RJ Barrett

[Duke4life831]

It shouldn't. I'm pretty sure he's just making the point that there's no reason to think RJ is a better defender than Romeo aside from reputation or athleticism.

Size/athleticism definitely matters. Barrett is a substantially better rebounder (can easily imagine him having an even bigger edge there if he wasn't competing for boards with Zion) and playing with a much bigger offensive load. Also it has been well-documented that teams/players tend to perform better when behind and worse than ahead, so an apparent defensive lapse when one's team is up by 20+ points is not as huge of a deal to me as it would be to the people who form more of their opinion off of GIFs. Also I was saying that reputation *should* matter if two players are considered relatively close; there's a lot more than 16 college games to go off of.

Reputation shouldn't matter if the reputation doesn't translate to on-court success. RJ isn't a good defender right now. It shouldn't matter at all if he was one at a lower level.

Not sure how anyone can watch both players and think RJ is the better defender (haven't seen Romeo's most recent game, but I doubt it changed that much).

I will say, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt if they have a reputation going in. Sometimes it also just takes guys longer to adjust to college. For example Luke Kennard had a reputation as a sharpshooter coming into Duke, but was a horrible shooter his entire freshman year. Even with that I still held out hope his shooting would come around.

Now with that said, reputation and benefit of the doubt can only go so far. Sooner or later you have to get to the point where you just say the reputation was wrong. Also it's not like RJ had a Justise Winslow kind of reputation on defense. He was known as a solid defender at best. I think we are getting a clear imagine on the kind of defender RJ is. It's not a good one.

[nolang1]

It shouldn't. I'm pretty sure he's just making the point that there's no reason to think RJ is a better defender than Romeo aside from reputation or athleticism.

Size/athleticism definitely matters. Barrett is a substantially better rebounder (can easily imagine him having an even bigger edge there if he wasn't competing for boards with Zion) and playing with a much bigger offensive load. Also it has been well-documented that teams/players tend to perform better when behind and worse than ahead, so an apparent defensive lapse when one's team is up by 20+ points is not as huge of a deal to me as it would be to the people who form more of their opinion off of GIFs. Also I was saying that reputation *should* matter if two players are considered relatively close; there's a lot more than 16 college games to go off of.

Reputation shouldn't matter if the reputation doesn't translate to on-court success. RJ isn't a good defender right now. It shouldn't matter at all if he was one at a lower level.

Not sure how anyone can watch both players and think RJ is the better defender (haven't seen Romeo's most recent game, but I doubt it changed that much).

I'm talking about how they can be in the NBA, not how they are in college, and like I said before I'm adjusting for stuff like offensive load and team dynamics (Duke is #4 in adjusted defensive efficiency and has been the #1 team in the country). They both look like they can be fine enough defenders in the NBA but not really anything to write home about. Bottom line is if Reddish and Jones had been healthy yesterday (or if Jack White hadn't gone 0-10 on mostly open threes) I don't think there would be nearly as much concern being expressed about Barrett's defense.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Size/athleticism definitely matters. Barrett is a substantially better rebounder (can easily imagine him having an even bigger edge there if he wasn't competing for boards with Zion) and playing with a much bigger offensive load. Also it has been well-documented that teams/players tend to perform better when behind and worse than ahead, so an apparent defensive lapse when one's team is up by 20+ points is not as huge of a deal to me as it would be to the people who form more of their opinion off of GIFs. Also I was saying that reputation *should* matter if two players are considered relatively close; there's a lot more than 16 college games to go off of.

Reputation shouldn't matter if the reputation doesn't translate to on-court success. RJ isn't a good defender right now. It shouldn't matter at all if he was one at a lower level.

Not sure how anyone can watch both players and think RJ is the better defender (haven't seen Romeo's most recent game, but I doubt it changed that much).

I'm talking about how they can be in the NBA, not how they are in college, and like I said before I'm adjusting for stuff like offensive load and team dynamics (Duke is #4 in adjusted defensive efficiency and has been the #1 team in the country). They both look like they can be fine enough defenders in the NBA but not really anything to write home about. Bottom line is if Reddish and Jones had been healthy yesterday (or if Jack White hadn't gone 0-10 on mostly open threes) I don't think there would be nearly as much concern being expressed about Barrett's defense.

