Lonzo Ball

[clyde21]

How does Ball compare to Exum as a prospect?

[Marcus]

How does Ball compare to Exum as a prospect?

much better.

better shooter, tighter handle, can go either way, I think defensively they're about the same with Lonzo having great off ball instinct, better vision, better passer, better athlete, not sure if Lonzo is faster and I think Dante has a quicker first step with more of a mindset to drive for the finish but outside of that Lonzo is better in every way.

[Chuck Everett]

Lonzo is a point guard, Exum is someone we were told is a point guard, although he can only dribble with one hand.

[No-Man]

I dont see Lonzo as a better athlete, he is clearly worse in terms of agility, speed, same in terms of defense, and Dante is clearly the better dribbler even if his handle is not tight.

[LonZoBallin]

Lonzo Ball is an athletic Jason Kidd. I like to think of him as a mix between another guy in that draft, Grant Hill and Jason Kidd. I've always had his ceiling as an Athletic Jason Kidd who could shoot the 3 right away.

I know this is crazy expectations but look at my name sheeet

[No-Man]

Lonzo Ball is an athletic Jason Kidd. I like to think of him as a mix between another guy in that draft, Grant Hill and Jason Kidd. I've always had his ceiling as an Athletic Jason Kidd who could shoot the 3 right away.

I know this is crazy expectations but look at my name sheeet

Kidd was a much, much better athlete than Ball, it's not even an argument
Kidd could get to the rack at will during his athletic prime, Lonzo doesnt even challenge college defenses there.

[LonZoBallin]

Lonzo Ball is an athletic Jason Kidd. I like to think of him as a mix between another guy in that draft, Grant Hill and Jason Kidd. I've always had his ceiling as an Athletic Jason Kidd who could shoot the 3 right away.

I know this is crazy expectations but look at my name sheeet

Kidd was a much, much better athlete than Ball, it's not even an argument
Kidd could get to the rack at will during his athletic prime, Lonzo doesnt even challenge college defenses there.

No way! Lonzo is the superior athlete by far. You'll see when their combine #'s are posted.

Jason Kidd was just built in that Mark Jackson way where he's great at change of speeds and misdirection. No where near the ahtlete Lonzo is. Kidd could probably run just as fast with the ball as he could without, but not a super athlete. never was. Just a superior mental player who thought the game at an unmatched level. Was always in the right place.

Let me see Kidd's top 5 dunks of all time. I know jumping isn't everything, but it's a factor in how good of an athlete you are.

[ItsThatEasy]

Lonzo Ball is an athletic Jason Kidd. I like to think of him as a mix between another guy in that draft, Grant Hill and Jason Kidd. I've always had his ceiling as an Athletic Jason Kidd who could shoot the 3 right away.

I know this is crazy expectations but look at my name sheeet

Kidd was a much, much better athlete than Ball, it's not even an argument
Kidd could get to the rack at will during his athletic prime, Lonzo doesnt even challenge college defenses there.

No way! Lonzo is the superior athlete by far. You'll see when their combine #'s are posted.

Jason Kidd was just built in that Mark Jackson way where he's great at change of speeds and misdirection. No where near the ahtlete Lonzo is. Kidd could probably run just as fast with the ball as he could without, but not a super athlete. never was. Just a superior mental player who thought the game at an unmatched level. Was always in the right place.

Let me see Kidd's top 5 dunks of all time. I know jumping isn't everything, but it's a factor in how good of an athlete you are.

Lol Kidd could execute every dunk Ball has done in college so far and he was faster in a straight line along with great quickness and agility.

Rookie Kidd was a freak athlete, calling Lonzo "superior by far" is ridiculous.

[Upperclass]

Jason Kidd was a ridiculous athlete.. he just played with pace in the nba, but dude was probably one of the most athletic points ot play in the league. And dunking ability is a horrendous barometer for how athletic someone is.. Jamal Crawford cant dunk for sht and he is still one of the quickest, fastest, most agile players in he league.. even at 35

[Duke4life831]

Lonzo Ball is an athletic Jason Kidd. I like to think of him as a mix between another guy in that draft, Grant Hill and Jason Kidd. I've always had his ceiling as an Athletic Jason Kidd who could shoot the 3 right away.

I know this is crazy expectations but look at my name sheeet

Kidd was a much, much better athlete than Ball, it's not even an argument
Kidd could get to the rack at will during his athletic prime, Lonzo doesnt even challenge college defenses there.

Let's not act like Kidd was attacking the rim at will in college. Kidd was putting up 16ppg while taking 5 3s a game as a sophomore. Ball is putting up 14 ppg while taking 5 3s a game. I think they're very similar athletes. I don't think one is really superior to the other. Kidd was stronger while Ball is taller. Ball plays the game very very similar to Kidd. Ball's jumper is just more advanced at this stage of the game than Kidd.

Just to compare both their freshman years

Ball: 14/5/9 and 2.7 TOs on 55/43/73 shooting numbers

Kidd: 13/5/7 and 3.9 TOs on 46/28/65 shooting.

Now Ball's season just started and you gotta think his efficiency numbers are going to take a hit in conference play. But again style of play watching him is almost identical to Kidd, including athleticism

[HeartBreakKid]

I'm thinking Ball is like Kidd as well, but I need to see him play some more.

