Lonzo Ball

Post #501 » by **Duke4life831** » Thu Mar 9, 2017 8:11 am

Im going to clarify why I brought up Steve Nash. Im not saying their styles are similar, I understand Ball rarely uses the PnR while Nash was one of the best PnR PGs of all time. All Im talking about is a PG can be an elite PG without taking a ton of shots at the rim. Guys can be very impactful while taking a small amount of shots at the rim.

Curry 17% of his shots in his career come at the rim
Nash had 3 all star seasons of sub 20% and one with 14% of his shots at the rim
J Kidd (the guy he gets compared to all the time) 18% of his shots came at the rim
Ball so far this year 36% of his shots have come at the rim

This is the only reason I brought up Nash, everyone doesnt have to be Kyrie or Westbrook where close to or sometimes over 30% of their shots come at the rim. Now I agree 100% that Ball really needs to add a 10ft floater to his game. He has shown it rarely this year but I think it really needs to become a bigger part of his game. So if youre asking me if Lonzo in his prime will be able to get 15-18% of his shots at the rim, im going to say yes. Hes not incapable of driving and scoring at the rim, its just not that big of a part of his game. I do think he needs to improve his FT%, needs to add a floater and needs to improve his handle. Those are 3 things that he should be able to improve given time, we have to remember he is not a finished product. I also feel like the best parts of his game are things that are much harder to teach which is why I think he is such a good prospect, like his IQ, vision and passing.

Higgs Boston · Post #502 » by **Higgs Boston** » Thu Mar 9, 2017 10:50 am

MrMiyagi wrote:What the hell is everyone talking about Nash not being able to get to the hoop?

Yes, this is funny.
Nash was fast, had great handle, good driver to the hoop, great and fast shooter. Is very different in comparison to Ball.

gaspar · Post #503 » by **gaspar** » Thu Mar 9, 2017 11:57 am

MrMiyagi wrote:What the hell is everyone talking about Nash not being able to get to the hoop?
Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Almost his whole game was predicated on attacking the hoop in pick and roll action. Or did y'all just forget that?
Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Yeah, apparently some people don't know that Nash had a career before he played for the Lakers.

reanimator · Post #504 » by **reanimator** » Thu Mar 9, 2017 2:41 pm

I think Fultz and Ball are the only offensive anchors in this draft. Maybe DSJ and Jackson develops into that later. You can build around those two.

Post #505 » by **Marcus** » Thu Mar 9, 2017 2:47 pm

Higgs Boston wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:What the hell is everyone talking about Nash not being able to get to the hoop?

Yes, this is funny.
Nash was fast, had great handle, good driver to the hoop, great and fast shooter. Is very different in comparison to Ball.

Great points except nobody compared Nash to Ball game wise.

Higgs Boston · Post #506 » by **Higgs Boston** » Thu Mar 9, 2017 3:21 pm

Marcus wrote:
Higgs Boston wrote:
MrMiyagi wrote:What the hell is everyone talking about Nash not being able to get to the hoop?

Yes, this is funny.
Nash was fast, had great handle, good driver to the hoop, great and fast shooter. Is very different in comparison to Ball.

Great points except nobody compared Nash to Ball game wise.

There are people doing this indirectly, I just made a summary regarding to the differences.

TKainZero · Post #507 » by **TKainZero** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:53 am

Ucla vs Arizona tonight 1130pm est on espn

National game
Let's see how they play
Winner likely vs Oregon in PAC 12 championship. And winner of that likely 1 seed out west

Post #508 » by **Marcus** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:32 am

So regarding his handle. He needs to get lower with it and put some urgency in his bounce. He's very lazy on the pound which you absolutely cannot afford to do when you dribble as upright as he does.

