Elfrid Payton

[Dukenukem23]

how is he a liability on offense? not a 3pt threat now, but excellent at the basket. scores better than Rondo ever did.

Any player without any sort of jumpshot is a liability and his passing is not good enough to makeup for it like Rondos is.

so even though he had more assists on a worse team in college, his passing isnt as good as Rondo's?

I'm talking about how he projects as a pro, not what happened in college. Lol.

[tiderulz]

Any player without any sort of jumpshot is a liability and his passing is not good enough to makeup for it like Rondos is.

so even though he had more assists on a worse team in college, his passing isnt as good as Rondo's?

I'm talking about how he projects as a pro, not what happened in college. Lol.

okay. But as Rondo shows, players can get better. and he is the player you used.

[GREENE1148]

What is your post based upon some secret "benchmarks" that you don't want to reveal this time?

They both had fairly average to above average measurements across the board in combine measurements for their position, like Elfrid Payton, and according to your analysis, that equates to an ordinary NBA athlete...

[Dukenukem23]

so even though he had more assists on a worse team in college, his passing isnt as good as Rondo's?

I'm talking about how he projects as a pro, not what happened in college. Lol.

okay. But as Rondo shows, players can get better. and he is the player you used.

It's my opinion that Payton never becomes as good of a passer in the NBA than Rondo. I don't think he has near the court vision and Bball IQ. When I make comparisons with other players it's based on how they will do in the NBA, college stats hold comparatively insignificant value to me. Length, Bball IQ, court vision, shooting ability, defense, ball handling skills all hold more value than a college stat. Rondo is an example I used because of the constant comparisons I have heard of the two.

[SelfishPlayer]

What is your post based upon some secret "benchmarks" that you don't want to reveal this time?

They both had fairly average to above average measurements across the board in combine measurements for their position, like Elfrid Payton, and according to your analysis, that equates to an ordinary NBA athlete...

Russell Westbrook ran a 3.08 sprint at the combine. There is nothing average about that. DX states that average for a PG is 3.21... Eldrige ran a 3.23, so according to DX he is below average...

[GREENE1148]

It's interesting looking at how he measured out in Chicago versus his numbers from Team USA. They had him with a 8'5" standing reach and now only 8'2.5" a year later and yet had him with an inch longer wingspan (6'8" to 6'7"). How does stuff like that happen?

My best guess is that they did the standing reach measurement at the combine without shoes and at the USA camp it was with shoes? The difference was about 2-2.5" for most of the players at that particular camp and the combine (Aaron Gordon being the exception as he actually grew significantly, not surprising given how young he was). This wouldn't surprise me, given that would inflate the vertical leap numbers of all the participants by 2+ inches, which bring a great deal of attention to the NBA draft.

Either that or the tape/guy reading it was straight up wrong.

[GREENE1148]

What is your post based upon some secret "benchmarks" that you don't want to reveal this time?

They both had fairly average to above average measurements across the board in combine measurements for their position, like Elfrid Payton, and according to your analysis, that equates to an ordinary NBA athlete...

Russell Westbrook ran a 3.08 sprint at the combine. There is nothing average about that. DX states that average for a PG is 3.21... Eldrige ran a 3.23, so according to DX he is below average...

Slower than Raymond Felton though, certainly doesn't seem like he could possibly be an elite athlete.

[Old Man Game]

It's interesting looking at how he measured out in Chicago versus his numbers from Team USA. They had him with a 8'5" standing reach and now only 8'2.5" a year later and yet had him with an inch longer wingspan (6'8" to 6'7"). How does stuff like that happen?

My best guess is that they did the standing reach measurement at the combine without shoes and at the USA camp it was with shoes? The difference was about 2-2.5" for most of the players at that particular camp and the combine (Aaron Gordon being the exception as he actually grew significantly, not surprising given how young he was). This wouldn't surprise me, given that would inflate the vertical leap numbers of all the participants by 2+ inches, which bring a great deal of attention to the NBA draft.

Either that or the tape/guy reading it was straight up wrong.

I thought I'd heard the standing reach number was done in shoes at the combine but I may be wrong about that.

[GREENE1148]

It's interesting looking at how he measured out in Chicago versus his numbers from Team USA. They had him with a 8'5" standing reach and now only 8'2.5" a year later and yet had him with an inch longer wingspan (6'8" to 6'7"). How does stuff like that happen?

My best guess is that they did the standing reach measurement at the combine without shoes and at the USA camp it was with shoes? The difference was about 2-2.5" for most of the players at that particular camp and the combine (Aaron Gordon being the exception as he actually grew significantly, not surprising given how young he was). This wouldn't surprise me, given that would inflate the vertical leap numbers of all the participants by 2+ inches, which bring a great deal of attention to the NBA draft.

Either that or the tape/guy reading it was straight up wrong.

I thought I'd heard the standing reach number was done in shoes at the combine but I may be wrong about that.

Well you would assume so, it's only logical, I couldn't watch the combine this year (wasn't on NBA.tv) so I didn't see it being done (not sure they show it anyway)... but other than the tape/tools being incorrect, there's not many other explanations.

