Luka Doncic

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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#581 » by Sports Geek » Thu Feb 9, 2017 6:22 pm

Sir Psycho Sexy wrote:If you didn't watch him this game you missed something special. He plays like a 25 yo


I did. Again the team is a completely different one with him on the court. No idea how much the +/- was (can someone share that stat?, I never find it), but again, when he is running the offense, we win. 5 points, 7 rebounds, 11 assists. 18 PIR in 24 minutes. He should take more shots in my opinion (only 5), but he is so unselfish... He chooses wisely, he prefers to find a teammate in a better spot than to force a 1 on 1 situation. Even when most of the times he finds a way to score when he does it.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#582 » by Sports Geek » Thu Feb 9, 2017 6:25 pm

UcanUwill wrote:yeah I watched. He wasn't scoring at all, but his impact is undeniable. Made some sweat passes and had a very clutch rebound and basket near the end there.


And that 1vs1 faking the shot then taking half a step forward and scoring with a minute left in the 4th.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#583 » by UcanUwill » Thu Feb 9, 2017 6:30 pm

Sports Geek wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:yeah I watched. He wasn't scoring at all, but his impact is undeniable. Made some sweat passes and had a very clutch rebound and basket near the end there.


And that 1vs1 faking the shot then taking half a step forward and scoring with a minute left in the 4th.


Yeah, that was sweat, not the first time seeing him pulling of that. He spent most of the game with just 2 field goal attempts, just at the very end of the game he scored that one, and chucked 2 threes with the shotclock winding down when the game was already decided.
His defense against Langford tho was bad, couldn't stay in front of him at all.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#584 » by Sports Geek » Thu Feb 9, 2017 6:51 pm

UcanUwill wrote:His defense against Langford tho was bad, couldn't stay in front of him at all.


Yeah, I expected that though. But taking into account his teammates had the same problem... I missed Rudy today, he is a better fit for Langford.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#585 » by UcanUwill » Thu Feb 9, 2017 6:55 pm

Sports Geek wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:His defense against Langford tho was bad, couldn't stay in front of him at all.


Yeah, I expected that though. But taking into account his teammates had the same problem... I missed Rudy today, he is a better fit for Langford.


What happened to Jeffery Taylor? This guy supposed to be defensive specialist at NBA level, but the guy barely contributes on either end.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#586 » by Sports Geek » Thu Feb 9, 2017 7:12 pm

UcanUwill wrote:What happened to Jeffery Taylor? This guy supposed to be defensive specialist at NBA level, but the guy barely contributes on either end.


He is supposed to be the guy defending scoring guards or the guy in front in a 1-3-1 zone defense (replacing Slaughter, who mastered that position), but I don't like him at all. He seems to be... lazy? I don't think he has the right attitude. Draper and him are living of being theorically defensive specialists, but I don't think they are. Taylor is supposed to be athletic, but he barely shows it. And Draper... He is just useless. He should be a stopper, but he only has quick hands. He makes too many wrong decissions on the defensive end. Things like going behind the screen when he is defending De Colo for example.

And yeah, Taylor has improved a bit in the offensive end with Doncic on the court, cutting to the basket and being found by Luka, but he was acquired to be a solid scorer.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#587 » by saphan » Thu Feb 9, 2017 7:23 pm

Some really nice assists :D
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#588 » by Goon » Thu Feb 9, 2017 8:14 pm

Damn it, forgot the game was in Russia and due to a slight time difference the tip off was sooner, ugh ...
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#589 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Feb 9, 2017 9:01 pm

SportsGuy8 wrote:Saying that "There is not a single NCAA Division I team that would not go 0-30 in the EuroLeague regular season. And I am 100% positive of that." is neither objective, truthful, nor realistic.

It's one thing to say that you don't think any NCAA team would be able to get a win, but to be "100% positive of that"? I don't think you realize what kind of strength differential would warrant that ...

