Markelle Fultz

[nolang1]

Always saw him as a 2 anyway.

In the sense that Harden, young D-Wade, and Brandon Roy were technically shooting guards who played as point guards on offense, sure. You certainly don't need to play a shorter player next to any of those guys or Fultz for the sake of tradition or whatever.

[Marcus]

Always saw him as a 2 anyway.

In the sense that Harden, young D-Wade, and Brandon Roy were technically shooting guards who played as point guards on offense, sure. You certainly don't need to play a shorter player next to any of those guys or Fultz for the sake of tradition or whatever.

Yeah same mold. Non-traditional, score first, playmaking capable big guards.

[nolang1]

Always saw him as a 2 anyway.

In the sense that Harden, young D-Wade, and Brandon Roy were technically shooting guards who played as point guards on offense, sure. You certainly don't need to play a shorter player next to any of those guys or Fultz for the sake of tradition or whatever.

Yeah same mold. Non-traditional, score first, playmaking capable big guards.

At the same time, his playmaking ability is very underrated because he could have gone to Eastern Washington and played with a better supporting cast than he had this year. I wouldn't rank his passing far behind that of even the most "pure" point guard prospects. Much closer to this past season's Harden than the other two in terms of the scoring and passing being at a near 50/50 balance.

[Marcus]

In the sense that Harden, young D-Wade, and Brandon Roy were technically shooting guards who played as point guards on offense, sure. You certainly don't need to play a shorter player next to any of those guys or Fultz for the sake of tradition or whatever.

Yeah same mold. Non-traditional, score first, playmaking capable big guards.

At the same time, his playmaking ability is very underrated because he could have gone to Eastern Washington and played with a better supporting cast than he had this year. I wouldn't rank his passing far behind that of even the most "pure" point guard prospects. Much closer to this past season's Harden than the other two in terms of the scoring and passing being at a near 50/50 balance.

playmaking in terms of creating for others is underrated. I think where I differ in opinion in terms of him being a "PG" is in mindset. PG mindset is a specific thing. Getting teammates in the right spots, picking on mismatches when available, looking to set up others first and foremost is all PG mindset. Kelle looks for his spots first, his shot next, and passes off of reaction. None of that is a bad thing because some of that is a part of being a PG. knowing when to go and when to show is important and he's very good at that but I think folks look as his Huskie run as the synopsis of what he is due to his role there. Kid is just as effective off the ball and him being a secondary table setter attacking closeouts hitting cutters and bigs for finishes when he's not getting his own would be ideal for him in general to me but especially in the beginning while he's learning his spots in the NBA.

[hickfromfrenchlick]

I just spent 10 minutes searching for this thread. :/ Surprised that, for over a month, there are no comments in the thread that's dedicated to the consensus #1 pick.

I don't follow college hoop, but from all I've read/watched it really seems he's a can't miss guy. Other than one poster, who kind of derailed the topic IMO, I couldn't find a reasonable take of why he might not be worthy of a #1 pick.

I would be really interested to hear such arguments, what are some of the concerns you have about him? E.g., I can't find one reason why would someone take Ball over him. You can even play devil's advocate if you will.

- His season actually wasn’t that amazing. Of the DX top 10 Fultz is only 8th in WS/48 and 6th in BPM, behind Jackson and Ball in both. Before considering impact concerns considering his team’s record.

- Not as good a 3pt shooting prospect as advertised. Lots of reason to think that when predicting 3pt one should look at 3pt volume and FT% in addition to NCAA 3P%. Since Fultz is 64% FT this makes him more of an average 3pt shooting prospects (projected at 34-35% on a site I recently read). Ingram last year was an example of a “great shooting prospect” who’s 60s FT% showed holes in that statement. If Fultz doesn’t shoot 3s well it also makes the IT issue bigger.

- Analytics guys note that PPG is one of the worst stats to use to predict NBA success. Stats like steals, blocks, assists, rebounds, efficiency carry over better. So this is an issue for Fultz since points per game is the bread and butter of why he’s rated #1. He's pretty good in the other stats but not #1 level over Ball and Jackson

- Non elite athlete. “Yeah but it’ll be fine” was used to describe Evan Turner and D’Angelo Russell coming into the draft as well and it ended up being a huge concern. On the other hand players like Harden and Kyrie weren’t top level athletes either.

