciulis, maybe like an inch or so, and Maciulis is listed at 6-6 or 6-7, depending on the source. There is no way Doncic is 6-9, at least not now anyway. As for the he might still be growing aspect - yes, he might be. It doesn't mean he should be said to be taller now than he actually currently is.

[UcanUwill]

We need to stop exaggerating his height here. I just watched a couple Real games...he is simply no taller than Nocioni at all, and NBA listed Nocioni at 6-7. He is barely taller than Jonas Maciulis, maybe like an inch or so, and Maciulis is listed at 6-6 or 6-7, depending on the source. There is no way Doncic is 6-9, at least not now anyway. As for the he might still be growing aspect - yes, he might be. It doesn't mean he should be said to be taller now than he actually currently is.

He is taller than Nocioni for sure I think. Anyway, he tried to run one play where he gets in the post against Bobby Dixon couple of times, but nothing came out of it really. He needs to be more aggressive and post up more, I mean Dixon was like 5'9, a near foot shorter. Need to work on his post game.

[FreeMario]

Bust

[FreeMario]

Too slowm not good shooter. Bad athlete

[BoardCrusher]

Too slowm not good shooter. Bad athlete

You should work on your English and grammar, before commenting things you have no knowledge about.

[UcanUwill]

Bust

I will take anything you say with a grain of salt, you still believe Mario Hezonja is just as good as Devin Booker right?

[Ettorefm]

Are you guys his relatives? It's getting pretty sad

Incapable of admitting any flaws and always answer with "you dont know what you're talking about"

Stop being so defensive.

Fine, he's 6'9, abovr average athletically, best prospect in years, best rebounder..what else?

[UcanUwill]

Are you guys his relatives? It's getting pretty sad

Incapable of admitting any flaws and always answer with "you dont know what you're talking about"

Stop being so defensive.

Fine, he's 6'9, abovr average athletically, best prospect in years, best rebounder..what else?

Sorry about that, its just that I cant take that guy very seriously. Yeah Doncic is not perfect, there are obvious red flags, I think its just his age why people go crazy over him. If he was 20, I don't think people would care that much and would see his flaws more clearly, Got to admit, I suffer from very same problem, I just get excited seeing 17/18 year old dominate the Euroleague, altho I am not sure there is a huge difference between being 18 and being 20, especially when your body is as matured as Doncic's.

[Ettorefm]

Are you guys his relatives? It's getting pretty sad

Incapable of admitting any flaws and always answer with "you dont know what you're talking about"

Stop being so defensive.

Fine, he's 6'9, abovr average athletically, best prospect in years, best rebounder..what else?

Sorry about that, its just that I cant take that guy very seriously. Yeah Doncic is not perfect, there are obvious red flags, I think its just his age why people go crazy over him. If he was 20, I don't think people would care that much and would see his flaws more clearly, Got to admit, I suffer from very same problem, I just get excited seeing 17/18 year old dominate the Euroleague, altho I am not sure there is a huge difference between being 18 and being 20, especially when your body is as matured as Doncic's.

As crazy as it sounds, I completely agree with you. And that's both a blessing and a curse.

The upside is that it's exciting and he really IS NBA ready with his body, BBIQ and ability to take contact and not shy away.

The downside is that...he's ready. He's not going to be better athletically than he is now. There has never (or practically never) been a dude who got more explosive and got a quicker first step with more mileage/training. Those are innate attributes.

Add the fact that the best defensive position in hte league right now is SF, and you have a huge problem with Doncic. The guys he's going to match up with are way faster than him and can easily stop him from scoring. Imagine prime Doncic against guys like Kawhi, George, Lebron, Butler, Iguodala, Green, Tucker, Barnes, Crowder, Giannis, Covington, Durant, MKG...I'd bet to say that Doncic might go scoreless against those guys when engaged.

Sure, guys like Wall have gotten stronger and developed to be even more explosive, but you don't see guys like Kyle Anderson or Raymond Felton suddenly developing the ability to blow by guys just on better physical training and pro coaches.

I thin khe'll have a long career in the NBA. At the same time, I think his ceiling is limited by his below average athleticism by NBA standards.

Let me extend an olive branch here. He's definetely average or slightly above average for kids his size or even Euroleague median players. The problem is, the NBA is twice as fast and defenders are 3x as long. If he can't get past mediocre wings in Euroleague, I sure don't buy his ability to drive or be a triple threat as the pick'n'rol lman.

Remember D'Angelo Russell during his Summer league games? People were concerned that he wouldn't be able to create in the NBA because every time he went through a screen, he couldn't blow by his defender, or the defending guard prevented him from using the screen. He still has problems with that, but he's smart enough to be able to handle those situations.