It has nothing to do with his game last night and everything to do with his consistently poor defense this entire season.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Size/athleticism definitely matters. Barrett is a substantially better rebounder (can easily imagine him having an even bigger edge there if he wasn't competing for boards with Zion) and playing with a much bigger offensive load. Also it has been well-documented that teams/players tend to perform better when behind and worse than ahead, so an apparent defensive lapse when one's team is up by 20+ points is not as huge of a deal to me as it would be to the people who form more of their opinion off of GIFs. Also I was saying that reputation *should* matter if two players are considered relatively close; there's a lot more than 16 college games to go off of.

Reputation shouldn't matter if the reputation doesn't translate to on-court success. RJ isn't a good defender right now. It shouldn't matter at all if he was one at a lower level.

Not sure how anyone can watch both players and think RJ is the better defender (haven't seen Romeo's most recent game, but I doubt it changed that much).

I will say, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt if they have a reputation going in. Sometimes it also just takes guys longer to adjust to college. For example Luke Kennard had a reputation as a sharpshooter coming into Duke, but was a horrible shooter his entire freshman year. Even with that I still held out hope his shooting would come around.

Now with that said, reputation and benefit of the doubt can only go so far. Sooner or later you have to get to the point where you just say the reputation was wrong. Also it's not like RJ had a Justise Winslow kind of reputation on defense. He was known as a solid defender at best. I think we are getting a clear imagine on the kind of defender RJ is. It's not a good one.

If they have the reputation and it works, great; but if they have it and it fails, that bums me out. If they have the reputation and are VERY poor, you question the reputation in the first place.

Look at Nas, Cam, Grimes, etc and where their reputations were last year vs now. HUGE difference!

[Duke4life831]

Size/athleticism definitely matters. Barrett is a substantially better rebounder (can easily imagine him having an even bigger edge there if he wasn't competing for boards with Zion) and playing with a much bigger offensive load. Also it has been well-documented that teams/players tend to perform better when behind and worse than ahead, so an apparent defensive lapse when one's team is up by 20+ points is not as huge of a deal to me as it would be to the people who form more of their opinion off of GIFs. Also I was saying that reputation *should* matter if two players are considered relatively close; there's a lot more than 16 college games to go off of.

Reputation shouldn't matter if the reputation doesn't translate to on-court success. RJ isn't a good defender right now. It shouldn't matter at all if he was one at a lower level.

Not sure how anyone can watch both players and think RJ is the better defender (haven't seen Romeo's most recent game, but I doubt it changed that much).

I'm talking about how they can be in the NBA, not how they are in college, and like I said before I'm adjusting for stuff like offensive load and team dynamics (Duke is #4 in adjusted defensive efficiency and has been the #1 team in the country). They both look like they can be fine enough defenders in the NBA but not really anything to write home about. Bottom line is if Reddish and Jones had been healthy yesterday (or if Jack White hadn't gone 0-10 on mostly open threes) I don't think there would be nearly as much concern being expressed about Barrett's defense.

But the defensive issues with RJ aren't being brought up just because of last night's game. I know Knicks and I have been talking about RJ's defense practically all season. Duke is #4 in defense in spite of RJ's defense. The entire team is constructed of really good defensive players except for RJ and Alex O'Connell. I just feel like RJ's defense has stood out like a sore thumb all year long.

[Stillwater]

Based on what? Athleticism? Reputation?

I don't get why reputation shouldn't matter at all. These guys didn't just suddenly materialize on a college campus in October.

It shouldn't. I'm pretty sure he's just making the point that there's no reason to think RJ is a better defender than Romeo aside from reputation or athleticism.

Yep probably and to my point I see a better defender at the next level in RJ than what I have seen from Langford not based at all on reputation even if his defense is nothing stellar

[Stillwater]

Okay for those saying RJ is a good defender, please point to me a game where he played good defense. I usually watch Duke games twice. First time just as a Duke die hard and the second time looking at the prospects. I usually end up saying the same thing both times I watch Duke games, "RJ is such a bad defender".

