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EvanZ wrote:

Hal14 wrote:

EvanZ wrote:Even if one doesn't think Noah and Horford are "exceptional" athletes (fine, we can argue degree), it's clear to me they are significantly better athletes than Sengun. If you think they are all in the same tier athletically you're making a big mistake.

what could horford/noah do at age 18 in terms of athleticism that Sengun can't?

A 6'10" big man who is throwing down 360 dunks in transition, throwing down dunks in the half court from just inside the FT line, showing good burst on chase-down blocks and hitting step-back 3's, all at age 18 playing in a professional league vs grown men sounds like pretty good athleticism to me.

Move laterally? I mean you guys think athleticism is literally one-dimensional.

1) There's many aspects to athleticism. Even if Sengun isn't as quick laterally (not exactly top of the list of attributes you look for in a center), that still doesn't mean he's not on par with Horford or Noah at age 18 in terms of athleticism.

2) Got any clips, links or anything that indicates Horford and Noah were quicker/more coordinated when moving laterally in game situations at age 18 than Sengun?

EvanZ wrote:

nolang1 wrote:

EvanZ wrote:
I read it. Where in there did you mention the 2006 Draft?

Hope this makes it even more clear (if not, go back and read it again):

Joakim Noah was a sophomore in 2005-06. He was the best player on Florida, the team that won the NCAA championship that year (they also won the NCAA championship the following year, so they won it in back-to-back years). He put up great, efficient numbers across the board. If he had exceptional physical attributes on top of that, everyone would've been talking about how he was one of the best prospects to come into the draft in the past several years. He would've been considered the unanimous #1 pick in the weak 2006 NBA draft and a franchise changing-talent, at which point he would've had absolutely zero incentive to remain in college and even his teammates and coaches would've been forcing him to go pro. Instead, because he in fact wasn't a super explosive athlete and had dimensions similar to Sengun's, questions persisted about how his game would translate to the NBA and whether he was a power forward or center, so he elected to return to school.

This is called begging the question. Look it up.

It's actually much more likely he wasn't seen as a top prospect so early because he was undersized for a typical center. Remember, this was 2006. Same for Horford. Back then the question all the time was about "tweeners". Both Noah and Horford were prototypical tweeners for that era. Had nothing to do with not being athletic.

Noah measured 7' in shoes at the combine. If he was additionally a Dwight Howard level athlete, on top of his college success...yeah, he would've been the #1 pick in 2006.

Just curious if we have recent official measurements. He looks like he is shorter than 6'10" to me.

To get things back on topic, though, I think if you're looking at Sengun's struggles with perimeter defense, there's a lot more to it that just a lack of lateral quickness. The players he's trying to contain in these clips are often veterans with a decade+ of professional experience attacking switches, and there's no switch they love to attack more than a jumpy 18-year-old. Hell, Micic even had Garuba doing the splits on one play, and Garuba's a more adept perimeter defender than pretty much any other teenage big. It's to Sengun's credit that he actually gets a significant number of steals and blocks on the perimeter, where many players his age would get torched every single play against pro competition.

EvanZ wrote:Even if one doesn't think Noah and Horford are "exceptional" athletes (fine, we can argue degree), it's clear to me they are significantly better athletes than Sengun. If you think they are all in the same tier athletically you're making a big mistake.

Sengun looks pretty fast in the open court and seems to elevate really well, you don't put up that kind of steals and blocks without being an athlete. In the end it doesn't matter if he's good because he's athletic or because he has an incredible BBIQ the point is he is pretty damn good on defense and that projects well.

Charm wrote:Noah measured 7' in shoes at the combine. If he was additionally a Dwight Howard level athlete, on top of his college success...yeah, he would've been the #1 pick in 2006.

Who said he is a Dwight Howard level athlete? Not me. You don't have to be a "Dwight Howard level athlete" to be significantly better athlete than Sengun.

New tape of Sengun against russia with Mozgov

EvanZ wrote:

Charm wrote:Noah measured 7' in shoes at the combine. If he was additionally a Dwight Howard level athlete, on top of his college success...yeah, he would've been the #1 pick in 2006.

Who said he is a Dwight Howard level athlete? Not me. You don't have to be a "Dwight Howard level athlete" to be significantly better athlete than Sengun.

I'm agreeing with nolang's claim from earlier:

If Noah had been considered an exceptional athlete in conjunction with the numbers he put up leading Florida to the title as a sophomore, he would've left as a unanimous #1 pick billed as a generational type of big man prospect.

But Noah wasn't a Dwight Howard level athlete. He was just a pretty good athlete for an NBA big, which is also true of Sengun. I still don't know why you're so doggedly convinced that there's something wrong with Sengun physically or athletically.

Mozgov listed at 7’1”. Sengun looks to be an inch or so shorter. I suspect Sengun is 6’10” barefoot, maybe 6’11.5” in shoes (NBA height measurement). Both guys look like what they are: centers.

greenandgold wrote:Mozgov listed at 7’1”. Sengun looks to be an inch or so shorter. I suspect Sengun is 6’10” barefoot, maybe 6’11.5” in shoes (NBA height measurement). Both guys look like what they are: centers.