You're basically being the same as those Team USA fanboys that kept saying over the summer that there's no way any other team has a chance and that they're going to cruise through the whole tournament, with no chance of anyone beating them. Yes, they ended up undefeated, but that was after a few serious scares ...


Take any top 5 ranked NCAA DI team and list their roster. Then we can compare it to any roster of any one of the 16 EuroLeague teams. Anyone that thinks it will even be close either isn't being serious, or they don't have basic basketball knowledge.

Bob8 wrote:This "prospect" thing is more or less wild guessing and always favors big and/or athletic guys, because this's the only thing we can foretell. Why nobody has predicted how good Curry will be? Because he doesn't fit in what prospects should look like. What has Doncic that nobody else has at this moment? He has already showed he can play with professionals in a good competition. He's one of the best players of Real Madrid and statistically one of the best players in Euroleague. Nobody else in the world did that at his age ever. To do that you have to have great talent. I heard fairytales that he is so good at his age because he has great body, like 25 years old man and that's the reason he is so good. His body is o.k., but to say he has advantage because of it over other Euroleague players is ridiculous. He will need years to develop body in what it should/could be. What else do we know about him? He's 6.8 and still growing. We heard he is too slow for Pg and that speed is more or less genetic. He surely can't run like Bolt, but some adjustments can be done on this field too. On the other hand, can 18 years 6.4 great prospect still grow?;) Leaving other considerations aside, would you rather have 6.8 pg or 6.4? Doncic is 17 years old, big for his position, great body frame, still growing, has great talent, great BBIQ, great court vision, playing in the best league player at his age possible could, is important member of the best team in Europe, he already showed he is a clutch player too, is intelligent, his father was good basketball player, so his genetics is great too,and maybe the most important thing, he has great work ethic and respect. Because of his great work ethic I'm 100% sure he will make big improvements in his physique and skills. What else do you possibly want from prospect? And now tell me why he's not better prospect than let's say Dirk. What had Dirk when he was 17 to be considered better prospect than Doncic?

P.s. It's highly unlikely Spanoulis would have play with torn muscle. He has some kind of muscle strain, grade 1 or maybe grade 2. He's going to play this week. His biggest problem is, he's getting old and try to play like he used to. He can't anymore. And then we have, 29% 3FG and http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=Single&seasoncode=E2016&cat=Turnovers&agg=PerMinute


When did Real Madrid become the best team in Europe? I've not seen anything so far to suggest they are better than teams like CSKA, Olympiacos, or Fener.

It's not highly unlikely Spanoulis has a muscle tear. It's a fact. The abductor muscles in his right thigh are torn, and he's been playing with that for months now. I don't think it's due to "old age", as the injury happened when someone's knee hit him in the thigh on a drive to the basket. Maybe "old age" makes you more susceptible to that kind of injury though.

UcanUwill wrote:Yeah, that was sweat, not the first time seeing him pulling of that. He spent most of the game with just 2 field goal attempts, just at the very end of the game he scored that one, and chucked 2 threes with the shotclock winding down when the game was already decided.

His defense against Langford tho was bad, couldn't stay in front of him at all.


He can't stay in front any EuroLeague guard with a decent handle. He is a clear point forward and not a point guard. That's how he would be used I think in any other EuroLeague team. Laso is the only EuroLeague coach that truly cares 0% about defense being played by his team.

He should be defending small forwards, but he's way too weak right now to do that. So he defends guards, which he cannot stay in front of. But Laso is OK with that, because he does not care about defense. But it's a better deal to have him guard guards, since he has size and length, which can at least help, whereas against small forwards, he has no size and length advantage, and he will just get bullied and overpowered in the low post by most of them.

It makes sense also of course on offense, as I said earlier, and as others pointed out also, he can just shoot over point guards on offense and pass over them, something he can't do against small forwards.