[peachbucket]

Jason Kidd was a ridiculous athlete.. he just played with pace in the nba, but dude was probably one of the most athletic points ot play in the league. And dunking ability is a horrendous barometer for how athletic someone is.. Jamal Crawford cant dunk for sht and he is still one of the quickest, fastest, most agile players in he league.. even at 35

I remember Kidd having close to a 40 inch vert when coming out of Cal.

[sikma42]

I'm not seeing Jason Kidd at all. He is sloppy with the ball at times doesn't see the floor as well at the same age or have that feel for the game. It's not a knock, JKidd is a very rare player. If he was that good he would be the runaway #1 pick.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[peachbucket]

I'm not seeing Jason Kidd at all. He is sloppy with the ball at times doesn't see the floor as well at the same age or have that feel for the game. It's not a knock, JKidd is a very rare player. If he was that good he would be the runaway #1 pick.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I don't understand how you can question his feel for the game...it's absolutely elite. He makes the correct read/pass like 95% of the time just like Steve Nash...it's like having a high level coach on the floor.

He may mishandle the ball once in a while but he is far from sloppy...his assist/to ratio is elite and much better than even Kidd's sophomore year at Cal.

[Gil]

He isn't that good at all. Sloppy handle, can't get to the rim consistently, horrendous jumpshot, weak defender & most of his assists are easy passes to open 3 point shooters.

[sikma42]

I'm not seeing Jason Kidd at all. He is sloppy with the ball at times doesn't see the floor as well at the same age or have that feel for the game. It's not a knock, JKidd is a very rare player. If he was that good he would be the runaway #1 pick.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I don't understand how you can question his feel for the game...it's absolutely elite. He makes the correct read/pass like 95% of the time just like Steve Nash...it's like having a high level coach on the floor.

He may mishandle the ball once in a while but he is far from sloppy...his assist/to ratio is elite and much better than even Kidd's sophomore year at Cal.

I didnt say he had a bad feel for the game. I said in a comparison to JKIdd, he falls short in those categories. He doesn't have a poor feel for the game, but its not JKidd. There are at different levels in those regards at the same age. Just like at the same Rubio was also ahead of him in those categories.

[HotelVitale]

Lonzo Ball is an athletic Jason Kidd. I like to think of him as a mix between another guy in that draft, Grant Hill and Jason Kidd. I've always had his ceiling as an Athletic Jason Kidd who could shoot the 3 right away. I know this is crazy expectations but look at my name sheeet

Kidd was a much, much better athlete than Ball, it's not even an argument
Kidd could get to the rack at will during his athletic prime, Lonzo doesnt even challenge college defenses there.

It's not an argument. Ball can jump reasonably high but otherwise he's not a good NBA athlete. Quickness isn't great, handle isn't amazing, strength obviously not a strength, etc.

I'm also not sold on his shot creation so far; he obviously has tremendous poise and great court awareness, but I'm not sure he'll be able to create in the NBA. A lot of his great passing moments remind me of Kendall Marshall at UNC--he's smart and patient and uses his size to get to good spots, but in the NBA you need to read and go. Even a slow-mo player like Chris Paul moves much faster than I think Ball would be comfortable with.

Overall, having a hard time getting a read on him as a pro. I'm not floored by his size-athleticism package but you can't dispute the results. My big worry with him is that he's just ahead of the curve mentally--he's playing like a 24 year-old in terms of his awareness and IQ, but once other players catch up with him, he won't have special enough raw tools to be a great NBA player.

[NatiboyB]

Lonzo Ball is an athletic Jason Kidd. I like to think of him as a mix between another guy in that draft, Grant Hill and Jason Kidd. I've always had his ceiling as an Athletic Jason Kidd who could shoot the 3 right away.

I know this is crazy expectations but look at my name sheeet

An athletic Jason Kidd is a legendary HOF player. If that is his ceiling I think that mandates him to be a 1st overall pick.

[madmaxmedia]

Overall, having a hard time getting a read on him as a pro. I'm not floored by his size-athleticism package but you can't dispute the results. My big worry with him is that he's just ahead of the curve mentally--he's playing like a 24 year-old in terms of his awareness and IQ, but once other players catch up with him, he won't have special enough raw tools to be a great NBA player.

I think all your concerns are valid. But regarding his IQ, I think we've seen enough shoot-first point guards in college and the NBA that don't expand significantly beyond that, to see that really smart college players will typically be really smart pro players (other weaknesses aside.) I am projecting from a small sample size so far, but I think his IQ and awareness are always going to stand out. I think at the very least he'll be a very good pro, which basically justifies a top 5 to 8 pick (or maybe higher depending on how season plays out.)

For sure we haven't seen enough to get a good read on his athleticism, as well as his handle. The good thing for him is that he's got good size. But I think this season plays out totally differently if he went somewhere else and Bryce Alford was UCLA's starting PG (who is a credible college PG.) TJ Leaf and Thomas Welsh are shooting 67.4% and 57.3% from the floor right now. Those numbers are not sustainable, but they're not an accident either (Leaf is a great freshman but Welsh is largely a good, serviceable college big.)

I think his worst case scenario will be poor man's Jason Kidd (which can represent a wide range depending on how 'poor'.) His upside will be of a Jason Kidd-like player, the kind that will maximize his team, and can be MVP of a game while scoring only 4 points.

One thing I love about basketball is that you can have 2 great Pac-10 PG's in Markelle Furtz and Lonzo Ball, both should end up MVP's of their teams, and yet do it in totally different ways.

[Cammo101]

Ball's athleticism isn't near what some are saying here, but his skill and passing level are really high. He's a guy who hides some of his athletic shortcomings with skill.