RJ gets beat off the dribble far too often, he gets lost far too often and he has some of the more lazy rotations out of the other 1st round guys. His bad defense also sticks out like a sore thumb because he is playing with 3 other freshmen that are playing really good defense. So to me it's clear as day what good and bad defense looks like when looking at the Duke freshmen.

I see somebody who is not engaged defensively and is probably taking off plays etc not necessarily indicative of a bad defensive player but more likely a average defender not putting in the effort.
The sad truth is he is a better defender than Langford and Langford is trying to play defense.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I don't get why reputation shouldn't matter at all. These guys didn't just suddenly materialize on a college campus in October.

It shouldn't. I'm pretty sure he's just making the point that there's no reason to think RJ is a better defender than Romeo aside from reputation or athleticism.

Yep probably and to my point I see a better defender at the next level in RJ than what I have seen from Langford not based at all on reputation even if his defense is nothing stellar

Not sure why. Romeo has been legitimatley good in isolation, actually TRIES on defense, is using his strength around the rim, and is a DAMN good positional defender (although he sometimes ball watches too much - which I've talked about on Twitter). His defensive IQ is well ahead of RJ's, on top of everything else.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Okay for those saying RJ is a good defender, please point to me a game where he played good defense. I usually watch Duke games twice. First time just as a Duke die hard and the second time looking at the prospects. I usually end up saying the same thing both times I watch Duke games, "RJ is such a bad defender".

RJ gets beat off the dribble far too often, he gets lost far too often and he has some of the more lazy rotations out of the other 1st round guys. His bad defense also sticks out like a sore thumb because he is playing with 3 other freshmen that are playing really good defense. So to me it's clear as day what good and bad defense looks like when looking at the Duke freshmen.

I see somebody who is not engaged defensively and is probably taking off plays etc not necessarily indicative of a bad defensive player but more likely a average defender not putting in the effort.
The sad truth is he is a better defender than Langford and Langford is trying to play defense.

I'm done here. This is absurd.

Good luck, Duke4!

[nolang1]

Reputation shouldn't matter if the reputation doesn't translate to on-court success. RJ isn't a good defender right now. It shouldn't matter at all if he was one at a lower level.

Not sure how anyone can watch both players and think RJ is the better defender (haven't seen Romeo's most recent game, but I doubt it changed that much).

I'm talking about how they can be in the NBA, not how they are in college, and like I said before I'm adjusting for stuff like offensive load and team dynamics (Duke is #4 in adjusted defensive efficiency and has been the #1 team in the country). They both look like they can be fine enough defenders in the NBA but not really anything to write home about. Bottom line is if Reddish and Jones had been healthy yesterday (or if Jack White hadn't gone 0-10 on mostly open threes) I don't think there would be nearly as much concern being expressed about Barrett's defense.

It has nothing to do with his game last night and everything to do with his consistently poor defense this entire season.

Which again begs the question of how bad it could possibly be for Duke to have the defensive efficiency they do with Barrett playing so many minutes. He's not getting picked on defensively, and beyond that it's about the kind of team he ends up on and how much work he's willing to put in on the next level. Neither player is gonna make or break a team's defense at the next level, and like I said Barrett is a much better rebounder (contrary to popular belief this does actually matter for defense, even moreso when it comes to getting contested rebounds in traffic) and should have an easier time guarding bigger players.

[Stillwater]

It shouldn't. I'm pretty sure he's just making the point that there's no reason to think RJ is a better defender than Romeo aside from reputation or athleticism.

Yep probably and to my point I see a better defender at the next level in RJ than what I have seen from Langford not based at all on reputation even if his defense is nothing stellar

Not sure why. Romeo has been legitimatley good in isolation, actually TRIES on defense, is using his strength around the rim, and is a DAMN good positional defender (although he sometimes ball watches too much - which I've talked about on Twitter). His defensive IQ is well ahead of RJ's, on top of everything else.

I guess you have seen more INDY games then I have... don't see enough ability to lock anyone up besides smaller guards and yes he does try to play defense unlike RJ who can but doesn't usually stay focused on it

[Stillwater]

Okay for those saying RJ is a good defender, please point to me a game where he played good defense. I usually watch Duke games twice. First time just as a Duke die hard and the second time looking at the prospects. I usually end up saying the same thing both times I watch Duke games, "RJ is such a bad defender".