Laso is doing everything possible to hide a teenager on defense, mainly because again, he does not care about defense. But in any team that cares about defense, they won't have him guarding guards, considering man to man defense in open space, he can't stay in front of any of them in EuroLeague, as least I have not seen it so far.

He should be defending the 3 position, once he gets some strength.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#590 » by reanimator » Thu Feb 9, 2017 9:15 pm

The Fultz vs Doncic thing is just silly. Just stop. Fultz is a significantly better athlete who is way more creative as a ballhandler who has an elite pull-up game (Doncic has never shown one) and great body control/touch around the rim (Doncic is questionable here). Doncic is bigger, a more willing defender, flashes a post-up game and a better shooter from 3.

The best NCAA teams like UK and Duke have more length and athleticism than these Euro teams and play at a much greater speed. You can reference former NCAA stars and NBA guys in the Euroleagues but most of those guys were offensive guys who were defensive sieves at the end of rotations. The thing with the Euroleagues is that they're grown men so the strength/physicality is anything beyond the NCAA as well as the overall offensive skill level is another plane but thats it.

Its crazy how people really want to be dismissive of comparisons to guys like Batum, Hayward and Iguodala as if it were a diss and would rather toss out names like Lebron, Magic and Bird....a notion that would be absurd in just about any other prospects thread.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#591 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Feb 9, 2017 9:19 pm

jrob23 wrote:as POTUS says....."wrong!"

I'm not too high on Fultz myself but he'd easily be the best player in your league and unstoppable. Fultz and Doncic aren't remotely close as prospects. You are basing Doncic off of what he's able to do against scrubs who'd never play in the NBA and/or guys that wouldn't even get minutes on the better U.S. college teams. Of course your opinion is slanted. Of course, I'm also guilty of having a slanted opinion because I view your leagues as being extremely weak. If we had more evidence of smaller guys coming over and succeeding it'd help sway me. But so far it seems mainly big men that are able to translate their skills from Europe to the NBA. I can't remember many SG/SF making the leap so it's hard to believe at his present size and athleticism he can do it. If he was 6'9" I think it'd make a huge difference and even better if taller.


reanimator wrote:The best NCAA teams like UK and Duke have more length and athleticism than these Euro teams and play at a much greater speed. You can reference former NCAA stars and NBA guys in the Euroleague but most of those guys were offensive guys who were defensive sieves at the end of rotations. The thing with the Euroleague is that its a league of grown men so the strength/physicality is anything beyond the NCAA as well as the overall offensive skill level is another plane but thats it.


Next time, please don't forget to use the green font. Thanks.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#592 » by reanimator » Thu Feb 9, 2017 9:24 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
jrob23 wrote:as POTUS says....."wrong!"

I'm not too high on Fultz myself but he'd easily be the best player in your league and unstoppable. Fultz and Doncic aren't remotely close as prospects. You are basing Doncic off of what he's able to do against scrubs who'd never play in the NBA and/or guys that wouldn't even get minutes on the better U.S. college teams. Of course your opinion is slanted. Of course, I'm also guilty of having a slanted opinion because I view your leagues as being extremely weak. If we had more evidence of smaller guys coming over and succeeding it'd help sway me. But so far it seems mainly big men that are able to translate their skills from Europe to the NBA. I can't remember many SG/SF making the leap so it's hard to believe at his present size and athleticism he can do it. If he was 6'9" I think it'd make a huge difference and even better if taller.


reanimator wrote:The best NCAA teams like UK and Duke have more length and athleticism than these Euro teams and play at a much greater speed. You can reference former NCAA stars and NBA guys in the Euroleague but most of those guys were offensive guys who were defensive sieves at the end of rotations. The thing with the Euroleague is that its a league of grown men so the strength/physicality is anything beyond the NCAA as well as the overall offensive skill level is another plane but thats it.


Next time, please don't forget to use the green font. Thanks.


Its really not debatable.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#593 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Feb 9, 2017 9:26 pm

reanimator wrote:Its really not debatable.


