Cade Cunningham

[Yuri Vaultin]

Should I ask again? You're strangely silent considering all the evidence you apparently have from your "research"...
frankly, if you don't answer I might begin to suspect you're just a troll.

The pro Cade guys keep proving my point. Any time anyone points out anything negative about him you get attacked mercilessly. You guys are way too emotionally attached to him.

Because you talk in incredibly vague generalities.

Here is a simple and straightforward question:
What SPECIFICALLY concerns you about Cade’s social media presence that makes you think him garbage?

[GSWFan1994]

Now that's a research worth diving deeper.

[bkseven]

OFC they do. You OTOH are looking at them and acting like you see things that no teammate,coach, or scout on the planet sees. As I said you post more like a guy who lost his GF to Cade then a person scouting him.

I'd love to know who your previous realgm account was before you made a account last May. I bet you've got some real good takes on that one about previous players.

I actually have invested a lot of time in scouting Cade’s online presence, and there are some things I’ve seen that I don’t like. These aren’t the kind of things that coaches & teammates are going to admit to. I don’t think a lot of other scouts have looked as deep as I have into this stuff. You can learn a lot from a guys social media accounts.

such as? his instagram seems fairly generic for an athlete

He's just a troll. Cade's IG is pretty much strictly basketball lol.

[clyde21]

The so called "It" factor. lol

Based on youtube highlights as well, an even bigger lol. Using his "social media presence" against him, WTF?

I get that Cade has some flaws (just about every prospect in history does) but some of the lengths some people here will go to discredit him as a prospect are laughable and horribly misinformed and this is the only place where I see such harsh criticism of him. It's all just so odd.

FTR, I have no problem with somebody saying that Green, for instance, has a higher ceiling. That's perfectly reasonable as Green has some rare athletic gifts that very few prospects have.

Firstly I’ve never once said a thing about YouTube. Secondly let me repeat myself. Every. employer. looks. at. social. media. Yours, mine, and you are damn sure that NBA teams are going over them with a fine toothed comb. So you can laugh all you want, but the facts are the facts.

bruh, I told you before, this usual garbage might work on the GB but it doesnt work here where people actually want to discuss and analyze prospects legitimately...this **** won't fly here.

[Big J]

Based on youtube highlights as well, an even bigger lol. Using his "social media presence" against him, WTF?

I get that Cade has some flaws (just about every prospect in history does) but some of the lengths some people here will go to discredit him as a prospect are laughable and horribly misinformed and this is the only place where I see such harsh criticism of him. It's all just so odd.

FTR, I have no problem with somebody saying that Green, for instance, has a higher ceiling. That's perfectly reasonable as Green has some rare athletic gifts that very few prospects have.

Firstly I’ve never once said a thing about YouTube. Secondly let me repeat myself. Every. employer. looks. at. social. media. Yours, mine, and you are damn sure that NBA teams are going over them with a fine toothed comb. So you can laugh all you want, but the facts are the facts.

bruh, I told you before, this usual garbage might work on the GB but it doesnt work here where people actually want to discuss and analyze prospects legitimately...this **** won't fly here.

wtf you talking about man? Me delving into character issues may not seem "legitimate" to you, but I can tell you that NBA teams take that stuff very seriously. Why do you think they put these guys through such a rigorous interview process?

[zeebneeb]

So what's the concensus on the Cade downers here, as in what do you see being such massive negatives, that his game will not translate to the NBA?

Honest question, let's get some honest answers here, and then have a debate over those points.

you'll probably get more of that in the beginning of this thread and sprinkled throughout part 1 of the 2021 draft thread. All the legit concerns have pretty much been covered during the course of the season. We're now in the "down your guy to boost my guy" segment of the year.

Not a "Cade downer" But from this guy's perspective: Cade needs to tighten his handle and become as technically sound with the PnR as possible to alleviate some of the burst concerns and that will help his defensive manipulation. Continue to work on his 5 hour shots because that will be key to his scoring potential. I think all PGs at this level should have a go to floater, Cade adding that puts another layer and option to his hostage dribble. In terms of the turnover rate, the handle like was previously mentioned can get tighter under pressure and just deciding to take what he can without forcing things. For the glaring weaknesses and deficiencies that can be pointed to, most are rep based offsets. Putting the time in to improve on or add to his game dulls a lot of that noise IMO.

This is accurate, and sensible. The only thing I would add(more like mention)is that Cade's turnover rate is inflated to a certain degree based on opposing teams consistently loading up on him, as he always had the ball in his hands because he was his teams, well, everything.