RJ gets beat off the dribble far too often, he gets lost far too often and he has some of the more lazy rotations out of the other 1st round guys. His bad defense also sticks out like a sore thumb because he is playing with 3 other freshmen that are playing really good defense. So to me it's clear as day what good and bad defense looks like when looking at the Duke freshmen.

I see somebody who is not engaged defensively and is probably taking off plays etc not necessarily indicative of a bad defensive player but more likely a average defender not putting in the effort.
The sad truth is he is a better defender than Langford and Langford is trying to play defense.

I'm done here. This is absurd.

Good luck, Duke4!

Alright I'll stop ...notice I'm a UNC fan

[Duke4life831]

Okay for those saying RJ is a good defender, please point to me a game where he played good defense. I usually watch Duke games twice. First time just as a Duke die hard and the second time looking at the prospects. I usually end up saying the same thing both times I watch Duke games, "RJ is such a bad defender".

RJ gets beat off the dribble far too often, he gets lost far too often and he has some of the more lazy rotations out of the other 1st round guys. His bad defense also sticks out like a sore thumb because he is playing with 3 other freshmen that are playing really good defense. So to me it's clear as day what good and bad defense looks like when looking at the Duke freshmen.

I see somebody who is not engaged defensively and is probably taking off plays etc not necessarily indicative of a bad defensive player but more likely a average defender not putting in the effort.
The sad truth is he is a better defender than Langford and Langford is trying to play defense.

But he's not though. This is coming from a massive Duke homer and someone who has never been high on Langford. I don't see how you can say Langford has been worse defensively on or off the ball vs RJ.

Also the not being engaged and taking plays off shouldn't be an excuse. This isn't Trae Young trying to carry a bad Oklahoma team. RJ is basically playing for the Warriors of college basketball. He has no excuse of taking plays off when you're playing alongside Zion/Cam/Tre. If he is taking plays off while being on this stacked of a team. You shouldn't ever expect him to be engaged when he is on a team with less talent.

I don't see one aspect of defense where RJ can be considered even average, except for defensive rebounding. He is horrible at keeping the ball handler in front of him, he gets lost off the ball constantly and he is lazy in his rotations which leads to him always being the guy watching the opposing player dunk in the highlight tape for the other team. It's always RJ because he's too late to rotate, or just too slow and doesn't step up and just watches guys dunk. He's been horrible defensively this year.

[Stillwater]

Okay for those saying RJ is a good defender, please point to me a game where he played good defense. I usually watch Duke games twice. First time just as a Duke die hard and the second time looking at the prospects. I usually end up saying the same thing both times I watch Duke games, "RJ is such a bad defender".

RJ gets beat off the dribble far too often, he gets lost far too often and he has some of the more lazy rotations out of the other 1st round guys. His bad defense also sticks out like a sore thumb because he is playing with 3 other freshmen that are playing really good defense. So to me it's clear as day what good and bad defense looks like when looking at the Duke freshmen.

I see somebody who is not engaged defensively and is probably taking off plays etc not necessarily indicative of a bad defensive player but more likely a average defender not putting in the effort.
The sad truth is he is a better defender than Langford and Langford is trying to play defense.

But he's not though. This is coming from a massive Duke homer and someone who has never been high on Langford. I don't see how you can say Langford has been worse defensively on or off the ball vs RJ.

Also the not being engaged and taking plays off shouldn't be an excuse. This isn't Trae Young trying to carry a bad Oklahoma team. RJ is basically playing for the Warriors of college basketball. He has no excuse of taking plays off when you're playing alongside Zion/Cam/Tre. If he is taking plays off while being on this stacked of a team. You shouldn't ever expect him to be engaged when he is on a team with less talent.

I don't see one aspect of defense where RJ can be considered even average, except for defensive rebounding. He is horrible at keeping the ball handler in front of him, he gets lost off the ball constantly and he is lazy in his rotations which leads to him always being the guy watching the opposing player dunk in the highlight tape for the other team. It's always RJ because he's too late to rotate, or just too slow and doesn't step up and just watches guys dunk. He's been horrible defensively this year.