You are going to have to prove your assertions here when they get that outlandish. So go ahead and prove that Kentucky and Duke are longer and more athletic and play at a much greater speed than any team in EuroLeague.

I am calling you on that right now. Prove it. Otherwise, please remember to use the green font. Thanks.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#594 » by reanimator » Thu Feb 9, 2017 9:39 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
reanimator wrote:Its really not debatable.


You are going to have to prove your assertions here when they get that outlandish. So go ahead and prove that Kentucky and Duke are longer and more athletic and play at a much greater speed than any team in EuroLeague.

I am calling you on that right now. Prove it. Otherwise, please remember to use the green font. Thanks.


No thank you
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#595 » by Kentavicius » Thu Feb 9, 2017 10:06 pm



What an amazing vision, he controls every game. Though he suffered defending Langford in the 4th quarter.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#596 » by Kentavicius » Thu Feb 9, 2017 10:09 pm

Sports Geek wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:What happened to Jeffery Taylor? This guy supposed to be defensive specialist at NBA level, but the guy barely contributes on either end.


He is supposed to be the guy defending scoring guards or the guy in front in a 1-3-1 zone defense (replacing Slaughter, who mastered that position), but I don't like him at all. He seems to be... lazy? I don't think he has the right attitude. Draper and him are living of being theorically defensive specialists, but I don't think they are. Taylor is supposed to be athletic, but he barely shows it. And Draper... He is just useless. He should be a stopper, but he only has quick hands. He makes too many wrong decissions on the defensive end. Things like going behind the screen when he is defending De Colo for example.

And yeah, Taylor has improved a bit in the offensive end with Doncic on the court, cutting to the basket and being found by Luka, but he was acquired to be a solid scorer.

Taylor has been really solid in the last two months. He is, behind Rudy, the best defender of the team.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#597 » by Bob8 » Thu Feb 9, 2017 10:19 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
SportsGuy8 wrote:Saying that "There is not a single NCAA Division I team that would not go 0-30 in the EuroLeague regular season. And I am 100% positive of that." is neither objective, truthful, nor realistic.

It's one thing to say that you don't think any NCAA team would be able to get a win, but to be "100% positive of that"? I don't think you realize what kind of strength differential would warrant that ...

You're basically being the same as those Team USA fanboys that kept saying over the summer that there's no way any other team has a chance and that they're going to cruise through the whole tournament, with no chance of anyone beating them. Yes, they ended up undefeated, but that was after a few serious scares ...


Take any top 5 ranked NCAA DI team and list their roster. Then we can compare it to any roster of any one of the 16 EuroLeague teams. Anyone that thinks it will even be close either isn't being serious, or they don't have basic basketball knowledge.

Bob8 wrote:This "prospect" thing is more or less wild guessing and always favors big and/or athletic guys, because this's the only thing we can foretell. Why nobody has predicted how good Curry will be? Because he doesn't fit in what prospects should look like. What has Doncic that nobody else has at this moment? He has already showed he can play with professionals in a good competition. He's one of the best players of Real Madrid and statistically one of the best players in Euroleague. Nobody else in the world did that at his age ever. To do that you have to have great talent. I heard fairytales that he is so good at his age because he has great body, like 25 years old man and that's the reason he is so good. His body is o.k., but to say he has advantage because of it over other Euroleague players is ridiculous. He will need years to develop body in what it should/could be. What else do we know about him? He's 6.8 and still growing. We heard he is too slow for Pg and that speed is more or less genetic. He surely can't run like Bolt, but some adjustments can be done on this field too. On the other hand, can 18 years 6.4 great prospect still grow?;) Leaving other considerations aside, would you rather have 6.8 pg or 6.4? Doncic is 17 years old, big for his position, great body frame, still growing, has great talent, great BBIQ, great court vision, playing in the best league player at his age possible could, is important member of the best team in Europe, he already showed he is a clutch player too, is intelligent, his father was good basketball player, so his genetics is great too,and maybe the most important thing, he has great work ethic and respect. Because of his great work ethic I'm 100% sure he will make big improvements in his physique and skills. What else do you possibly want from prospect? And now tell me why he's not better prospect than let's say Dirk. What had Dirk when he was 17 to be considered better prospect than Doncic?