Will he be doubled, and pressured in the NBA? Of course, but he will have legitimate outlets, and secondary ball handlers to ease that, especially Killian Hayes.

Everything else I agree with 100%.

[Yuri Vaultin]

wtf you talking about man? Me delving into character issues may not seem "legitimate" to you, but I can tell you that NBA teams take that stuff very seriously. Why do you think they put these guys through such a rigorous interview process?

Still waiting for you to provide even a modicum of proof supporting your "I looked at his social media and wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole" baloney...

[Marcus]

So what's the concensus on the Cade downers here, as in what do you see being such massive negatives, that his game will not translate to the NBA?

Honest question, let's get some honest answers here, and then have a debate over those points.

you'll probably get more of that in the beginning of this thread and sprinkled throughout part 1 of the 2021 draft thread. All the legit concerns have pretty much been covered during the course of the season. We're now in the "down your guy to boost my guy" segment of the year.

Not a "Cade downer" But from this guy's perspective: Cade needs to tighten his handle and become as technically sound with the PnR as possible to alleviate some of the burst concerns and that will help his defensive manipulation. Continue to work on his 5 hour shots because that will be key to his scoring potential. I think all PGs at this level should have a go to floater, Cade adding that puts another layer and option to his hostage dribble. In terms of the turnover rate, the handle like was previously mentioned can get tighter under pressure and just deciding to take what he can without forcing things. For the glaring weaknesses and deficiencies that can be pointed to, most are rep based offsets. Putting the time in to improve on or add to his game dulls a lot of that noise IMO.

This is accurate, and sensible. The only thing I would add(more like mention)is that Cade's turnover rate is inflated to a certain degree based on opposing teams consistently loading up on him, as he always had the ball in his hands because he was his teams, well, everything.

Will he be doubled, and pressured in the NBA? Of course, but he will have legitimate outlets, and secondary ball handlers to ease that, especially Killian Hayes.

Everything else I agree with 100%.

i personally don't think Cade sees the type of attention he got in college right away until he proves he's worth it. So I didn't put a ton into the turnovers he accumulated due to teams loading up on him as a huge strike against him. Would it be nice to not see those? sure but coming in i'd focus more on what a prospect can prevent or accomplish possession by possession in the league. Once they've cleared that hurdle, then we get into the adjustments the league makes to them, finally finishing with whatever re-adjustments the player can make to the new environment. Cade to me handled the loading at a decent rate, obviously some misreads and forces but more times than not right play, hit or miss on the results. The former is on him to improve, the latter not so much.

[Duke4life831]

Ill throw in my 5 cents on the Tatum/Cade footwork talk from yesterday.

There is different footwork for different skill sets. Ya I do think Tatum at Duke had the superior footwork when it came to mid range and post work. There was a reason back in the day Tatum was being compared to Melo, it was because of how good he was at creating space in the mid range.

Cade has much more craftier footwork dealing with his handle. I feel like people only really talk about footwork when it comes to post and mid range, but I think guys like Luka and Harden have really shown what great footwork with your handle can get you in the league. Its the stop and go ability, their feet are always in perfect position to basically attack in any direction. Luka isn't super athletic and he doesnt have like a Kyrie kind of handle, but he gets where he wants whenever he wants because of his size and footwork. Cade's level of footwork in that department is far better than Tatum's.

[Duke4life831]

go back and look @ the fultz threads

Aight, so you know what it feels like to go with your gut against the consensus. Anything negative that you say incites an angry lynch mob against you. Fultz is case study number one as to why it should be acceptable to critique these guys at the top who aren’t Zion level talents.

you could've just said it's a gut feelin from the get go, people will respect that a lot more than the nonsense yall have spewed the last few pages about sportscenter highlights or that he's a 3/D wing.

Yup just look at me and how high I am on Kuminga. I throw some basic reasons on why Im a fan (size, athleticism, skill set foundation), but Ive been more than willing to tell people that I just have a feeling he is going to be damn good. I watch him and I see IT with him. That is a gut thing and I totally get why most people dont agree with me on him.

[Marcus]

Aight, so you know what it feels like to go with your gut against the consensus. Anything negative that you say incites an angry lynch mob against you. Fultz is case study number one as to why it should be acceptable to critique these guys at the top who aren’t Zion level talents.

you could've just said it's a gut feelin from the get go, people will respect that a lot more than the nonsense yall have spewed the last few pages about sportscenter highlights or that he's a 3/D wing.