Doncic is slow as hell. His max speed from all the videos I've seen is actually pretty imrpessive. It's definetely NOT below average for the NBA. But max speed is not as useful as agility or quick first step. I'm confident he can playmake in transition and beat guys while already in motion, but from a standing position, I think he'll have tons of problems.

As I said before, yo udon't need more than 2 videos to see this guy is brilliant and has outstanding vision and passing skills. He can hold his own on skill and intelligence alone against any other prospect 17-20 easily, even guys declaring this year. I just don't see him being able to be anything more than the 5th best starter in a team or the best role player in a good team (Like Livingston in his best year, which was probably the NBA championship one)

You know who he reminds me of? Joe Ingles. I love Joe Ingles, btw.

I just hate overhyping and glossing over obvious red flags. To say that Doncic, THIS doncic, would be #2 in the 2017 is asenine for me. Since we spoke the first time, I watched two entire games of his because I thought you were right and I was being unfair. I also watched tons of other highlights not to be embarassed in discussions like this by not having knowledge on how he plays, and I'm not impressed.

As in mocks, sure, he might go top 3 because he'd be the youngest guy in the draft and just on sheer potential alone a team would roll the dice on him, but there are many guys I'd pick over him. Just to give an example of a guy who'll play the same position on defense (SF/PF), I believe Jonathan Isaac is way better than Doncic.

[UcanUwill]

Are you guys his relatives? It's getting pretty sad

Incapable of admitting any flaws and always answer with "you dont know what you're talking about"

Stop being so defensive.

Fine, he's 6'9, abovr average athletically, best prospect in years, best rebounder..what else?

Sorry about that, its just that I cant take that guy very seriously. Yeah Doncic is not perfect, there are obvious red flags, I think its just his age why people go crazy over him. If he was 20, I don't think people would care that much and would see his flaws more clearly, Got to admit, I suffer from very same problem, I just get excited seeing 17/18 year old dominate the Euroleague, altho I am not sure there is a huge difference between being 18 and being 20, especially when your body is as matured as Doncic's.

As crazy as it sounds, I completely agree with you. And that's both a blessing and a curse.

The upside is that it's exciting and he really IS NBA ready with his body, BBIQ and ability to take contact and not shy away.

The downside is that...he's ready. He's not going to be better athletically than he is now. There has never (or practically never) been a dude who got more explosive and got a quicker first step with more mileage/training. Those are innate attributes.

I thin khe'll have a long career in the NBA. At the same time, I think his ceiling is limited by his below average athleticism by NBA standards.

Let me extend an olive branch here. He's definetely average or slightly above average for kids his size or even Euroleague median players. The problem is, the NBA is twice as fast and defenders are 3x as long. If he can't get past mediocre wings in Euroleague, I sure don't buy his ability to drive or be a triple threat as the pick'n'rol lman.

Remember D'Angelo Russell during his Summer league games? People were concerned that he wouldn't be able to create in the NBA because every time he went through a screen, he couldn't blow by his defender, or the defending guard prevented him from using the screen. He still has problems with that, but he's smart enough to be able to handle those situations.

Doncic is slow as hell. His max speed from all the videos I've seen is actually pretty imrpessive. It's definetely NOT below average for the NBA. But max speed is not as useful as agility or quick first step. I'm confident he can playmake in transition and beat guys while already in motion, but from a standing position, I think he'll have tons of problems.

As I said before, yo udon't need more than 2 videos to see this guy is brilliant and has outstanding vision and passing skills. He can hold his own on skill and intelligence alone against any other prospect 17-20 easily, even guys declaring this year. I just don't see him being able to be anything more than the 5th best starter in a team or the best role player in a good team (Like Livingston in his best year, which was probably the NBA championship one)

You know who he reminds me of? Joe Ingles.

His first step is one of his biggest problems. He can't blow pass by anyone, just in love with that step back 3. At least his handle is getting better and better, he can dribble around active hands and operate inside the 3 point line even when surrounded by opponents.

[Ettorefm]

Sorry about that, its just that I cant take that guy very seriously. Yeah Doncic is not perfect, there are obvious red flags, I think its just his age why people go crazy over him. If he was 20, I don't think people would care that much and would see his flaws more clearly, Got to admit, I suffer from very same problem, I just get excited seeing 17/18 year old dominate the Euroleague, altho I am not sure there is a huge difference between being 18 and being 20, especially when your body is as matured as Doncic's.

As crazy as it sounds, I completely agree with you. And that's both a blessing and a curse.

The upside is that it's exciting and he really IS NBA ready with his body, BBIQ and ability to take contact and not shy away.