P.s. It's highly unlikely Spanoulis would have play with torn muscle. He has some kind of muscle strain, grade 1 or maybe grade 2. He's going to play this week. His biggest problem is, he's getting old and try to play like he used to. He can't anymore. And then we have, 29% 3FG and http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=Single&seasoncode=E2016&cat=Turnovers&agg=PerMinute


When did Real Madrid become the best team in Europe? I've not seen anything so far to suggest they are better than teams like CSKA, Olympiacos, or Fener.

It's not highly unlikely Spanoulis has a muscle tear. It's a fact. The abductor muscles in his right thigh are torn, and he's been playing with that for months now. I don't think it's due to "old age", as the injury happened when someone's knee hit him in the thigh on a drive to the basket. Maybe "old age" makes you more susceptible to that kind of injury though.

UcanUwill wrote:Yeah, that was sweat, not the first time seeing him pulling of that. He spent most of the game with just 2 field goal attempts, just at the very end of the game he scored that one, and chucked 2 threes with the shotclock winding down when the game was already decided.

His defense against Langford tho was bad, couldn't stay in front of him at all.


He can't stay in front any EuroLeague guard with a decent handle. He is a clear point forward and not a point guard. That's how he would be used I think in any other EuroLeague team. Laso is the only EuroLeague coach that truly cares 0% about defense being played by his team.

He should be defending small forwards, but he's way too weak right now to do that. So he defends guards, which he cannot stay in front of. But Laso is OK with that, because he does not care about defense. But it's a better deal to have him guard guards, since he has size and length, which can at least help, whereas against small forwards, he has no size and length advantage, and he will just get bullied and overpowered in the low post by most of them.

It makes sense also of course on offense, as I said earlier, and as others pointed out also, he can just shoot over point guards on offense and pass over them, something he can't do against small forwards.

Laso is doing everything possible to hide a teenager on defense, mainly because again, he does not care about defense. But in any team that cares about defense, they won't have him guarding guards, considering man to man defense in open space, he can't stay in front of any of them in EuroLeague, as least I have not seen it so far.

He should be defending the 3 position, once he gets some strength.


Just answer to my simple question. I will repeat. What had Dirk when he was 17 years old, that made him better prospect than Doncic?
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#598 » by Sir Psycho Sexy » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:24 am

reanimator wrote:The Fultz vs Doncic thing is just silly. Just stop. Fultz is a significantly better athlete who is way more creative as a ballhandler who has an elite pull-up game (Doncic has never shown one) and great body control/touch around the rim (Doncic is questionable here). Doncic is bigger, a more willing defender, flashes a post-up game and a better shooter from 3.

The best NCAA teams like UK and Duke have more length and athleticism than these Euro teams and play at a much greater speed. You can reference former NCAA stars and NBA guys in the Euroleagues but most of those guys were offensive guys who were defensive sieves at the end of rotations. The thing with the Euroleagues is that they're grown men so the strength/physicality is anything beyond the NCAA as well as the overall offensive skill level is another plane but thats it.

Its crazy how people really want to be dismissive of comparisons to guys like Batum, Hayward and Iguodala as if it were a diss and would rather toss out names like Lebron, Magic and Bird....a notion that would be absurd in just about any other prospects thread.

Euroleague teams play games against NBA in pre season and they match up evenly more and more in the last few years. Actually I won't be lazy and I'll count the score since 2012. 17-6 for NBA


Can you imagine NCAA teams winning 6 of 23 games against NBA teams? I can bet my life on it that they would win like 1 game by accident.