Yup just look at me and how high I am on Kuminga. I throw some basic reasons on why Im a fan (size, athleticism, skill set foundation), but Ive been more than willing to tell people that I just have a feeling he is going to be damn good. I watch him and I see IT with him. That is a gut thing and I totally get why most people dont agree with me on him.

I been feeling for ya bud. Johnny has been getting trashed all over the place in some of these spaces. I kept thinking "my man Duke gotta be wincing reading these takes about his guy"

[Slim Charlez]

wtf you talking about man? Me delving into character issues may not seem "legitimate" to you, but I can tell you that NBA teams take that stuff very seriously. Why do you think they put these guys through such a rigorous interview process?

Still waiting for you to provide even a modicum of proof supporting your "I looked at his social media and wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole" baloney...

That's the weirdest part of his argument, his social media is as generic as it gets and on the court he looked like a pretty good teammate to me. You saw him cheer his team on while on the bench, everyone seemed to like him, dude must have some sort of agenda.

[Duke4life831]

you could've just said it's a gut feelin from the get go, people will respect that a lot more than the nonsense yall have spewed the last few pages about sportscenter highlights or that he's a 3/D wing.

Yup just look at me and how high I am on Kuminga. I throw some basic reasons on why Im a fan (size, athleticism, skill set foundation), but Ive been more than willing to tell people that I just have a feeling he is going to be damn good. I watch him and I see IT with him. That is a gut thing and I totally get why most people dont agree with me on him.

I been feeling for ya bud. Johnny has been getting trashed all over the place in some of these spaces. I kept thinking "my man Duke gotta be wincing reading these takes about his guy"

Haha what you talking about? Takes like, Kuminga being in his mid 20s and the laziest prospect in the draft? And other amazing takes like that? haha.

Haha Ill stick with the multiple years of reports on how Kuminga goes all out and always impresses during practices for all the big tournaments and elite camps. I get he is much rawer than the other top 4 guys, Ive uh promoted myself from Mayor of Kuminga Island to President, maybe dictator soon, we'll see how it goes. Calling it now, 2.5 years from now the property on Kuminga island is going to be going up up and up.

Ill say this about Cade (to keep it somewhat on topic for the thread haha), Ive never really been super high on him (but never had him out of the top 5), but I think we are no doubt getting into the area of people over thinking things and searching for the tiniest holes in his game.

Some of these takes on these guys are something else haha.

[Marcus]

Yup just look at me and how high I am on Kuminga. I throw some basic reasons on why Im a fan (size, athleticism, skill set foundation), but Ive been more than willing to tell people that I just have a feeling he is going to be damn good. I watch him and I see IT with him. That is a gut thing and I totally get why most people dont agree with me on him.

I been feeling for ya bud. Johnny has been getting trashed all over the place in some of these spaces. I kept thinking "my man Duke gotta be wincing reading these takes about his guy"

Haha what you talking about? Takes like, Kuminga being in his mid 20s and the laziest prospect in the draft? And other amazing takes like that? haha.

Haha Ill stick with the multiple years of reports on how Kuminga goes all out and always impresses during practices for all the big tournaments and elite camps. I get he is much rawer than the other top 4 guys, Ive uh promoted myself from Mayor of Kuminga Island to President, maybe dictator soon, we'll see how it goes. Calling it now, 2.5 years from now the property on Kuminga island is going to be going up up and up.

Ill say this about Cade (to keep it somewhat on topic for the thread haha), Ive never really been super high on him (but never had him out of the top 5), but I think we are no doubt getting into the area of people over thinking things and searching for the tiniest holes in his game.

Some of these takes on these guys are something else haha.

i applaud your restraint sir. just remember names and post so you can close the wagon doors if Kuminga takes off lol.

But yeah the Cade stuff is top pick stuff every year, since i've been posting here maybe only Towns hasn't had that kind of last leg to the draft energy about his name. Even someone as can't miss as Zion had this going on as well. It is what it is.

Cade definitely has his flaws and his ceiling IMO isn't in the same convo as the possibilities of some of the other kids in the class but nothing about him or his game says bust to me. From off the radar, to being re-positioned and putting himself on the map, to holding the spot with the talent in the class behind him taking leaps in skillset, to turning the most pointed to flaw in his game into a positive, embracing the idea of going first, accepting the responsibility of it, and bringing the energy that essentially says "i'm aware of what it is and i want that pressure" there's not a lot there that tells me the kid won't work and won't try his best to be great. Just let the rest play out at this point.