TKainZero · Post #509 » by **TKainZero** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:57 am

Okay
Ball sucked

That was bad

Post #510 » by **Marcus** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:06 am

TKainZero wrote:Okay
Ball sucked

That was bad

Back to back bad games for him. Tonight the team as a whole was off and appeared to have no legs. Zona was up for that one and UCLA didn't match. Lauri was nuts tonight.

TKainZero · Post #511 » by **TKainZero** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:40 am

Marcus wrote:
TKainZero wrote:Okay
Ball sucked

That was bad

Back to back bad games for him. Tonight the team as a whole was off and appeared to have no legs. Zona was up for that one and UCLA didn't match. Lauri was nuts tonight.

Back to back is part of the game

Ball didn't step up
Let's see what he can do as the 3rd seed out west

Post #512 » by **Duffman100** » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:50 pm

Don't like that release of his jumper. He brings it up low and in front of his body. Better NBA defenders are going to strip him.

Post #513 » by **Marcus** » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:56 pm

I can't wait until we see him in the league so this shooting form narrative can finally go away.

cksdayoff · Post #514 » by **cksdayoff** » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:04 pm

Marcus wrote:I can't wait until we see him in the league so this shooting form narrative can finally go away.

Lonzo's gonna be an elite 3 point shooter. He also has a pretty quick stepback behind the 3 point line if he needs to create space from his defender.

madmaxmedia · Post #515 » by **madmaxmedia** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:02 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:Im going to clarify why I brought up Steve Nash. Im not saying their styles are similar, I understand Ball rarely uses the PnR while Nash was one of the best PnR PGs of all time. All Im talking about is a PG can be an elite PG without taking a ton of shots at the rim. Guys can be very impactful while taking a small amount of shots at the rim.

Curry 17% of his shots in his career come at the rim
Nash had 3 all star seasons of sub 20% and one with 14% of his shots at the rim
J Kidd (the guy he gets compared to all the time) 18% of his shots came at the rim
Ball so far this year 36% of his shots have come at the rim

This is the only reason I brought up Nash, everyone doesnt have to be Kyrie or Westbrook where close to or sometimes over 30% of their shots come at the rim. Now I agree 100% that Ball really needs to add a 10ft floater to his game. He has shown it rarely this year but I think it really needs to become a bigger part of his game. So if youre asking me if Lonzo in his prime will be able to get 15-18% of his shots at the rim, im going to say yes. Hes not incapable of driving and scoring at the rim, its just not that big of a part of his game. I do think he needs to improve his FT%, needs to add a floater and needs to improve his handle. Those are 3 things that he should be able to improve given time, we have to remember he is not a finished product. I also feel like the best parts of his game are things that are much harder to teach which is why I think he is such a good prospect, like his IQ, vision and passing.

He actually is very effective right now taking it to the rim, with those long arms he is typically able to flip up a shot right under the basket. He may not do it a lot but it usually seems to work out. I don't know if there is enough collected data for a full shot chart, I'd be really surprised if his success rate at the rim was bad.

He doesn't seem to have a floater, although I have seen him pull up or step back at that 8-10 ft. range. That's not going to work as well though getting shots over big interior defenders.

In the long run though, I think his success in the NBA will be dictated by 2 things- his ability to run an offense, and his 3-point shooting to keep defenders honest. He's not dynamic enough athletically to be great at all things, but do those 2 things well and he can have a very good NBA career.

Stadium5 · Post #516 » by **Stadium5** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:11 pm

Marcus wrote:I can't wait until we see him in the league so this shooting form narrative can finally go away.

Agreed

High talented players always find a way to just make things work. Never heard of shooting form really determine someone's future outside of an MKG or something.

Look at Marion's form for all those years

RingsDontLie · Post #517 » by **RingsDontLie** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:49 am

I don't see Ball's game translating well into the NBA. He's going to be one of those great prospects whose game got exposed when entering the NBA. He might last a few seasons but I see him struggling against real NBA talent. His movements to me are robotic and a bit too textbook. I credit his work ethic and IQ for getting him this far. He's great for college, but unfortunately he's not a natural like these nba types.