The downside is that...he's ready. He's not going to be better athletically than he is now. There has never (or practically never) been a dude who got more explosive and got a quicker first step with more mileage/training. Those are innate attributes.

I thin khe'll have a long career in the NBA. At the same time, I think his ceiling is limited by his below average athleticism by NBA standards.

Let me extend an olive branch here. He's definetely average or slightly above average for kids his size or even Euroleague median players. The problem is, the NBA is twice as fast and defenders are 3x as long. If he can't get past mediocre wings in Euroleague, I sure don't buy his ability to drive or be a triple threat as the pick'n'rol lman.

Remember D'Angelo Russell during his Summer league games? People were concerned that he wouldn't be able to create in the NBA because every time he went through a screen, he couldn't blow by his defender, or the defending guard prevented him from using the screen. He still has problems with that, but he's smart enough to be able to handle those situations.

Doncic is slow as hell. His max speed from all the videos I've seen is actually pretty imrpessive. It's definetely NOT below average for the NBA. But max speed is not as useful as agility or quick first step. I'm confident he can playmake in transition and beat guys while already in motion, but from a standing position, I think he'll have tons of problems.

As I said before, yo udon't need more than 2 videos to see this guy is brilliant and has outstanding vision and passing skills. He can hold his own on skill and intelligence alone against any other prospect 17-20 easily, even guys declaring this year. I just don't see him being able to be anything more than the 5th best starter in a team or the best role player in a good team (Like Livingston in his best year, which was probably the NBA championship one)

You know who he reminds me of? Joe Ingles.

His first step is one of his biggest problems. He can't blow pass by anyone, just in love with that step back 3. At least his handle is getting better and better, he can dribble around active hands and operate inside the 3 point line even when surrounded by opponents.

Loved his post game, btw. Definetely potential there, specially the passing out of the post.

PS: Read my post again, I edited the ending and added some comments

\/

You know who he reminds me of? Joe Ingles. I love Joe Ingles, btw.

I just hate overhyping and glossing over obvious red flags. To say that Doncic, THIS doncic, would be #2 in the 2017 is asenine for me. Since we spoke the first time, I watched two entire games of his because I thought you were right and I was being unfair. I also watched tons of other highlights not to be embarassed in discussions like this by not having knowledge on how he plays, and I'm not impressed.

As in mocks, sure, he might go top 3 because he'd be the youngest guy in the draft and just on sheer potential alone a team would roll the dice on him, but there are many guys I'd pick over him. Just to give an example of a guy who'll play the same position on defense (SF/PF), I believe Jonathan Isaac is way better than Doncic.

[Kolkmania]

The downside is that...he's ready. He's not going to be better athletically than he is now. There has never (or practically never) been a dude who got more explosive and got a quicker first step with more mileage/training. Those are innate attributes.

You know who he reminds me of? Joe Ingles. I love Joe Ingles, btw.

Watch some games of Jabari Parker at Duke and compare those with the plays he made this season, that's a huge difference. Some people have more fast twitch muscles than the other, but stating that improving your first step and explosiveness is impossible, is simply not true. Especially with guys like Doncic whose body is still transforming.

I compared him with Joe Ingles as well earlier in this thread, it's kind of a floor comparison though.

[Derento]

At this point in Doncic season He's not going to show us anything new. He already establishes himself as a top prospect. Now its a waiting game to see if he improves or stagnates in the next two years. He already improve from last year.There's usually a large improvement from 18 to 19 and 19 to 20. We he take the step from role player to star. Will be interesting to see.

[Mirotic12]

Sorry about that, its just that I cant take that guy very seriously. Yeah Doncic is not perfect, there are obvious red flags, I think its just his age why people go crazy over him. If he was 20, I don't think people would care that much and would see his flaws more clearly, Got to admit, I suffer from very same problem, I just get excited seeing 17/18 year old dominate the Euroleague, altho I am not sure there is a huge difference between being 18 and being 20, especially when your body is as matured as Doncic's.

Can we please stop with the 100% totally incorrect use of the word dominate, as it relates to basketball players in Europe?

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/dominate?s=t

dominate
[dom-uh-neyt]

verb (used with object), dominated, dominating.
1.
to rule over; govern; control.
2.
to tower above; overlook; overshadow:
A tall pine dominated the landscape.
3.
to predominate, permeate, or characterize.
4.
Mathematics. (of a series, vector, etc.) to have terms or components greater in absolute value than the corresponding terms or components of a given series, vector, etc.
5.
Linguistics. (of a node in a tree diagram) to be connected with (a subordinate node) either directly by a single downward branch or indirectly by a sequence of downward branches.
verb (used without object), dominated, dominating.
6.
to rule; exercise control; predominate.
7.
to occupy a commanding or elevated position.