- This is totally unfair, but could Fultz in worst case scenario be PG Jahlil Okafor? Remember how much scouts drooled on Okafor’s “advanced” offensive game for his age, his footwork, isolation skillset? Just because you look the part in terms of moves doesn’t mean it always comes together. I see Fultz worst case scenario as a scorer being a guy who isn't that good at 3s, isn't explosive enough to get to the rim as often as expected, so he just puts up these crappy wannabe Kobe midrange shots. For me I don't think ability to hit difficult shots is going to matter unless those difficult shots are from 3 or the rim. Nobody wants a shot creating midrange option anymore. Even for the patron saint of midrange shots DeMar Derozan, it only ends up ok for him because he's one of the best at getting to the rim/FT line of his position.

Post =/= handle

[Lalouie]

I'll say it one last time.... People will be questioning Fultz's desire and work ethic .

[oddwolfhooligan]

I'll say it one last time.... People will be questioning Fultz's desire and work ethic .

If anyone is skeptical about his desire and work ethic, then they're misplacing that skepticism. Fultz has never been lacking in either of those categories and I've heard multiple people in the know rave about how driven he is.

[Slartibartfast]

Yeah same mold. Non-traditional, score first, playmaking capable big guards.

At the same time, his playmaking ability is very underrated because he could have gone to Eastern Washington and played with a better supporting cast than he had this year. I wouldn't rank his passing far behind that of even the most "pure" point guard prospects. Much closer to this past season's Harden than the other two in terms of the scoring and passing being at a near 50/50 balance.

playmaking in terms of creating for others is underrated. I think where I differ in opinion in terms of him being a "PG" is in mindset. PG mindset is a specific thing. Getting teammates in the right spots, picking on mismatches when available, looking to set up others first and foremost is all PG mindset. Kelle looks for his spots first, his shot next, and passes off of reaction. None of that is a bad thing because some of that is a part of being a PG. knowing when to go and when to show is important and he's very good at that but I think folks look as his Huskie run as the synopsis of what he is due to his role there. Kid is just as effective off the ball and him being a secondary table setter attacking closeouts hitting cutters and bigs for finishes when he's not getting his own would be ideal for him in general to me but especially in the beginning while he's learning his spots in the NBA.

It's not really a PG mindset according to the realities on the ground in the NBA. Scoring is the primary role of the PG in the modern NBA. There's still a handful of blatant pass-first guys like Rondo, Payton and Rubio, but half of the PGs in the league are score-first combo guards, and a lot the rest are closer to the combos than the pass-first guys.

I think Fultz falls somewhere in the middle of the spectrum of current NBA pgs. And considerably more old-school PG instincts and abilities than outright SGs playing PG like George Hill and Pat Beverley.

[Ettorefm]

At the same time, his playmaking ability is very underrated because he could have gone to Eastern Washington and played with a better supporting cast than he had this year. I wouldn't rank his passing far behind that of even the most "pure" point guard prospects. Much closer to this past season's Harden than the other two in terms of the scoring and passing being at a near 50/50 balance.

playmaking in terms of creating for others is underrated. I think where I differ in opinion in terms of him being a "PG" is in mindset. PG mindset is a specific thing. Getting teammates in the right spots, picking on mismatches when available, looking to set up others first and foremost is all PG mindset. Kelle looks for his spots first, his shot next, and passes off of reaction. None of that is a bad thing because some of that is a part of being a PG. knowing when to go and when to show is important and he's very good at that but I think folks look as his Huskie run as the synopsis of what he is due to his role there. Kid is just as effective off the ball and him being a secondary table setter attacking closeouts hitting cutters and bigs for finishes when he's not getting his own would be ideal for him in general to me but especially in the beginning while he's learning his spots in the NBA.

It's not really a PG mindset according to the realities on the ground in the NBA. Scoring is the primary role of the PG in the modern NBA. There's still a handful of blatant pass-first guys like Rondo, Payton and Rubio, but half of the PGs in the league are score-first combo guards, and a lot the rest are closer to the combos than the pass-first guys.

I think Fultz falls somewhere in the middle of the spectrum of current NBA pgs. And considerably more old-school PG instincts and abilities than outright SGs playing PG like George Hill and Pat Beverley.

They're not pass-first PGs, they're can't-shoot PGs. There is a reason why Payton and Rubio only pass, and is because they can't score properly.

Chris Paul and Steve Nash were pass first PGs. They could score 20 easily (Heck, Paul could average 30 and still chose to assist guys first) yet went with involving the whole team first second and third.

Looking to pass when you can't do anything else and being 'pass first' is just as funny as saying Jr Smith is 'score-first'. No, he's score only. He can't pass, it's not that he doesn't like to

Markelle is a score-first guy, because that was his focus on Washington. But he has shown that he can pass, run an offense.

[Duke4life831]

Yeah same mold. Non-traditional, score first, playmaking capable big guards.