Mozgov (#15 in white in that clip) is 7-1 barefoot. He was listed at 7-1 in Russia and by FIBA before he came to the NBA. Russian players are listed by barefoot height.

Mozgov isn't just a legit size big man, he's a straight out monster. The guy is enormous, and he was enormous in the NBA. He's absolutely huge. He was almost always the biggest guy on an NBA floor.

KayAllTheWaay wrote:

Watch on YouTube

New tape of Sengun against russia with Mozgov

I don't really think he's a PF, but that play at 5:50 was a perfect PF kind of play. Pops out to the weakside corner on the drive, fakes the 3 to get Mozgov just a little bit off balance, easily drives baseline with his non-dominant hand, and finishes strong through contact for the and-1. Developing into a real triple-threat guy in those situations, which is a pretty big deal at 6'10"+

KayAllTheWaay wrote:

Watch on YouTube

New tape of Sengun against russia with Mozgov

That pass at 1:00...

EMG518 wrote:Just curious if we have recent official measurements. He looks like he is shorter than 6'10" to me.

Willing to bet he measures out around 6'8- 6'9 with shoes.

Joel Bolomboy was listed at 6-9 in shoes in the NCAA.

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/videos/_/id/2983551/joel-bolomboy

6' 9", 235 lbs

https://weberstatesports.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/joel-bolomboy/3597

HEIGHT 6-9

Joel Bolomboy was listed at 6-9 in shoes in the NBA G-League.

https://gleague.nba.com/player/joel-bolomboy/

HEIGHT
6' 9"

Joel Bolomboy was listed at 6-9 in shoes in the NBA.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1627762/career/

HEIGHT
6'9" (2.06m)

He was measured at 6-7 1/2 barefoot by the NBA.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2639745-nba-combine-results-2016-thursday-measurements-highlights-and-top-prospects

Joel Bolomboy Height w/o Shoes 6'7.5''

Andrey Vorontsevich is listed by FIBA, the Russian VTB United League, and the EuroLeague (so barefoot height listings) at 207 centimeters, or 2.07 meters, which is equal to 6' 9 1/2".

https://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=LHI#!careerstats

HEIGHT: 2.07

http://www.fiba.basketball/eurobasket/2022/qualifiers/player/Andrey-Vorontsevich

Height:
207cm / 6'9"

https://vtb-league.com/en/player/18923/?seasonId=8513

207 cm

So we know that Joel Bolomboy is 6-7 1/2 without shoes and 6-9 in shoes. We can then verify that Andrey Vorontsevich is indeed about 2 inches taller than Bolomboy, and is 6-9 1/2 without shoes, because they were teammates on the EuroLeague team CSKA Moscow.



Joel Bolomboy (6-7 1/2 barefoot) is #3 and Andrey Vorontsevich (6-9 1/2 barefoot ) is #20. Vorontsevich is clearly taller. It's not debatable.

Now in the Russia vs. Turkey video that was posted here:



Andrey Vorontsevich (6-9 1/2 barefoot) is playing on the Russian team (#20 in the white jerseys). He is on the floor at times in the clip with Sengun (#23 in the red jerseys), and they are even guarding each other at times.

You can also see Omer Yurtseven, listed at 7-0 by the NBA in those clips (#77 in red jersey). Yurtseven and Sengun are together on the floor at times in that clip.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630209/career/

HEIGHT
7'0" (2.13m)

I think Sertac Sanli is a legit 7 footer. And here is Sengün next to him. Number 9 and 14 are both listed as 6'9. At this point, anything below 6'9 without shoes would surprise me.

You guys have to understand, people think 6'9 and 6'10 is undersized, because they've been sold that guys like Joel Embiid who was 6'11.5 is actually 7'3, or that a bunch of PFs who are 6'10ish are over 7 feet tall.

I personally think the shoe measurement thing is bizarre and too open to every deciding how much they want to add on and just leads to arguments or whatever. Sengun is plenty big, strong, and athletic enough to be a C in today's NBA. That's probably the least concerning thing with him.

DaddyCool19 wrote:

I think Sertac Sanli is a legit 7 footer. And here is Sengün next to him. Number 9 and 14 are both listed as 6'9. At this point, anything below 6'9 without shoes would surprise me.

Hold up. Hold up. #21 is listed as 6'11". I mean he's clearly several inches taller than Sengun.

What are we even talking about?

Sengun is no more than 6'9" barefoot. He's listed at 6'9". There's no reason not to believe that measurement. NONE.

Fran Fraschilla dropped an interesting nugget in the podcast with Chad Ford. He spoke to Amath Mbaye about Sengun and Mbaye said Sengun is way stronger than people realize and that he is just a monster inside. I think his strength is being overlooked, especially his lower body is quite strong

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Curtis Lemansky wrote:Fran Fraschilla dropped an interesting nugget in the podcast with Chad Ford. He spoke to Amath Mbaye about Sengun and Mbaye said Sengun is way stronger than people realize and that he is just a monster inside. I think his strength is being overlooked, especially his lower body is quite strong

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If you know anything about Sengun it's that he's strong. That's like the one thing I think everyone here agrees on.