A guy averaging 8 points, 4 rebounds, and 4 assists a game is clearly in no way in hell dominating anything or anyone. In fact, this word gets thrown around to ludicrous levels in reference to EuroLeague all the time. "So and so dominated EuroLeague" - and it's never ever true any time it is stated.

There hasn't been a dominant player in EuroLeague since the days of Drazen Petrovic in the mid 80s, and back then no one played any defense in EuroLeague, and the stats were also enormously inflated - the overall level of the players and teams throughout the league was far below what it is now. Actually, there hasn't been a player even close to "domination" in the EuroLeague in the last 20 years or so.

It's almost become a joke how the word dominate is used in reference to EuroLeague players, but we can't allow someone at Doncic's current level to be given this "dominant" title, when he's a role player in his team and scores 8 points a game. At some point the hyperbole goes too overboard.

As crazy as it sounds, I completely agree with you. And that's both a blessing and a curse.

The upside is that it's exciting and he really IS NBA ready with his body, BBIQ and ability to take contact and not shy away.

The downside is that...he's ready. He's not going to be better athletically than he is now. There has never (or practically never) been a dude who got more explosive and got a quicker first step with more mileage/training. Those are innate attributes.

Add the fact that the best defensive position in hte league right now is SF, and you have a huge problem with Doncic. The guys he's going to match up with are way faster than him and can easily stop him from scoring. Imagine prime Doncic against guys like Kawhi, George, Lebron, Butler, Iguodala, Green, Tucker, Barnes, Crowder, Giannis, Covington, Durant, MKG...I'd bet to say that Doncic might go scoreless against those guys when engaged.

Sure, guys like Wall have gotten stronger and developed to be even more explosive, but you don't see guys like Kyle Anderson or Raymond Felton suddenly developing the ability to blow by guys just on better physical training and pro coaches.

I thin khe'll have a long career in the NBA. At the same time, I think his ceiling is limited by his below average athleticism by NBA standards.

Let me extend an olive branch here. He's definetely average or slightly above average for kids his size or even Euroleague median players. The problem is, the NBA is twice as fast and defenders are 3x as long. If he can't get past mediocre wings in Euroleague, I sure don't buy his ability to drive or be a triple threat as the pick'n'rol lman.

Remember D'Angelo Russell during his Summer league games? People were concerned that he wouldn't be able to create in the NBA because every time he went through a screen, he couldn't blow by his defender, or the defending guard prevented him from using the screen. He still has problems with that, but he's smart enough to be able to handle those situations.

Doncic is slow as hell. His max speed from all the videos I've seen is actually pretty imrpessive. It's definetely NOT below average for the NBA. But max speed is not as useful as agility or quick first step. I'm confident he can playmake in transition and beat guys while already in motion, but from a standing position, I think he'll have tons of problems.

As I said before, yo udon't need more than 2 videos to see this guy is brilliant and has outstanding vision and passing skills. He can hold his own on skill and intelligence alone against any other prospect 17-20 easily, even guys declaring this year. I just don't see him being able to be anything more than the 5th best starter in a team or the best role player in a good team (Like Livingston in his best year, which was probably the NBA championship one)

You know who he reminds me of? Joe Ingles. I love Joe Ingles, btw.

I just hate overhyping and glossing over obvious red flags. To say that Doncic, THIS doncic, would be #2 in the 2017 is asenine for me. Since we spoke the first time, I watched two entire games of his because I thought you were right and I was being unfair. I also watched tons of other highlights not to be embarassed in discussions like this by not having knowledge on how he plays, and I'm not impressed.

As in mocks, sure, he might go top 3 because he'd be the youngest guy in the draft and just on sheer potential alone a team would roll the dice on him, but there are many guys I'd pick over him. Just to give an example of a guy who'll play the same position on defense (SF/PF), I believe Jonathan Isaac is way better than Doncic.

Again, we have overrating and exaggerating the level of defense, length, and athleticism in the NBA, while simultaneously underrating the level of defense, length, and athleticism in the EuroLeague. I don't understand why actual basic objective analysis is so hard when it comes to NBA and EuroLeague discussions.

Also, Doncic at age 18 is better than Joe Ingles was in his mid 20s in Europe. Half of the time Ingles was with Barca and Maccabi in EuroLeague, he was playing below average. He's a more efficient shooter in NBA quite frankly.

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=003062#!careerstats

5.6 points 44.3% field goals 34.9% 3 PT FG in EuroLeague

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2968436/joe-ingles

5.4 points 43.4% field goals 40.1% 3 PT FG in NBA

Doncic is already a better player than Ingles.

[Foliohattu]

Doncic is already a better player than Ingles.

You mean better than Ingles right now?