At the same time, his playmaking ability is very underrated because he could have gone to Eastern Washington and played with a better supporting cast than he had this year. I wouldn't rank his passing far behind that of even the most "pure" point guard prospects. Much closer to this past season's Harden than the other two in terms of the scoring and passing being at a near 50/50 balance.

playmaking in terms of creating for others is underrated. I think where I differ in opinion in terms of him being a "PG" is in mindset. PG mindset is a specific thing. Getting teammates in the right spots, picking on mismatches when available, looking to set up others first and foremost is all PG mindset. Kelle looks for his spots first, his shot next, and passes off of reaction. None of that is a bad thing because some of that is a part of being a PG. knowing when to go and when to show is important and he's very good at that but I think folks look as his Huskie run as the synopsis of what he is due to his role there. Kid is just as effective off the ball and him being a secondary table setter attacking closeouts hitting cutters and bigs for finishes when he's not getting his own would be ideal for him in general to me but especially in the beginning while he's learning his spots in the NBA.

Agreed and this is why I think many people have compared him to D'Angelo Russell. Russell was another PG with good vision and passing ability but he first looks to score, secondly looks to score then his third option is to pass. Both guys are serviceable as facilitators because of their vision and passing ability but both are wired to be scorers first. And after 2 years in the league, it looks like LA is finally going to move Russell over to the 2. I won't be shocked if the same happens with Fultz at some time as well.

[TheOGJabroni]

I'll say it one last time.... People will be questioning Fultz's desire and work ethic .

The guy that is quoted saying he wants to win MVP next year?

[Duke4life831]

I'll say it one last time.... People will be questioning Fultz's desire and work ethic .

The guy that is quoted saying he wants to win MVP next year?

I want a guy that says he would be good enough to get into the HOF after one year. Saying he just wants to be MVP? Definitely questionable...

[reanimator]

DLo and Fultz are not similar passers, even if I get comparing their mentalities. DLo is a Manu-style ball whipper from stagnant positions.

[Slartibartfast]

DLo and Fultz are not similar passers, even if I get comparing their mentalities. DLo is a Manu-style ball whipper from stagnant positions.

For real. I don't understand the confusion over Fultz' position. He's clearly an NBA PG.

[wjun15]

Fultz is basically a poormans wade with better shot but slightly less athleticsm

[HotelVitale]

Fultz is basically a poormans wade with better shot but slightly less athleticsm

Doesn't seem that useful since Fultz doesn't have much shake to him while Wade could get separation all day. Fultz has that jump shooter's game, Wade was a straight guts-of-the-defense slasher.

[cksdayoff]

I'll say it one last time.... People will be questioning Fultz's desire and work ethic .

How did u even come up with that conclusion. the kid wants to be the best ever. he lives in the gym. he was known as a mom to his huskies teammates because he enforced the 11 pm curfew rule on his teammates every night. his closest friends are his mom and his personal mentor/trainer who taught him how to play the game since he was 8 or 9 years old. so I don't see how you could come up with such a statement.

[nolang1]

Fultz is basically a poormans wade with better shot but slightly less athleticsm

Doesn't seem that useful since Fultz doesn't have much shake to him while Wade could get separation all day. Fultz has that jump shooter's game, Wade was a straight guts-of-the-defense slasher.

You don't *need* as much shake (and don't really even get the ability to show it off if you do have some) when defenses aren't playing off you and going under every screen because of your shooting ability, but I think something like this qualifies as a decent amount of shake:




Also Wade was technically a junior when he entered the draft so I don't know how much ability he had at age 18 to get separation.

[Lalouie]

I'll say it one last time.... People will be questioning Fultz's desire and work ethic .

The guy that is quoted saying he wants to win MVP next year?

i

He's also said "I'm bored". Has been noted that he doesn't always bring 100%, and he didn't help Washington even a smidgen

[SelfishPlayer]

Fultz is basically a poormans wade with better shot but slightly less athleticsm

Doesn't seem that useful since Fultz doesn't have much shake to him while Wade could get separation all day. Fultz has that jump shooter's game, Wade was a straight guts-of-the-defense slasher.

You don't *need* as much shake when defenses aren't playing off you and going under every screen because of your shooting ability, but I think something like this qualifies as a decent amount of shake:




Also Wade was technically a junior when he entered the draft so I don't know how much ability he had at age 18 to get separation.

That gif is proof of concern. Fultz had to use a spin move to get by a college big man. That reminds me of Evan Turner in college. The athletes only get better on the next level, will Fultz's moves get better? How much better can you get than what he did in that gif?