[DCasey91]

Cade Cunningham Final Assessment:

Look I’ll be honest I’m not enamored by Cade’s game not to say I think he’ll be a stinker I just think he won’t be as great as earlier reports was made out to be.

Main Concerns:

1. Feet Movement - Two massive differences that I saw in Cade’s game verses other “slower” paced players. People that watch sports closely know they aren’t slow at all, in fact it’s what you do with your feet that’s most important. Cade has two very very weak points here. Firstly he is a slow mover in that I’m not seeing twinkle toes under there add to the fact he doesn’t have as deep of a trick bag as other “slow moving players”. Never saw really really advanced “tricky moves” to throw the defender in a loop never saw it so I can’t say he has it in his arsenal. Tatum/Pierce/Luka/Mullin etc all have it and then some. Cade does not. Hence why separation is key. Basic stuff will get scouted for and easily read at the next level. He’s closer to RJ in that aspect which I’ll get to further on below.

2. Handle - Some good % of his turnovers just come from having a loose handle. It is loose. Not tight.
Got to get a screwdriver and tighten the handle all the way up. That will help him a lot.

3. Size - I know he’s listed at 6”8” and has an impressive wingspan. But and I say this for a wing he’s sized appropriately. Watching him with his hair tied he’s more 6”7ish. Good size for a wing but nothing too extreme here.

4. Facilitating - Good passer. Advanced for his age on the reads and plays. Didn’t see the special passing chops that was alluding early on so once again can’t comment on it.

5. Heavy reliance on the vanilla not enough chocolate. How do I say this. His shooting is class but it remains to be seen at the next level. Does have a sprinkle of Booker (Booker though once again has a deeper scoring toolkit) but at the next level it’s going to be harder vs better defenders and sized matchups. His interior scoring creating game isn’t the greatest (more psychical dependent then skill) and he does do the team thing. I know he can take over the scoring would have like to have seen it more earlier on in the game. At the next level he most likely will have 4-15 shooting games or to that extent.

Positives -

Enough about the negatives here

1. Shooting - Really good especially moreso on the perimeter. Shot it really well for his size. Was tasked with closing out the scoring and did it really really well all things considered. I see more of that at the next level (Scoring/Shooting Wing + Secondary Playmaker/Facilitator). He’s a smart cookie. Worked on the 5 hourglass which should have happened to RJ, so age for age Cade is well ahead. You’ll see more 2nd yr development skilled RJ in Cade imo.

2 - Leadership. Second best leader in the class after Suggs. A team that hasn’t got direction at the top for a long while (Wolves anyone?) would happily take Cade to be their leader. His team performed really well given the talent on that squad which wasn’t all that high let’s be honest.

3 - Base. I mean Cade really does have a very very good base to work from here. He actually showed sound development transferable skills (shooting) in College which I like.

Overall - Look Cade can be a polarizing prospect but for me I’ve settled on him awhile back. Is he generational? No. But will he be good? Most likely.

Outlook - Here’s where I am at with Cade. A wing scorer/shooter and an ancillary not primary playmaker/facilitator with solid two way potential ability.

I’d say 20-22/5-6/5-6 is my best guess. Couple of All Stars (3 or more) mixed in between.

For me he falls somewhere in the middle of a more Polished Barrett and a Smaller Tatum/Bigger Hayward with less pop and less finesse.

[Marcus]

Cade Cunningham Final Assessment:

Look I’ll be honest I’m not enamored by Cade’s game not to say I think he’ll be a stinker I just think he won’t be as great as earlier reports was made out to be.

Main Concerns:

1. Feet Movement - Two massive differences that I saw in Cade’s game verses other “slower” paced players. People that watch sports closely know they aren’t slow at all, in fact it’s what you do with your feet that’s most important. Cade has two very very weak points here. Firstly he is a slow mover in that I’m not seeing twinkle toes under there add to the fact he doesn’t have as deep of a trick bag as other “slow moving players”. Never saw really really advanced “tricky moves” to throw the defender in a loop never saw it so I can’t say he has it in his arsenal. Tatum/Pierce/Luka/Mullin etc all have it and then some. Cade does not. Hence why separation is key. Basic stuff will get scouted for and easily read at the next level. He’s closer to RJ in that aspect which I’ll get to further on below.