Yeah I don't think either one are good defenders tbh ,my troll was about RJ's lack of effort but to me it's effort that makes determining RJ is or isn't capable of being a two way player confusing where as the other guy is putting in the effort and it's nothing special either.

[Duke4life831]

I see somebody who is not engaged defensively and is probably taking off plays etc not necessarily indicative of a bad defensive player but more likely a average defender not putting in the effort.
The sad truth is he is a better defender than Langford and Langford is trying to play defense.

But he's not though. This is coming from a massive Duke homer and someone who has never been high on Langford. I don't see how you can say Langford has been worse defensively on or off the ball vs RJ.

Also the not being engaged and taking plays off shouldn't be an excuse. This isn't Trae Young trying to carry a bad Oklahoma team. RJ is basically playing for the Warriors of college basketball. He has no excuse of taking plays off when you're playing alongside Zion/Cam/Tre. If he is taking plays off while being on this stacked of a team. You shouldn't ever expect him to be engaged when he is on a team with less talent.

I don't see one aspect of defense where RJ can be considered even average, except for defensive rebounding. He is horrible at keeping the ball handler in front of him, he gets lost off the ball constantly and he is lazy in his rotations which leads to him always being the guy watching the opposing player dunk in the highlight tape for the other team. It's always RJ because he's too late to rotate, or just too slow and doesn't step up and just watches guys dunk. He's been horrible defensively this year.

Yeah I don't think either one are good defenders tbh ,my troll was about RJ's lack of effort but to me it's effort that makes determining RJ is or isn't capable of being a two way player confusing where as the other guy is putting in the effort and it's nothing special either.

The thing with RJ is, I agree he has a lack of effort. But it's even the times when he does try, he still has been horrible on that end. Its been way too many times when I see him get into his defensive stance then just watch the ball handler go right by him. Then him getting lost defensively or making the wrong rotation, not because of lack of effort, but honestly just not knowing what is good defense.

I don't think Langford has been great defensively, but I didn't have much expectations for him on that end going into the year and he's been a pleasant surprise for me on that end. I don't think he has potential to be a lock down defender, I think both guys project to be bad defenders in the NBA. But I think Langford has shown some promise, which is more than I can say for RJ.

[King Ken]

R.J. is the head scratcher of this class. Someone so talented but someone so at times unmotivated. He is a WIP for anyone who drafts him.

[King Ken]

I clearly see R.J. being a good defender at times and am awful one at other times. I can't say R.J. is this R.J. Hunter level defensive player. R.J. does defend but he is so inconsistent on the defensive side of the court.

He has ability, that's where I disagree with D4L but he is like the college Westbrook. It's kinda

[Duke4life831]

I clearly see R.J. being a good defender at times and am awful one at other times. I can't say R.J. is this R.J. Hunter level defensive player. R.J. does defend but he is so inconsistent on the defensive side of the court.

He has ability, that's where I disagree with D4L but he is like the college Westbrook. It's kinda

Wiggins had/has the ability, Jabari had/has a lot more defensive ability than he has shown, the list goes on and on. First I think RJ's defensive ability gets severely hampered with his lack of lateral agility. He is just not a fluid athlete, especially laterally. In transition and in the open court, I think hes a really good athlete, but half court and laterally not so much.

Also a good defensive possession here or there doesnt mean much. The majority of the time RJ is making mistake after mistake defensively. Right now when it comes to RJ's defense, it seems like the only positives people can point to are

He just doesnt put in the effort
He has a good reputation, it will translate soon
He has the potential to be a good defender

To me it just seems like people trying to come up with different excuses to avoid calling him a bad defender. And I am one that has been pretty positive when it comes to "bad" defenders at Duke. I praised Tatum all year long for his defense when the vast majority were calling him a horrible defender. Even last year with Bagley I was saying I saw plenty of defensive potential. I just dont see it with RJ.

[clyde21]

i think Barrett will do okay defensively vs. bigger/stronger types, but will struggle vs. players with quick first steps because of his stiff hips and awkward lateral movement.

what will make or break him on that end of the court though is his team defense. he's got the tools to be passable there, just needs to get that recognition speed up and actually try harder.

[GimmeDat]

Anyone a lock to go top 3 should declare. Simple as that.