[AgentZer0]

It'll be interesting to see where he goes because with the depth at the point guard position, it isn't a need for most teams. According to reports, his jump shot looks much better than it did at UL-Lafayette. The common comparison for Payton is Rajon Rondo, and his tape does look Rondo-esque.

There's a full scouting report up at http://freeagentzero.com/2014/06/24/nba ... id-payton/ with strengths and weaknesses and more on how he'll translate at the pro level. There's also tons of other stuff on other prospects and a mock draft.

[basketballRob]

As for not dominating the weak conference? Fairly sure he was the first college player to have 600pts 200rebs and 200asts in a season since Penny Hardaway, if that's not dominant enough, I'm not sure what would be.

That's false. DeAndre Kane produced the same 600, 200, and 200 during this past season and did it in the Big 12, so should he be a 1st round pick too? Evan Turner was on pace to do it but missed some games due to injury. He did it on a per game average against Big 10 competition, how has his NBA career turned out?

Payton is on a different level as an athlete than the guys you just listed, and he's only 20 years old. There is no reason Smart should be picked over EP. Elfrid led his team to the tournament and almost led them to a win against Creighton, he's a better leader than Smart. Also, from a pure physical standpoint Payton is the better prospect on offense and defense. He's also a pure point, he had a late growth spurt while in college which made him the prospect he is. He's much more of a pure pg than Smart; Smart is an undersized 2 who plays bully ball and lacks the vision and patience to play the PG position in the nba. Payton is the best P&R PG in the draft.

Good post!

[basketballRob]

so even though he had more assists on a worse team in college, his passing isnt as good as Rondo's?

I'm talking about how he projects as a pro, not what happened in college. Lol.

okay. But as Rondo shows, players can get better. and he is the player you used.

I think if Payton's teammates hit their wide open shots he could've put up some amazing stats in SL, but 12.7 per mpg was pretty good.

[tiderulz]

okay. But as Rondo shows, players can get better. and he is the player you used.

It's my opinion that Payton never becomes as good of a passer in the NBA than Rondo. I don't think he has near the court vision and Bball IQ. When I make comparisons with other players it's based on how they will do in the NBA, college stats hold comparatively insignificant value to me. Length, Bball IQ, court vision, shooting ability, defense, ball handling skills all hold more value than a college stat. Rondo is an example I used because of the constant comparisons I have heard of the two.

granted its summer league and he also hasnt had a chance to build any chemistry, but he still showed amazing passing. Still believe he wont be a good passer?

[Dukenukem23]

okay. But as Rondo shows, players can get better. and he is the player you used.

It's my opinion that Payton never becomes as good of a passer in the NBA than Rondo. I don't think he has near the court vision and Bball IQ. When I make comparisons with other players it's based on how they will do in the NBA, college stats hold comparatively insignificant value to me. Length, Bball IQ, court vision, shooting ability, defense, ball handling skills all hold more value than a college stat. Rondo is an example I used because of the constant comparisons I have heard of the two.

granted its summer league and he also hasnt had a chance to build any chemistry, but he still showed amazing passing. Still believe he wont be a good passer?

Where in that statement did I say he won't be a good passer? After Chris Paul, Rondo is arguably the best passer in the game and I stand behind my statement saying Payton won't be as good as Rondo.

Also, Dude.....it's summer league

[tiderulz]

It's my opinion that Payton never becomes as good of a passer in the NBA than Rondo. I don't think he has near the court vision and Bball IQ. When I make comparisons with other players it's based on how they will do in the NBA, college stats hold comparatively insignificant value to me. Length, Bball IQ, court vision, shooting ability, defense, ball handling skills all hold more value than a college stat. Rondo is an example I used because of the constant comparisons I have heard of the two.

granted its summer league and he also hasnt had a chance to build any chemistry, but he still showed amazing passing. Still believe he wont be a good passer?

Where in that statement did I say he won't be a good passer? After Chris Paul, Rondo is arguably the best passer in the game and I stand behind my statement saying Payton won't be as good as Rondo.

Also, Dude.....it's summer league

well, we have years to see who is right

[sam_I_am]

So far looks like third best player drafted to me. Obviously ther are a lot of I completes as haven't seen Randle, Exum, McDermott and Vegas is just starting.

Watching Wiggins and Parker it is easy to see why they were considered class of draft. Compared to Gordon, Smart and Vonleh - the next tier - the talent gap is enormous - just as everybody predicted before draft.

[Upperclass]

Not being as good of a passer as Rondo isnt an indictment imo. Rondo's passing and IQ is extremely rare. Its what makes him such an amazing NBA player.. he's just smarter than everyone else. I think Payton is raw skill.. Rondo is just a natural.

[MagicFan32]

LIRL paytons court vision and passing is off the charts that much is apparent

[MCDubbin]

I think he will become the best pg in this draft. I don't really consider Exum a PG, more of a combo guard but if I have to include him, then I would say Elfrid is the second best prospect.

[babyjax13]

I think he will become the best pg in this draft. I don't really consider Exum a PG, more of a combo guard but if I have to include him, then I would say Elfrid is the second best prospect.

Watch Exum play, he is clearly a point guard and a rare talent. Payton looks really good too, I think both teams are happy so far with what they have seen from their prospects.