Great players make things look effortless. When I watch Ball it's not effortless for him. And against lengthy, quick, and strong players he's going to struggle and be humbled quick. His slow and awkward shot release won't help his game. I think his ego is a bit much right now too, so I don't think he'll cope well being a role player in the NBA which is why I don't see him lasting long. Truth be told I see him as a Jeremy Lin type of player. Which is not bad, LIn got paid and Ball gonna get paid regardless. But Ball won't be an all star and he probably will be 2nd string or worse.

TKainZero · Post #518 » by **TKainZero** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:18 am

3rd seed in the south

Ouch

Post #519 » by **Marcus** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:16 pm

RingsDontLie wrote:I don't see Ball's game translating well into the NBA. He's going to be one of those great prospects whose game got exposed when entering the NBA. He might last a few seasons but I see him struggling against real NBA talent. His movements to me are robotic and a bit too textbook. I credit his work ethic and IQ for getting him this far. He's great for college, but unfortunately he's not a natural like these nba types.

Great players make things look effortless. When I watch Ball it's not effortless for him. And against lengthy, quick, and strong players he's going to struggle and be humbled quick. His slow and awkward shot release won't help his game. I think his ego is a bit much right now too, so I don't think he'll cope well being a role player in the NBA which is why I don't see him lasting long. Truth be told I see him as a Jeremy Lin type of player. Which is not bad, LIn got paid and Ball gonna get paid regardless. But Ball won't be an all star and he probably will be 2nd string or worse.

I was hearing you out in the first paragraph because there are plenty of flaws in his game and legit reasons for why/how he could bust relative to where he'll be drafted. But then you reverted to the issues everyone else brings up. The shot, which hasn't been a problem for him. and his ego, which I have to ask, where have you seen any signs of an ego problem from Lonzo?

RingsDontLie · Post #520 » by **RingsDontLie** » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:49 am

Marcus wrote:
RingsDontLie wrote:I don't see Ball's game translating well into the NBA. He's going to be one of those great prospects whose game got exposed when entering the NBA. He might last a few seasons but I see him struggling against real NBA talent. His movements to me are robotic and a bit too textbook. I credit his work ethic and IQ for getting him this far. He's great for college, but unfortunately he's not a natural like these nba types.

Great players make things look effortless. When I watch Ball it's not effortless for him. And against lengthy, quick, and strong players he's going to struggle and be humbled quick. His slow and awkward shot release won't help his game. I think his ego is a bit much right now too, so I don't think he'll cope well being a role player in the NBA which is why I don't see him lasting long. Truth be told I see him as a Jeremy Lin type of player. Which is not bad, LIn got paid and Ball gonna get paid regardless. But Ball won't be an all star and he probably will be 2nd string or worse.

I was hearing you out in the first paragraph because there are plenty of flaws in his game and legit reasons for why/how he could bust relative to where he'll be drafted. But then you reverted to the issues everyone else brings up. The shot, which hasn't been a problem for him. and his ego, which I have to ask, where have you seen any signs of an ego problem from Lonzo?

His shot hasn't been a problem for him at the college level. Look college to NBA is a huge gap...even Division 1 college agreed? He seems quick enough to get separation but against these quicker, lengthy NBA players his shot will be a problem. Not to say he can't make shots, but he'll struggle to create for himself with that slow awkward release of his.

Ego..well I've read some articles and have seen some videos. But his ego has swelled from being a top 3 pick consideration I'm guessing. He's a more athletic Jeremy Lin to me. There will be a team that gives him a chance. I know the Lakers recruitment team is top notch so I'm certain they will pass on him if they keep their top 3 pick.

Ball is a wasted high pick. He's a guy that peaked in college. It's downhill from college. Many good guys who had great college careers take a huge dive when they get to the NBA. Ball looks to be one of those guys at first glance.