2. Handle - Some good % of his turnovers just come from having a loose handle. It is loose. Not tight.
Got to get a screwdriver and tighten the handle all the way up. That will help him a lot imo.

3. Size - I know he’s listed at 6”8” and has an impressive wingspan. But and I say this for a wing he’s sized appropriately. Watching him with his hair tied he’s more 6”7ish. Good size for a wing but nothing too extreme here.

4. Facilitating - Good passer. Advanced for his age on the reads and plays. Didn’t see the special passing chops that was alluding early on so once again can’t comment on it.

5. Heavy reliance on the vanilla not enough chocolate. How do I say this. His shooting is class but it remains to be seen at the next level. Does have a sprinkle of Booker (Booker though once again has a deeper scoring toolkit) but at the next level it’s going to be harder vs better defenders and sized matchups. His interior scoring creating game isn’t the greatest (more psychical dependent then skill) and he does do the team thing. I know he can take over the scoring would have like to have seen it more earlier on in the game. At the next level he most likely will have 4-15 shooting games or to that extent.

Positives -

Enough about the negatives here

1. Shooting - It’s class especially moreso on the perimeter. Shot it really well for his size. Was tasked with closing out the scoring and did it really really well all things considered. I see more of that at the next level (Scoring Wing + Secondary Playmaker/Facilitator). He’s a smart cookie. Worked on the 5 hourglass which should have happened to RJ, so age for age Cade is well ahead. You’ll see more 2nd yr development skilled RJ in Cade imo.

2 - Leadership. Second best leader in the class after Suggs. A team that hasn’t got direction at the top for a long while (Wolves anyone?) would happily take Cade to be their leader. His team performed really well given the talent on that squad which wasn’t all that high let’s be honest.

3 - Base. I mean Cade really does have a very very good base to work from here. He actually showed sound development transferable skills (shooting) in College which I like.

Overall - Look Cade can be a polarizing prospect but for me I’ve settled on him awhile back. Is he generational? No. But will he be good? Most likely.

Outlook - Here’s where I am at with Cade. A wing scorer/shooter and an ancillary not primary playmaker/facilitator with solid two way potential ability.

I’d say 20-22/5-6/5-6 is my best guess. Couple of All Stars (3 or more) mixed in between.

For me he falls somewhere in the middle of a more Polished Barrett and a Smaller Tatum/Bigger Hayward with less pop and less finesse.

Thank you sir. Stuff like this is why i love this board.

[DCasey91]

Watch on YouTube

A random game highlight clip. But this how I envision Cade’s game to be at the next level. He’s a better shooter then RJ so the 2nd yr thing is what I’m getting at.

Funnily enough RJ has leadership quality written all over him too even in College.

RJ for me is a better rebounder but Cade which is more important to me is a better shooter.

It’s at ends with each other but the reasons why someone like RJ/Siakam can mightily struggle is they are both banking on something in which they are both not the greatest at (shooting). Hence why their scoring and efficiency takes a dip in the playoffs.

In between game is so very very important.

At the higher end PG faces the same thing can be well inconsistent on it.

[Big J]

I think even those of us who are down on Cade admit he's going to be good. I've said all along he comps to Hedo Turkoglu. Turk was a borderline 2/3 on that Magic team that made the finals. That is a solid player that any team would love to have. My beef is that there are a few of other guys in this class who have a legitimate chance to be generational guys. Why go with the "safe" pick when there are guys who could carry your team to multiple titles. I've said this before, but Cade's game is also not the most aesthetically appealing, so even if you are getting someone good, he's not the kind of guy that's going be exciting to watch game after game.

[Charm]

He comps to Hedo in that he's gonna need 'roids to hold up physically in the NBA...even more so because he's an inch or two shorter.

People are too obsessed with jumpshots these days. Yeah shooting is important. But unless a player is an all-time great shooter, and it's way too early to say that with Cade, having a good jumpshot isn't enough to make up for being average-to-bad at everything else.

[azcatz11]

I think even those of us who are down on Cade admit he's going to be good. I've said all along he comps to Hedo Turkoglu. Turk was a borderline 2/3 on that Magic team that made the finals. That is a solid player that any team would love to have. My beef is that there are a few of other guys in this class who have a legitimate chance to be generational guys. Why go with the "safe" pick when there are guys who could carry your team to multiple titles. I've said this before, but Cade's game is also not the most aesthetically appealing, so even if you are getting someone good, he's not the kind of guy that's going be exciting to watch game after game.

So were you trolling about his SM?