Also love how you said: "The thing with the Euroleagues is that they're grown men so the strength/physicality is anything beyond the NCAA as well as the overall offensive skill level is another plane but thats it." so basically they are better defenders, better offensive players but NCAA teams are still better?
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#599 » by reanimator » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:49 am

Sir Psycho Sexy wrote:
reanimator wrote:The Fultz vs Doncic thing is just silly. Just stop. Fultz is a significantly better athlete who is way more creative as a ballhandler who has an elite pull-up game (Doncic has never shown one) and great body control/touch around the rim (Doncic is questionable here). Doncic is bigger, a more willing defender, flashes a post-up game and a better shooter from 3.

The best NCAA teams like UK and Duke have more length and athleticism than these Euro teams and play at a much greater speed. You can reference former NCAA stars and NBA guys in the Euroleagues but most of those guys were offensive guys who were defensive sieves at the end of rotations. The thing with the Euroleagues is that they're grown men so the strength/physicality is anything beyond the NCAA as well as the overall offensive skill level is another plane but thats it.

Its crazy how people really want to be dismissive of comparisons to guys like Batum, Hayward and Iguodala as if it were a diss and would rather toss out names like Lebron, Magic and Bird....a notion that would be absurd in just about any other prospects thread.

Euroleague teams play games against NBA in pre season and they match up evenly more and more in the last few years. Actually I won't be lazy and I'll count the score since 2012. 17-6 for NBA


Can you imagine NCAA teams winning 6 of 23 games against NBA teams? I can bet my life on it that they would win like 1 game by accident.

Also love how you said: "The thing with the Euroleagues is that they're grown men so the strength/physicality is anything beyond the NCAA as well as the overall offensive skill level is another plane but thats it." so basically they are better defenders, better offensive players but NCAA teams are still better?


No not better defenders, less length, less athleticism, less speed.

And no, NBA and Euro teams aren't anywhere close to matching up evenly because of some half-assed preseason games.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#600 » by Sir Psycho Sexy » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:44 am

reanimator wrote:
Sir Psycho Sexy wrote:
reanimator wrote:The Fultz vs Doncic thing is just silly. Just stop. Fultz is a significantly better athlete who is way more creative as a ballhandler who has an elite pull-up game (Doncic has never shown one) and great body control/touch around the rim (Doncic is questionable here). Doncic is bigger, a more willing defender, flashes a post-up game and a better shooter from 3.

The best NCAA teams like UK and Duke have more length and athleticism than these Euro teams and play at a much greater speed. You can reference former NCAA stars and NBA guys in the Euroleagues but most of those guys were offensive guys who were defensive sieves at the end of rotations. The thing with the Euroleagues is that they're grown men so the strength/physicality is anything beyond the NCAA as well as the overall offensive skill level is another plane but thats it.

Its crazy how people really want to be dismissive of comparisons to guys like Batum, Hayward and Iguodala as if it were a diss and would rather toss out names like Lebron, Magic and Bird....a notion that would be absurd in just about any other prospects thread.

Euroleague teams play games against NBA in pre season and they match up evenly more and more in the last few years. Actually I won't be lazy and I'll count the score since 2012. 17-6 for NBA


Can you imagine NCAA teams winning 6 of 23 games against NBA teams? I can bet my life on it that they would win like 1 game by accident.

Also love how you said: "The thing with the Euroleagues is that they're grown men so the strength/physicality is anything beyond the NCAA as well as the overall offensive skill level is another plane but thats it." so basically they are better defenders, better offensive players but NCAA teams are still better?


No not better defenders, less length, less athleticism, less speed.

And no, NBA and Euro teams aren't anywhere close to matching up evenly because of some half-assed preseason games.

I said that "more and more evenly" that percentage against Euroleague teams was like 90% before but can you imagine NCAA beating NBA team in half arsed game?

Can you imagine any team beating even Brooklyn?

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